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Soldering Tiny Phone Charger Wires

02/16/2016 2:10 PM

I am pretty new to the world of electrical engineering and have been working on some simple projects to get more familiar with the basics. I tried to wire a Sparkfun Femtobuck current driver to an LED powered by a phone charger supplying 5 volts. (The LED needs 3.4, the driver needs 2). Even though the power supply is good, once it's soldered to the driver no current gets through to the other end. I successfully used the driver with a 12V power supply to run 3 of the same LED's.

I thought the math was pretty straightforward.. and though I'm not great at soldering yet I think I did the job correctly. The wires in the charger are incredibly thin.. is it possible the problem is something to do with that?

Any ideas or advice would be great.. this thing is driving me nuts!

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#1

Re: Soldering tiny phone charger wires

02/16/2016 2:13 PM

Have you got the LED round the right way.
Buy a cheap digital multimeter you can use it to check continuity, volts and current...

The most important thing when starting out in electronics (or just about anything) is simplicity. Prove the simple things work first. IMO there are too many fancy ICs used by people who don't understand the basics, when they'd learn more with a few discrete components.

Del

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Soldering tiny phone charger wires

02/16/2016 2:16 PM

The LED is going the right way. I do have a multimeter, that's how I can tell no current is getting through the driver.. am wondering if I did something wrong on the other end or if the driver isn't getting enough power from the source somehow.

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#3

Re: Soldering tiny phone charger wires

02/16/2016 2:20 PM
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#4
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Re: Soldering tiny phone charger wires

02/16/2016 2:50 PM

Yep, that's the one..

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#5

Re: Soldering tiny phone charger wires

02/16/2016 2:56 PM

The Femtobuck needs at least 6 volts. Also, your phone charger may not supply enough current.
https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/femtobuck-constant-current-led-driver-hookup-guide-v12

"FemtoBuck Overview

Connecting the FemtoBuck

For the version 1.2 of the FemtoBuck, we've increased the voltage ratings on the parts to allow the input voltage to cover the full 36V range of the AL8805. Note that the supply voltage must be at least 6.0V, and should be at least 2-3V higher than the forward voltage of the LED(s) to be driven."

Your power supply needs to supply both enough voltage and current for the application.

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#12
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Re: Soldering tiny phone charger wires

02/17/2016 5:36 AM

GA

I think there's a clue in the original post:-

supplying 5 volts. (The LED needs 3.4, the driver needs 2).

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#23
In reply to #5

Re: Soldering tiny phone charger wires

02/17/2016 1:02 PM

Okay, this was a silly mistake. Thanks for helping me catch it though!

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#24
In reply to #5

Re: Soldering tiny phone charger wires

02/17/2016 1:06 PM

Thanks Rixter, I feel a little silly but yep, there it is plain as day!

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#6

Re: Soldering tiny phone charger wires

02/16/2016 3:03 PM

There is a possibility you now have a dead LED. The voltage vs current curve (I-V) for an LED is a very non-linear curve. To protect the LED from being over driven a current limiting device (resistor) is typically in series with the LED.

That 5 volt phone charger may produce considerably more voltage when not connected to the battery it is designed to charge. If you did not have a current limiter then the LED may be dead.

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#7
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Re: Soldering tiny phone charger wires

02/16/2016 7:31 PM
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#9
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Re: Soldering tiny phone charger wires

02/17/2016 3:05 AM

GA

My thoughts too.....

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#8

Re: Soldering Tiny Phone Charger Wires

02/17/2016 2:24 AM

There could be a couple things wrong. Here is where I'd start troubleshooting:

1. Check for cold solder joints. Use your ohmmeter to test for conductivity on both sides of the solder joint.

2. If all solder joints are good, then you may have burned out the diode (too much heat). Check resistance both directions (+ to - and - to +). You should have 0 Ohms one way and an open circuit the other way.

3. If the diode is good, then check your power supply. When you turn the supply on, check the voltage at the output to make sure you have 5V. The power supply may not provide enough power, so when a load is placed on the supply, you could get a large voltage drop - not enough voltage to run the circuit.

