Previous in Forum: Bolton Strid   Next in Forum: What Is It?
Close
Close
Close
10 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
The Engineer
Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - Physics... United States - Member - NY Popular Science - Genetics - Organic Chemistry... Popular Science - Cosmology - New Member Ingeniería en Español - Nuevo Miembro - New Member

Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Albany, New York
Posts: 5060
Good Answers: 129

Redefining The Kilogram

07/07/2016 1:57 PM

Right now a kilogram is defined by a golf-ball sized cylinder locked in a vault in Sèvres, France. The International Prototype of the Kilogram, made of platinum and iridium, otherwise known as Le Grand K or Big K, is the last of its kind. The hunk of metal is only taken out once every 40 years to be compared against similar replicas from around the world.

All other standardized units of measurement have been redefined in terms of a fundamental natural constant. For instance, the meter, which was originally represented by a metal bar, was redefined in 1983 as the distance light travels in a vacuum during 1/299,792,458 of a second.

So for years, physicists have chased an elusive dream: replacing the physical kilogram with a standard inherent in properties of nature such as the speed of light, the wavelength of photons and the Planck constant (also called h-bar), which links the energy a wave carries with its frequency of oscillation. Scientists could use the Planck constant to compare the energy of a wave with Einstein's iconic E=mc2 equation; in that way, they would determine mass solely through the physical constants.

Unfortunately, no one has yet been able to measure the Planck constant to a level of precision that could rival what has been achieved by using Le Grand K as the benchmark. But researchers are making strides, and at the current pace, believe they can redefine the kilogram as soon as 2018.

Here is an article describing the new 'natural' definition of the Kilogram

Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 21017
Good Answers: 795
#1

Re: Redefining The Kilogram

07/07/2016 6:43 PM

The most fundamental unifying unit may be s-1.

(Shameless plug alert): This is mentioned in Nutshells of the Universe, by Gary Boothe and yours truly. I'm not guilty for the title, but I did some coauthoring and editing.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Glasgow, Free Republic of Scotland
Posts: 360
Good Answers: 30
#2
In reply to #1

Re: Redefining The Kilogram

07/08/2016 1:03 AM

So I just looked this up on the well known river named selling portal

Did you know Stephen Hawking wrote - The Universe in a Nutshell - in 2001 - not surprisingly this comes up first on searches even when you put your book name in.

Bizarrely someone is trying to sell a used copy of your book that is only in 'Good' condition (as opposed to 'very good' or 'as new') for $842 when the main portal does a brand new copy for $25

I am bemused but if they get a sale hats off to them

__________________
Free advice guaranteed or your money back
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 4)
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 21017
Good Answers: 795
#3
In reply to #2

Re: Redefining The Kilogram

07/08/2016 1:18 AM

That is really weird. The book originally retailed for US$16.95, I think, but I have seen used stuff from other people selling for astronomical prices for no discernible reason. Gee, I'm so honored to be in that stratosphere; I'll have to tell my senior coauthor when I see him this coming Sunday. Too bad we don't get royalties on secondary sales.

Yes, I knew at the time about Hawking's title, which is why I did not particularly like our title. I tried to discourage that, but I was junior on the team. We didn't make more than a few beers worth of money on it, but it was a fun venture. As far as I know, there is only one typo in the book, and it is devilishly difficult to detect.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Stoke-on-Trent, UK
Posts: 4496
Good Answers: 137
#4

Re: Redefining The Kilogram

07/09/2016 7:11 AM

Loth to argue with Scientific American, but as I understand it, Planck's constant is h = 6.63*10-34 J.s. ħ (h-bar) = h/(2*pi).

If the metre is defined as distance travelled by light in a given time, do you know how the time (second) is defined? Can't see it in your links.

__________________
Give masochists a fair crack of the whip
Register to Reply
Anonymous Poster #1
#5
In reply to #4

Re: Redefining The Kilogram

07/09/2016 10:16 AM

What?! What is h-bar)?

Register to Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Stoke-on-Trent, UK
Posts: 4496
Good Answers: 137
#7
In reply to #5

Re: Redefining The Kilogram

07/09/2016 11:00 AM

As I said, it's Planck's constant h divided by 2.pi. It's mentioned in the original post (defined wrongly in my opinion). In quantum mechanics formulas h/(2*pi) comes up often, so it's more convenient to define h-bar, maybe also because it comes quite close to 10-34 J.s.

__________________
Give masochists a fair crack of the whip
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Optical Engineering - Member Engineering Fields - Engineering Physics - Member Engineering Fields - Systems Engineering - Member

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Trantor
Posts: 5363
Good Answers: 647
#10
In reply to #7

Re: Redefining The Kilogram

07/10/2016 8:07 PM

Yep. Planck's constant is h, not h-bar.

When h is divided by 2 pi, it is called h-bar and is referred to as the 'reduced Planck's Constant' or sometimes as the 'Dirac Constant'.

__________________
Whiskey, women -- and astrophysics. Because sometimes a problem can't be solved with just whiskey and women.
Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Cosmology - Let's keep knowledge expanding Engineering Fields - Retired Engineers / Mentors - Hobbies - HAM Radio - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: North America, Earth
Posts: 4528
Good Answers: 106
#6

Re: Redefining The Kilogram

07/09/2016 10:59 AM

That will be good. Using the Big K would likely change it far more than 34 PPB. Nobody wants to be blamed for changing it, so I think that's why nobody wants to use it.

Note: The editor now has a bigger font, and the spelling checker works for me now. Thanks for the change, whatever it was.

__________________
“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” - Richard Feynman
Register to Reply
Power-User
United Kingdom - Member - Not quite retired Member

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Up an araucaria araucana tree, South London, United Kingdom
Posts: 132
Good Answers: 7
#8

Re: Redefining The Kilogram

07/10/2016 2:01 PM

Rather than basing the definition on a solid body, why not calculate the probable number of atoms of platinum and of iridium in the present alloyed standard body and make that number the new definition? I don't suggest anyone counts them!

Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Cosmology - Let's keep knowledge expanding Engineering Fields - Retired Engineers / Mentors - Hobbies - HAM Radio - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: North America, Earth
Posts: 4528
Good Answers: 106
#9
In reply to #8

Re: Redefining The Kilogram

07/10/2016 5:24 PM

The standard has to be practical to use. The old length standard was a 1 metre rod that had to be sighted through a piece of glass that could distort the angle of sight!

__________________
“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” - Richard Feynman
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 10 comments
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (1); Codemaster (2); Geoffrey36 (1); simonsd (1); StandardsGuy (2); Tornado (2); Usbport (1)

Previous in Forum: Bolton Strid   Next in Forum: What Is It?

Advertisement