Super Battery

Seems like everybody has a new battery technology that is on the verge of being introduced to the public....

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1097684_aluminum-ion-battery-cell-is-durable-fast-charging-bendable-stanford-inventors-video

http://gizmodo.com/3-new-kinds-of-battery-that-just-might-change-the-world-1713221624

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/01/20150109-fuji.html

Yes it seems we need an equally clever way of charging the batteries.... I suppose we could price the option of speed accordingly....You want fast, you gotta pay....this would keep demand for rapid charging in check....most people would be content with the slower home charger....or 2 hour shopping booster charge...

I agree. It makes a lot more sense to charge offline and swap in new batteries.

Actually, in 1970, I was one of the drivers in the Clean Air Car Race sponsored by MIT and CalTech. Our class at Georgia Tech built an electric car that had swappable battery packs to demonstrate this very concept. You can see the battery packs behind the driver's seat. There were 4 packs of three batteries each (two on the other side).

http://www.engadget.com/2015/06/10/tesla-battery-swap/ its been tried....it failed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZU0wnpyhF8

I don't think we will come up with a more efficient way to put energy into a vehicle than pumping gasoline into the tank.

maybe I'm early but I like the sun as a source of power

Here you go:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_car

here you go

After all, the sun is ultimately where gasoline begins. Factor in all the inefficiencies of the hydrocarbon fuel supply chain, and compare that with electric power from coal even, or from solar, then see which hand fills up first.

There is Hydrogen, no thanks. I'm waiting for liquid fuel and Fuel Cell to match, before I get into this territory, say Methanol or Ethanol.

It's a question of energy density and where the conversion takes place. Using Rixter's 1.2MW in 5 minutes (=100kWhr), all we need to do is calculate the equivalent amount of raw fuel required to fill the tank.

According to the EIA, a typical utiltity-class power station requires around 1.05 pounds of coal to generate 1 kWhr, or 105 lb for each 100kWhr that goes in the "tank". My Cruze will go 300mi on 7.5gal. (highway) for a weight of fuel of only 50 lb; i.e., the energy density is twice as great as coal. Note that this has nothing to do with getting the raw fuel to the power plant or refinery, just the delivery of the final product to the vehicle.

It's one of things that militates toward the "economy of scale" argument, where we put refineries and power plants in remote areas where millions of tons of raw fuel can be processed, stored, and then distributed to retail locations.

Consider this also, it takes 8-12 hours to process crude into gasoline, but only 5-10 minutes to fill your tank, quite a time compression ratio.

Watch this space; an excerpt from ABC (Aust) show "Catalyst".

Professor Thomas Maschmeyer
This is our battery, it's based on zinc bromide. So, we've got the two electrodes here and what's called a coin cell, and then the key part is that we have a gel that we put on top of the electrode.
NARRATION
Zinc-bromine flow batteries exist already. They use a liquid to transport the changed particles, which has its advantages, but they're too big to fit in a phone or computer. Thomas' breakthrough idea was to take a zinc-bromine battery, but instead of a liquid, use a gel. So why a gel? Well, it's neither a liquid nor a solid, but you get the advantages of both. And that includes being able to move ions quickly, so you get rapid charging.
Dr Jonica Newby
So how quickly does it charge?
Professor Thomas Maschmeyer
We can get it down to just a few minutes.
Dr Jonica Newby
Really? So you're saying I could charge my phone in just a few minutes.
Professor Thomas Maschmeyer
In just a few minutes. And not just your phone, but also your car.
NARRATION

Already the battery is running at 90% efficiency, which is higher than in your mobile phone. It has a longer lifetime and zinc is cheaper than lithium.

End Quote.

Redox batteries are not new but now they are improved to get rid of some of the old problems. REDFLOW makes them for homes and industry. I expect there are many more. If the ABC piece is predictive then redox/gel batteries will start to become available soon.

I see that Vanadium is also used in redox batteries as it lasts longer and is more plentiful than Lithium. These ones use Zinc which is more plentiful still. Looks to me like TESLA are premature in building their technology now. Lets hope their plant is versatile enough to build different types of battery.

Jim

I found lot of discussion on this topic, but without any useful result. I have been discussing with PhD students on a solution they are working on.These are called REDOX batteries. Look up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanadium_redox_battery

As per my understanding all you need is to pour fresh electrolyte and your battery is ready in minutes. Electrodes remaining the same, imagine you drive into a top-up station, where the old electrolyte will be drained out and new one pumped in and you are ready to drive away in minutes!!! This chemical is prepared, no need to charge and hence the issue of large energy wastage does not occur to begin with. What do we do with used electrolyte- is an issue I am trying to sort out.

Do hold on. Approach seems interesting.

"The person who makes a success of living is the one who sees his goal steadily and aims for it unswervingly." -- Cecil B. DeMille

The problem with the redox batteries seems to be energy density....about one sixth of lithium ion....

Plus their size and weight.

A typical small Redox battery of just 3kW output weighs in at around 250kg with full tanks and takes up close to a cubic metre of space.

Not a problem for a fixed installation, but may be a tad big and heavy for vehicular use.

3kW is too small for a vehicle. I think 1HP = 0.746 kw and so from 3KW we can get just about 4.5H. Even a 2 wheelers need more HP !!

I dont think you'll see too many flow batteries in a car

The ones i have read about do not discard the electrolyte. Indeed if you did discard it you would reduce the life significantly! The electrolyte 'plates' metal onto the anode during charge and then strips it off during discharge. To change electrolyte after a deep discharge would mean that you are also removing the metal that has been stripped from the anode. So you would need to also replace the anodes with preplated anodes. All do-able but probably not necessary. Especially if the gel variety becomes commercially available.

Jim

There is no "plating" in a flow battery - the electrodes remain the same.

Their spiel is strong on written words, very sparse on detail. Sounds like a very familiar story.

could you expand on that please?

The key to a replaceable battery pack is standardization. If we had as many different types of fuel for ICE as we have batteries, no-one would be able to afford to supply it. Sorry to say it here but, it will probably require "regulation" before it will happen.

Well truthfully I don't think we will ever see a one-size-fits-all solution here....at least not for a long time....it would seem to me the ultimate solution would be alpha beta voltaic nuclear batteries....and although there are advances being made, a time when we will see them in vehicles still seems a long way off....

http://rexresearch.com/nucell/nucell.htm

more om the key polymerhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyacetylene

I believe VW may well help you realize your dream of no ICE. They owe a fortune to EPA and from personal work experience, I can tell you, they prefer fines to be paid with company investments in "green" technology, even if it might aid the offending company in a monetary gain over time. Despite their reputation, they aren't really trying to close businesses, just change them. VW may well have to start building E cars and install a grid of re-charging stations. (I can't remember if I read this here or in one of the dozen industrial emails I get everyday)

This would solve a bit of the stigma to buying an E car - many available recharging stations.

Battery improvement is definitely a hot topic these days, and the quick charge, large capacity battery is just a few years away. Already we've seen vast improvements in the last 10 years in Li-ion batteries storage time and recharge. I can now go out and ride my mountain bike at midnight for 2 hours without carrying 20 pounds of batteries with me into the woods - just a light /battery combo, that weighs a few ounces, on my handle bar. Couldn't do that in 2005.

just a note.............today this small company filed its patent applications in several countries, inc USA...the stock shot up 25%

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/biosolar-files-national-phase-patents-083000052.html

LOL Yeah all the way to $.14....BSRC OTC penny stock ?