Soldering tip: Here's what I learned to do when soldering. Some people try to solder by putting the solder on the tip of the iron, then trying to get the solder from the iron to the wires. This results in cold solder joints - not a good thing. Try this instead. Tin the tip of the soldering iron with a thin coat of solder. Then touch the iron to the wire and let it heat up. Touch the solder to the wire (not the iron) and when it begins to melt, pull the iron away from the wire. You should get a nice and shiny solder joint. If it doesn't flow well, touch the iron to the wire, but don't get it so hot that the solder loses it's shine - you've overcooked the solder and you should clean it and start over.

If you're soldering something that can't take too much heat, then use a heat sink between the soldering iron and the component. You can use an alligator clip or some other sort of clip that's made of metal. The heat will transfer from the wire to the heat sink and not to the component. Always use rosin core solder or the new water based version. NEVER use plumbing solder on electronics - it'll damage the wire, board and components.

I hope this helps.

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#10
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Re: Soldering Tiny Phone Charger Wires

02/17/2016 4:17 AM

I'm regularly amazed at how our electronics guy solders components that are barely big enough to see on our prototype boards. These are surface mount but are still hand soldered when built in house. BTW, we still use lead based cored solder, the water based flux messes up high voltage, high frequency circuits.

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#11
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Re: Soldering Tiny Phone Charger Wires

02/17/2016 5:17 AM

The professional lab techs are amazing. I've seen them solder surface mount components without a magnifier! They don't cook the components and their solder looks nice and shiny.

I'm a huge fan of rosin core solder. I've never used water based flux, so I can't tell you how well it works.

I was talking to a friend today about the 5 ton hvac unit I installed a few years ago. The old copper was taken out of the house, so I had to install new copper pipe as well. Because it's a 5 ton unit, I had to run a 1 1/8" x 3/8" line set. The 1 1/8" line was tough to install. Getting it in the attic, then running it down into the air handler closet was difficult. I kinked the hose on my first try and had to cut the damaged area out and start over. The 3/8" line was a piece of cake! I used hard solder (silver solder) with a flux paste. The torch was an oxy/acetylene setup - man that acetylene is dirty, but it does burn hot.

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#13
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Re: Soldering Tiny Phone Charger Wires

02/17/2016 5:40 AM

Its a good many years since I used Acetylene, I liked it for many jobs then (RN), but I guess you were using a "smoky" flame, less Oxygen, then it can get really dirty! (From memory!)

Which is part of the reason when soldering or brazing, I use a gas bottle from our caravan (Propane mix) and a really nice burner torch, with adjustable air intake. More than hot enough for most soldering and brazing I find. Get the air right and it burns quite clean I find....

According to Wiki here:-

Propane_torch

I can get up to around 1,995 °C (3,623 °F), which is pretty good (and actually higher than I thought possible!)

I would even expect one of those "canister" propane burners to do it just as well.....

Acetylene is maybe a bit OTT for such work, especially where confined spaces are worked in! What do you think?

Remember, an acetylene/oxygen flame burns at about 3,773 K (3,500 °C; 6,332 °F). As good as twice as hot as Propane!

Plus you have to lug two cylinders around.....even if only the smaller ones.....

Just a though.....

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#15
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Re: Soldering Tiny Phone Charger Wires

02/17/2016 6:56 AM

"I can get up to around 1,995 °C (3,623 °F), which is pretty good (and actually higher than I thought possible!)"

You can get nearer to 3000° if you use mapp gas

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#16
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Re: Soldering Tiny Phone Charger Wires

02/17/2016 8:25 AM

Good info, but you did not mention thermal units! Also, I do not know anything about mapp gas....so I turned to Wiki....

In fact its not that hot or its hotter- 2,020 °C (3,670 °F) depending upon which units you actually meant!!! You are right that you can get "nearer", but is it worth it?

In fact a great difference with either units to your post, but not really that much hotter than propane...

According to Wiki.....

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#17
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Re: Soldering Tiny Phone Charger Wires

02/17/2016 9:34 AM

You're right, I meant °C but, having looked at Wiki again I see that they quote 2020°C in air & 2925°C in oxygen. I was looking at the wrong numbers.

