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Air Pressure Reducer

03/01/2016 8:17 PM

Hello friends, I am looking for an air pressure regulator to reduce the air pressure from 350psi(24bar) to 150psi(10bar) at 1000cfm of air flow. The input and output of the valve needs to be 2 inches. Does anybody at this forum knows where can I find it? Thanks in advance! Luis M

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#1

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/01/2016 8:38 PM

explain the application

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/01/2016 8:44 PM

It is for an air compressor to be used in rock perforating machines that can use at most 150psi and 1000cfm. We need to reduce the delivering pressure of the air compressor.

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#3

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/01/2016 9:02 PM

Go here:

Type in, "air regulator".

This ain't rocket science.

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#12
In reply to #3

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/03/2016 8:29 AM

That is a good source - much better than Google, as a search on there brings up your run of the mill type air pressure regulators, in fractional pipe sizes. The OP probably did such. That link you gave starts with several dozen manufacturers and by the time you get done with all the filters, you are left with basically one manufacturer. I see his problem and why he came to us.

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#15
In reply to #12

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/03/2016 9:10 AM

"That link you gave starts with several dozen manufacturers and by the time you get done with all the filters, you are left with basically one manufacturer. I see his problem and why he came to us."

So the CR4 Forums have become the new LetMeGoogleThatForYou.com?

That's it, the idiots have officially taken over. When are they launching the next Mars Explorer robot? I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/03/2016 9:18 AM

I think I stated the problem - "let me Google that for you" doesn't work. Does it bother you that much that I might need to use a similar device some day, in one of my process skid control packages and I took the time to enlighten myself as to why someone would ask the question? (actually, I already knew that was going to be a tough bugger to find and wanted to see if I could find it) So if I do such, I should just keep it to myself and not share my search results on CR4?

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#17
In reply to #16

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/03/2016 10:56 AM

No, it's not you, my gripe is with the people who come here EXPECTING us to drop everything we're doing and do their search engine legwork for them because they're too stupid and/or lazy to to a little searching on their own before asking for help.

That's why the gurus and wise men of old went off to live all alone on snowy mountaintops, so that they didn't have to deal with the idiots coming to them with questions like "You're smart, right? Where can I find fresh seven-grain bread and the best Black Forest Ham in down?" (The answer, of course, is "For the bread, check these five bakeries, they all make seven-grain bread fresh daily. For the ham, since 'best' is subjective, check out these seven delis, they all have several yelp reviews praising their hams.")

If there is an actual tricky question, such as "I have a Korean Widget Stamper from the 1950's that runs on 240V three phase Y, and a Polish Widget Polisher from the 1930's that runs of 360V three phase Delta. My Plant has 120/240V Single Phase, and 480V three phase Delta power available, and I need to tie both machines to a control panel that uses a PLC that operates with 24VDC. How do I get all this to work together?" Then that's something we can all look at, help with, and we all learn something. But when it's "Can you find this part fore me, I've tried doing nothing and that hasn't worked so far." it's just irritating.

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#18
In reply to #17

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/03/2016 11:36 AM

You think so? How many of us have come back with a good solution? This is one weird beast. I immediately knew that after 28 years of process control designing and building. I assumed the OP has Googled it and did likewise to see that indeed, this was not something Google is going to find for you. The best lead, as Lyn posted, has a "maybe" at a grand total of one manufacturer. The OP can check that lead out for him/herself.

So what is one supposed to do if one can't find it? Logically, you ask a forum with many experienced engineers who maybe used such a regulator once in their career. So instead one should just give up because CR4 users are too darned busy to help? You are making it very difficult for me to ever ask a question on here again, as I have come to dead ends already after a Google search. Sorry CR4 readers can't share their experiences because they are too busy.

Hey - you try to find this thing. Never mind, you're too busy.

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#20
In reply to #18

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/03/2016 12:32 PM

Perhaps, in my haste, I mistook an actual 'good' question for 'yet another lazy person asking us to do his job for him.' The specifications seemed so straightforward, it appeared at first glance to have been a 'stock' item. Equal input and output diameters, a flow rate and pressure ranges that looked easily within 'normal specs' for a pipe that size.

I have vented my spleen at an inappropriate time, and I am shamed and humbled by it.

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#23
In reply to #20

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/03/2016 1:00 PM

Thank you.

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#4

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/01/2016 9:22 PM

I haven't investigated it, but that sounds rather small for the desired flow.

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#10
In reply to #4

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/03/2016 8:06 AM

At 150 psi a 2" pipe will handle a bit more than 1000 scfm of air. OP is good here.

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/03/2016 8:24 AM

Your right on the 2" tube flow capacity, 1350 CFM @ 150 psi on one chart I checked.

It is the regulator that is the restriction, Ross do a 3" one but the 24 BAR inlet pressure is a bit on the high side (they quote 21 BAR in their literature)

Best regards,

John

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#13
In reply to #11

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/03/2016 8:33 AM

Never did find a regulator that big - I think Lyn has a source in his link.Yeah - he might need a bigger valve (regulator) to flow that much.

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#5

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/02/2016 3:35 AM

A couple of problems, 2" regulators will flow about 700 to 800 C F M but the real problem is the inlet pressure of 24 bar, a fair bit higher than most regulators can cope with.

