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Guru
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Ion Plasma Wing Flaps

04/01/2016 9:41 AM

Plasma instead of mechanical flaps? Really? Is this an April Fool's joke, or the real McCoy? The article also states this only requires a couple of watts on small drones.

http://www.theengineer.co.uk/waiting-in-the-wings-how-plasma-could-help-revolutionise-aircraft-design/?cmpid=tenews_2173080

I would like to hear folk's opinions about this. Will it really work out to be effective on large wing aircraft? If it can work, it brings a new level of flight control not even possible with mechanical flaps, since if one deploys flaps or attempts to when airspeed/air density are over critical values, the flaps will be broken and detach from the wing, what happens if plasma flaps deploy under those conditions? Will they act as brakes (as they are supposed to) and allow faster deceleration of the aircraft? We already see that if acting completely analogous to mechanical flaps, they increase lift.

I was fascinated to read the article, and learn something new today.

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Guru
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#1

Re: Ion Plasma wing flaps

04/01/2016 10:54 AM

This has, it appears, been around for a while.

Sounds pretty much like an April Fool item, doesn't it?

http://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/1.38232

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Ion Plasma wing flaps

04/01/2016 11:17 AM

Yes it does, but I did a quick search and found at least one dissertation on the subject, so no, it appears it is actual, and not a hoax.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Ion Plasma wing flaps

04/01/2016 12:32 PM

I've seen this idea presented before - it's not new. Notice also the date: March 9th., not April 1st.

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Guru
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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Ion Plasma wing flaps

04/01/2016 1:03 PM

Yes, now I see that, you are correct. I did not see "The Engineer" in my inbox until this morning.

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#5

Re: Ion Plasma Wing Flaps

04/01/2016 1:45 PM

I came across this some time ago....seems a little too fantastic.....but if it works I want to put one on the back of my Mustang....maybe on the front too....can I use these as windows, a roof? HAhaha yes a little too fantastic....

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Guru
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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Ion Plasma Wing Flaps

04/01/2016 2:10 PM

Homey, please step one more step back from the plasma, and do not spray that bottle toward my car!

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: Ion Plasma Wing Flaps

04/01/2016 2:26 PM

There was also talk of using plasmas to reduce or eliminate shock waves when flying greater than Mach 1.

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Guru
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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Ion Plasma Wing Flaps

04/01/2016 2:47 PM

If plasma control surfaces can be used to reduce drag (they would have to be 100% reliable and up full time), would it possible to take a large airliner and allow it to fly greater than Mach 1? Also, the plasma would have to help with air-stream reattachment to the control surfaces to prevent buffeting slightly below Mach 1.

Overall reduction in drag with little power consumption would seem to be a boon to fuel economy of air freighters and passenger airliners. Very interesting stuff, no doubt.

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#11
In reply to #8

Re: Ion Plasma Wing Flaps

04/01/2016 3:18 PM

Found this: Article: Exploring femtosecond laser plasma to reduce drag of hypersonic vehicle N. Fu · D. Xu · G. Zhang · J. Yao [Show abstract] [Hide abstract]
ABSTRACT: It is reported that femtosecond-duration laser pulse can be deployed to reduce drag for blunt-body vehicle in high-Mach flow field of air by generating laser plasma and shockwave. The interaction of plasma shockwave induced by femtosecond-duration laser pulse and bow shock over the head of the blunt-body vehicle is investigated numerically in the flow field of 30 km apart from the surface of the earth at Mach number of 5 and the mechanism of deploying the femtosecond laser plasma to reduce the drag of the vehicle is analyzed. The Navier-Stokes equations are exploited to compute the drag reduction for different femtosecond laser energies. The present numerical experiment proves that the femtosecond laser pulse has a better drag reduction effect than the nanosecond laser pulse under the same condition. When the femtosecond laser energy is 0.06 mJ, the femtosecond laser plasma can reduce the drag by 98%. And the higher the energy of femtosecond laser pulse, the higher the drag reduction ratio and the longer the time of low drag. Deploying three femtosecond laser energy point to reduce the drag of hypersonic vehicle is much more obviously. This energy-deposition mode can improve the optimum drag reduction ratio and save the laser energy.

No preview · Article · Feb 2015

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Guru
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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Ion Plasma Wing Flaps

04/01/2016 3:30 PM

What if the plasma was from even a low thrust ion accelerator? Could that possibly work?

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#9

Re: Ion Plasma Wing Flaps

04/01/2016 2:59 PM

horse feathers

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Ion Plasma Wing Flaps

04/01/2016 3:10 PM

If horses had wings, they would out fly pigs with wings.

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#13
In reply to #10

Re: Ion Plasma Wing Flaps

04/02/2016 4:48 AM

Not true at all.

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#14
In reply to #10

Re: Ion Plasma Wing Flaps

04/02/2016 5:51 AM

Whatdye mean 'if'.

They He did, from someplace called the Middle East, but a long ago, though.

Some'n to do with visiting heaven.................

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#17
In reply to #14

Re: Ion Plasma Wing Flaps

04/04/2016 8:14 AM

Who He? Ha HO, Hi. Huh?

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#15

Re: Ion Plasma Wing Flaps

04/02/2016 12:30 PM

Always with the negative waves, I don't see this on manned aircraft for over 20 years, if ever. (Think about GPS)

Mechanical flaps and slats are well developed and reliable.

Could be another solution in search of a problem.

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#18
In reply to #15

Re: Ion Plasma Wing Flaps

04/04/2016 8:16 AM

This is supposed to lower the overall lift weight, and the parasitic power is very low indeed, and obviously not needed at all times.

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#16

Re: Ion Plasma Wing Flaps

04/04/2016 12:28 AM

More fuel to carry, i.e. more weight, i.e. increased cost.

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#19

Re: Ion Plasma Wing Flaps

04/04/2016 10:41 AM

There are multiple problems to be overcome. One, disruption of the plasma due to static buildup on surfaces of larger aircraft. Static electrical fields generated by the aircraft's movement through dry air can dwarf the fields generated by the plasma power supply.

Second, icing can also disrupt the plasma flow. Yes, I would REALLY want to be flying that aircraft when icing and static cause the aircraft to have NO flap control.......

But, how about using the technology to save fuel on automobiles, by controlling air movement around the skin of the vehicle?

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#20
In reply to #19

Re: Ion Plasma Wing Flaps

04/04/2016 11:05 AM

Yes, and especially helpful in lighting the fire when the vehicle arrives at the scene of the crash.

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#21

Re: Ion Plasma Wing Flaps

04/04/2016 11:23 AM

Well, it would solve the problem of locating the aircraft crash site on a dark night.....Couldn't miss the purple lights next to the huge fireball...

And, me personally, I have always loved the look of purple lights on vehicles driving down the interstate...

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#22

Re: Ion Plasma Wing Flaps

04/04/2016 2:54 PM

This thread has just crashed and burned.

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