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#20
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Re: Soldering Tiny Phone Charger Wires

02/17/2016 10:33 AM

LOL!!!

Nobody got hurt and you meant well!!

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#19
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Re: Soldering Tiny Phone Charger Wires

02/17/2016 10:04 AM

I think MAPP gas set ups (at least here in the States) are meant for light brazing work, whilst propane torches are used for soldering work on large copper (or copper or brass plumbing fixtures).

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#21
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Re: Soldering Tiny Phone Charger Wires

02/17/2016 10:40 AM

I have brazed steel with propane and silver soldered copper as well.....

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#25
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Re: Soldering Tiny Phone Charger Wires

02/17/2016 2:14 PM

Years ago, I owned a jewelry store and did some bench work and melting scrap gold into ingots. We used a propane/oxygen set up because it burned clean and provided plenty of heat.

I thought about using propane/oxygen for soldering the line set, but my HVAC friend told me to use oxygen/acetylene. With 1 1/8" pipes and heavy fittings, I needed a lot of fast heat. I also had to have a pretty small tip (I don't remember the size) to control the flame. There were some pretty tight areas that I was working in.

You're right about using low oxygen with acetylene - that black sooty smoke leaves a residue behind. When I hard soldered the pipes, I used a "normal" mixture of oxygen/acetylene and the flame was pretty clean, but not as clean as propane/oxygen. It left quite a bit of black residue behind.

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#26
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Re: Soldering Tiny Phone Charger Wires

02/17/2016 3:23 PM

That black soot results from a mis-adjusted torch...check your gas pressures and set them for the tip size...a properly adjusted oxy/acet flame should have a 'white' crisp shape to the inner part surrounded by blue, if you see 2 shades of blue increase oxygen flow, it's carbon rich...

Acetylene bottles contain acetone in a clay matrix and the acetylene is dissolved in the acetone, which is why they should be used in an upright position. Mapp gas is propane mixed with appx. 15% acetylene, burns slightly hotter, but the percentage is not so high as to cause detonation in the tank. Pure acetylene gas when pressurized over 15 psi. will explosively detonate on impact or pressure wave which is why some people lose hoses and gages off the tank.

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#14

Re: Soldering Tiny Phone Charger Wires

02/17/2016 6:24 AM

Additional ideas

Recently had need to check phone charger for voltage output. While it was nominal 5V DC, it was more like a full wave rectified that peaked at 5V.

Your problem may be in the selection of the power supply. Check that for AC ripple and DC level.)

Suggest try your assembled unit with a small DC battery stack (4 X AAA in series) and see if that works.

The other possibility is that in your soldering process, the IC has been overheated and failed.

The final option is that the LED leads have moved inside the capsule and are shorted. This is surprisingly easy to happen. You can check this by measuring the current through the LED. If there is current and no light = internal short.

We used to process around 30,000 through hole LEDs per day for automotive lamp assemblies.

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#18

Re: Soldering Tiny Phone Charger Wires

02/17/2016 9:56 AM

Very simple: you are burning up the LED in the attempt to solder leads to it. Just solder the leads to a socket or stick them in a breadboard and then insert the LED, see it that works for ya. Otherwise, chunk that LED and insert a new one into your fun board.

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#22

Re: Soldering Tiny Phone Charger Wires

02/17/2016 12:03 PM

Just my $.02 in the pot. For some reason many wall warts are made with Litz wire. Makes it a real pain to solder since each strand is covered with what often seems to be bullet proof insulation. Back in the old days we used to burn the insulation off with a match then clean the wire with emery cloth before soldering. Try to find someone with a match these days...

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#27

Re: Soldering Tiny Phone Charger Wires

03/21/2020 7:29 AM

There are lots of "how to" videos on YouTube making 5V or 12V soldering irons like LED lights, speaker wires, and other small projects like Mini Portable USB Soldering Iron With 5 Volt Mobile Charger. But you can check the video where you come to know the things required to Make Mini Portable USB Soldering Iron With 5 Volt Mobile Charger, Pencil Homemade.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcSpOi-dYd0

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