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Power-User

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Two Cores of Power Cable are Shorted with Ground and Still Motor is Running

07/29/2016 9:14 AM

Yesterday 18.5 kW induction motor MCC main circuit breaker trips 3-4 times (each time trips after 4 to 6 hours). No problem is found on mechanical side of the system (motor drives a belt conveyor). Overload relay doesn’t operate even once during these tripping (functional test of overload relay is O.K). Every time main power circuit breaker gets tripped, magnetic contactor gets stuck and its contacts found to be flashed. Magnetic contactor is replaced but today once again motor trips one more time with same scenario.

Breaker was reset and motor was put into operation for a 15-20 minutes, load on all phases was normal, voltage was balance on all phases. Then motor is stopped and tests were taken. System and other detail is as under:-

i. Power Rating: 18.5 kW, 400 V, 50 Hz, 35 A, 1460 RPM

ii. Power Cable: 3.5 C x 25 mm2 ( Length : 200 meters from MCC to motor)

iii. Running Load: R (Phase) : 18-20 A, Y (Phase): 19-20 A, B (Phase): 18-20 A

iv. Phase Voltages: R-Y: 399 V, R-B: 400 V, Y-B: 400 V

v. Overload Setting: 23 A

vi. Megger Results of Motor at 500 VDC:

R-G: 470 Mohm

Y-G: 640 Mohm

B-G: 587 Mohm

vii. Megger Results of Cable 3.5 C x 25 mm2 at 500 VDC:

R-G: 0 Mohm

Y-G: 0 Mohm

B-G: 387 Mohm

viii. No loose connection and sparking sign were found either in motor junction box or at MCC terminals. No other abnormality was found on motor or load side.

After conducting test, motor was put in operation for test purpose and it is still running (8 hours passed without tripping) with normal load and balance voltage on all phases.

Two cables are short with ground and still motor runs?

What is your expert opinion? It is not a new installation and nothing new is done.

Thanks in advance

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Guru

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#1

Re: Two Cores of Power Cable are Shorted with Ground and Still Motor is running

07/29/2016 9:38 AM

Replace the cable.

Next question?

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Guru

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#2

Re: Two Cores of Power Cable are Shorted with Ground and Still Motor is running

07/29/2016 11:07 AM

Did you do the cable testing with the megger in the megaohms range or with it in the low ohm range that can read fractions of an ohm up to a few thousand ohms?

Reason being you could have a moisture saturated cable that in the meggers high ohm range reads below its minimal resolution of say 10,000 or100,000 ohms which it displays as being zero whereas in one of its low ohms range (if it has them) like 200 or 2000 ohms it would clearly show it to be far higher than an actual dead short.

Learn to use your tools and the correct ones properly is what am saying.

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Power-User

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Two Cores of Power Cable are Shorted with Ground and Still Motor is running

07/29/2016 1:30 PM

Thanks for your interest.

There are several ranges in Megaohm meter. For example if 200 Mohm is selected and IR is greater than 200 Mohm then it shows OL, similarly for 1,000 Mohm and finally for 2,000 Mohm. it also have option of auto mode.

Don't worry. Tool is properly used and results are verified 2 to 3 times with another instrument also.

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Guru

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#6
In reply to #3

Re: Two Cores of Power Cable are Shorted with Ground and Still Motor is running

07/29/2016 9:14 PM

I don't think you fully comprehended and considered tcmtech's comment.

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Guru

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Two Cores of Power Cable are Shorted with Ground and Still Motor is running

07/29/2016 10:26 PM

I comprehend your statement and fully agree.

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Guru

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#8
In reply to #3

Re: Two Cores of Power Cable are Shorted with Ground and Still Motor is running

07/29/2016 10:32 PM

You are aware that the big 'M' in front of the Ohms is for millions (1,000,000) of them right?

And that what I am talking about is using the low resistance range, 200 or 2000 ohms not 200 or 2000 million (200,000,000 or 2,000,000,000), to do the testing between the lines and the ground.

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#4

Re: Two Cores of Power Cable are Shorted with Ground and Still Motor is running

07/29/2016 1:59 PM

Besides moisture in the cable, there could be an arcing ground fault. These can be troublesome to track down and/or intermittent.

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#5

Re: Two Cores of Power Cable are Shorted with Ground and Still Motor is running

07/29/2016 5:00 PM

<...Two cables are short with ground and still motor runs...expert opinion...>

There are a number of serious safety faults and the current installation is best de-energised immediately before someone gets hurt/killed.

Re-energisation is only to take place once all faults are located and eliminated.

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#9

Re: Two Cores of Power Cable are Shorted with Ground and Still Motor is running

07/30/2016 3:27 AM

Saw a motor in 1979 that had similar symptoms. Driving belt conveyor in mine. Would run for a few hours then trip breakers (not over load relays). The motor was pulled and inspected multiple times.

Eventually discovered a broken rotor bar. Centrifugal force during running caused bar to swing out and trip the earth leakage.

Fault only hapened on low loaded time in shift. Low load on conveyor allowed an incremental increase in speed. Just enough for the bar to short.

One stopped, the bar returned into position and was unable to be detected visually. Finally showed on dye penetrant.

As far as the cable, does need to be confirmed actual reading on appropriate meter scale, or alternate measurement process.

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Two Cores of Power Cable are Shorted with Ground and Still Motor is running

07/30/2016 12:10 PM

That would be very rare today with modern rotor construction.

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#11

Re: Two Cores of Power Cable are Shorted with Ground and Still Motor is Running

07/31/2016 2:48 AM

When I was a young engineer -specialty electrical machines- I was sent to receive a new supply cable of about 200 m length [I think was a 3.5* aluminum 120 sqr.mm p.v.c. insulated [0.6/1kV rated].

The installation delivering man was a faculty colleague of mine-also very young and machine specialist.

I tested the cable with 500 V megger and all 3 phases against neutral-and between phases- was 0.

After a long hesitation, after checking again and again entire installation, I decided to try to introduce [with all required protection equipment] a single fuse and to wait one minute. And at the end all 3 fuses were in place and the cable stay energized at no-load for 72 hours.

At the end, after 72 hours, I checked the cable insulation resistance: all the above measured was now above 1 megohm.

The moisture penetrated the ends and the no-load current was enough to dry it. In my opinion, you have to dry the cable keeping it energized for at least 3 days continuously.

After then you have to seal the ends. See for sealing appurtenances at Raychem[Tyco], 3M and other.

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#12

Re: Two Cores of Power Cable are Shorted with Ground and Still Motor is Running

08/06/2016 7:13 AM

Entry of moisture in cable insulation(either at M.C.C. panel end or motor T.B. end due to improper terminations or sealing, and also if cable runs underground due to physical injury of cable insulation) may cause the above situation. Also there is a high probability of development of very high resistance fault( Arcing fault) due to physical injury of cable insulation and in such case, during insulation test by application of high voltage D.C.(500 volt and above) result may show zero reading. You may test the fault resistance by analogue Ohm-meter having high resistance scale, Meg-ohm range. For detection of such type of fault, special cable fault locator coupled with TDR, HV Thumper, Magnetic amplifier with head phone etc. are required with special expertise.

Manindra

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