I would look as someone like Ross.

Best of luck,

John

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/02/2016 7:11 AM

Thanks, John.

Yes, it is a non-common regulator. I will try with Ross, thanks again. Best regards, Luis M

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#7

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/02/2016 10:25 PM

You may find something in the pressurized CO2 or Nitrogen field, possibly even the Natural Gas industry.

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#8

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/02/2016 11:23 PM

Find an air compressor supply company, they install high pressure a.c. all the time. I have seen those

devices in the blow molding of plastic bottles.

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#9

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/03/2016 6:08 AM

You shouldn't have trouble finding a valve following advice already given here, but could you run the compressor at 10 bar as an alternative?

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#14

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/03/2016 8:59 AM

You can use 2" Fisher 95H regulator for your application.

The outlet pressure would drop by around 10% to give you a flow of 60,000 SCFM

If you can not tolerate that, look for pilot operated regulator, either Fisher or Cashco would have what you need

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#19

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/03/2016 12:22 PM

Pumping 1000 (s?)cfm of air up to 24 bar and then reducing to 10 bar is a serious energy inefficiency.

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#21
In reply to #19

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/03/2016 12:42 PM

Perhaps other machines/processes taping off the pipe use 24 bar pressure.

Is it really so different from a, older, much-repaired and modified machine, still with a big three-phase motor to turn the Master Camshaft, secondary speed controllers replaced with units that run off of 120VAC, single phase, and a new control panel that is controlled by a PLC that works at 24VDC? It seems 'inefficient' to tap off two legs of the 3-phase to step down to 120/240V 'split phase,' then use one of the 120V legs to feed a 24VDC power supply, but it may be the 'most expedient' way to supply everything with the power it wants, in the correct 'flavor,' and still have a single emergency cutoff switch to keep the OSHA inspector happy. Yes, the machine might be able to be redesigned with all 24VDC Servoes and Steppers to be even more energy efficient, but that's a 'down the line' project, for when the machine can be down for the months required for the rebuild and testing.

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#22
In reply to #21

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/03/2016 12:48 PM

It depends on how much tail is wagging how much dog, doesn't it?

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#24
In reply to #22

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/03/2016 1:17 PM

Exactly, and all we know about this particular dog is the size and pressure of one reducer valve, and an inkling that the OP needs to 'MacGuyver the air compressor they have on site to the tools they have on site.

At least it's not completely 'square peg, round hole' like Apollo 13 had to deal with concerning the CO2 Scrubbers.

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#25

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/03/2016 8:05 PM

Here's one site for starters.

http://straval.com/products/pressure-regulators/

And from it, here's one valve:

http://straval.com/products/pressure-regulators/prh09-ex/?size=778

Punch in the 'select' detais.

Circa $7,012 - I would turn the wick down on the compressor and run at 10 bar - which you should do anyway to save energy.

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#26
In reply to #25

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/04/2016 9:01 AM

Good links!

Not much about flowrate, but the 2nd one gives a CV figure, 23.8 for all sizes 1/2" - 2", so presumably the internals are the same. Flow curves would be useful. Assuming OP meant scfm, I make CV required ~ 7, so valve capacity is no problem. An orifice at that flow and ΔP is about 14mm diameter.

Also regulators on eg oxygen cylinders work at pressure > 200bar.

As adreasler said in #21, perhaps other machines/processes tapping off the pipe use 24 bar pressure.

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#27
In reply to #26

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/04/2016 2:57 PM

We are guessing, and without feedback, there is not much more we can do.

In terms of pipe size, my cynical view (it comes with age) is valves are made with the smallest diameter ports - smaller vqlve bodies - less metal - cheaper to make.

They are probably OK for the flow required but need larger diameter pipes to avoid pressure drop - that are not easily accommodated without reducers (not very elegant - it looks 'wrong').

So this valve with a 2 inch port looks plenty big enough for the flow, but as you say, lacks basic info usually needed to make a proper decision.

I've done my bit. It's over to the OP now - their money - their decision.

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#28
In reply to #27

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/04/2016 6:35 PM

Thank you very much, my friends. I have gotten a norgren valve that fits with my needs. Its part number is R18-C05-RGLA. Great weekend!

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#29
In reply to #28

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/05/2016 5:56 AM

Thanks for letting us know. Excellent choice. Good luck.

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#30

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/06/2016 2:27 PM

I think a 2" valve for 1000cfm would be a tad too small, we used to use 6" pipe for 200 PSI, or are you only reducing part of the volume?

Bazzer

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#31
In reply to #30

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/06/2016 2:36 PM

You might be right if it were 1000 actual cfm, but that's unlikely. For 1000scfm a 2" valve is plenty big enough. Various earlier posts cover this.

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#32
In reply to #30

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/07/2016 8:35 AM

You must have long pipe runs if you need 6" pipe.

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#33
In reply to #32

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/07/2016 10:53 AM

These were the days when we had 4 Broom Wade V1000 compressors in line feeding a factory with pipe runs of 3/4mile, happy days,all gone to China now

Bazzer.

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#34
In reply to #33

Re: Air Pressure Reducer

03/07/2016 11:26 AM

Just for interest, I make pressure loss in 1000m of 2" pipe about 6bar. In 6" pipe about 23mbar.

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