The Generation Gap

Well I think you can only teach a willing and eager student....some people thirst for knowledge while others think they know it all, some think that anything you know is no longer relevant to them because everything has changed since you were a kid or when you were learning a trade or profession...I've always used this to my advantage by making people pay for information, then you usually get their attention...Now that I'm retired, like a lot of others here, I enjoy helping people with whatever I can....I've never wasted much time preaching...and I still enjoy learning....

BTw on a related note I actually used that same procedure last week to fix a badly bent auger on Dads old NH 114 haybine.

A day or two before I was opening up some new hay land we got permission to have from a larger local farmer Dad knows. It's a apparently never been hayed coulee between two of the guys fields and it was loaded with rocks they have picked out of the fields over the years.

Anyway I picked up a huge one and somehow it got up in the machine and went under the auger bending it bad enough to bind up against the back and floor of the machine once the rock was out. ~1 1/2" out of round on a 14' long 12" dia heavy wall tube.

After some poking around and thinking about it I came to the old machining instructor's method of anything that bends but didn't break can be bent back if you can produce a similar force from the opposite side.

What I ended up doing was putting two 1 1/4" x 4" 6 foot long solid steel bars we used to use as forklift forks on Dads loader tractor in above the auger and the main frame that holds the two big pinch rollers on opposite sides of the bent area.

From that I had Dad push down on the bars with loader tractor with a roughly 5:1 mechanical advantage on the roller. Sure enough about 5 shots of that and I had the roller within 1/8" of being true, of which it has never ran that straight since we got the machine.

Saved me a pile of work in not having to take the whole haybine apart to get the auger out and fabricate a new one and it made me look like a friggin' machine fix it master for a while.

Here is my experience:

When I started as a young machinist I asked the 55 year old machinist a question about some pumps in the pump house. The answer was: " Why would I tell you? You are young and if I give away my knowledge you take my job and I am gone."

Times were tough at the time but I never understood that kind of attitude. I did not see myself in the job for much longer than it took me to be eligible to go to high school and I left less than a year later to study.

From this I learned a lot:

1. What ever you need to know you have to learn for yourself. I also know that as a machinist you need to make a few mistakes for yourself. No knowledge of the elder generation can teach you what you learn from your own mistakes. Its every bodies guess how I learned how to swing a hammer!

2. I also learned that there is people and people. There is those that share their knowledge and why they did, came to me later.

3. Sharing knowledge and information is important for teamwork. I realise this in my day to day work. It benefits the outcome of your work and the end result for the team and the project. It also makes the workplace more safe because the mistake from you can get the other one in the line of fire!

I therefore share my knowledge all the time - this is integral part of a successful team. But also if someone knows what you know then he can do this for you either while you are away for holiday or he frees up your time for other things or even for your own career development. Mind you know, it creates pressure to advance yourself and to not stand still - if there is really someone who knows what you know :-).

My kids listen to classic music! Not sure where that comes from, I still like punk more!

" Why would I tell you? You are young and if I give away my knowledge you take my job and I am gone."

That fear is still prevalent and often discussed in the context of the knowledge management (KM) field, which has received a lot of attention as the Information Age progresses. Lost corporate and personal knowledge is a huge problem, especially as turnover increases for younger generations.

Incidentally I'm working on a KM article at the moment, and stumbled on this yesterday. Pretty interesting ideas.

http://cognitive-edge.com/blog/rendering-knowledge/

That is precisely why there are more and more publications in every field, and more and more online training that is industry specific.

If one wants to find out how to train the younger generation, I suggest a hard review at how the military trains recruits to perform the ever more technical aspects of warfare.

Thanks for the link! Will digest and see if it sticks!

I once read somewhere an anecdote that applies to many successful careers and endeavors and it went something like this: "Mr. xxx, to what would attribute your obvious success in doing what you do?" to which Mr. x replied "good judgment" to which the questioner continued "then how did you attain to 'good judgment'?" to which he replied "experience" and then the questioner "well how did you get the 'experience'?" to which Mr. x replied "poor judgment". I remembered that when I read your point #1

I have noticed a slight decline in aptitude or really attitude in the last ten years in my power plant setting. Some of it is related to inability to grasp some topics (mainly due to lack of training in water purification equipment, although GPILearn is at least a baseline introduction for operators and I&E technicians. That does not teach them all the tricks of the trade, though, mainly a stopgap measure.

Some of it is a lack of attitude when it comes to work ethic, and seems to be no particular barrier to advancement, which I find somewhat shocking. (literally??)

Now that I am in the middle generation of the typical workforce I see that as well and I have found that largely so much of it in the generation after me is that they have had so little practical education in anything so they simply don't know how to feel or have reason to try and act any different.

Show them some appreciation for what they can do and give them some actual practical working knowledge and most of them suck it up to no end and will even start expanding on it on their own.

Unless of course, they run up against some older half wit that is doing everything they can to protect their job because they know they don't belong in it any longer and will not find another one like it which is very common being I have come to feel that a good quarter of my own generation are actually damn near as useless as the people they are trying to protect their jobs from.

I've dealt with that type all my working life.

First they put you on a job they think is way beyond you to make you fail. If you succeed then they do it again but without sufficient resources to work with. If you succeed despite that they send you to the wrong job with no resources to make damn sure you're not going be able to get the right job done.

Been there done that and been in more than a few office meetings with upper level management people over that sort of treatment but then I'm ornery enough to do that whereas most younger guys would take it they are not wanted and leave after the first or second incident where it was obvious they were being set up to fail with no way out.

This ain't my first rodeo, either. I have had jobs in various endeavors, and every one was basically a no win situation: (1) the war on drugs - epic fail, although I did my best to work every case and prove up what was there - no way to beat the back-log, and no way to be in two places testifying at the same time. (2) an noncompetitive wax oxidation plant (to make lubricant additives, water-proofing, and investment casting wax additives, etc. - plant was in poor shape, boiler about to blow, product historically had been damaged by lack of catalyst, and over heat., etc. etc., competition had stronger plants, better market share, and their own history to deal with (explosions, etc.). (3) a small power generation company city owned. -still there in spite of a shrinking generation fleet in the face of record local grid demand, and higher and higher portions of purchased power.

I am on the count-down (in years) to retirement, if I last that long.

Some interesting replies to be sure. Sharing information has always been my thing. When I was in charge of about 30 draftsmen and designers, I took pride in showing my disciples how it was done. I didn't stop there. If it wasn't quite right, I would take the time to make sure they got it right. I'm not a teacher, but I know they learned something a school would never teach them. Those "students", I understand are now working in industry and doing well; I correspond with some of them.

I have been in the company of some engineers who would not give me the time of day. These guys felt they knew better than everyone else because they had an engineering degree. They kept to themselves much like the relationship between military officers and enlisted. We all know how that goes in reality. Respect is a two way street; important in all aspects of life.

I know many doctors (now due to frequent visits) that I can place in two different boxes. One type of doctor speaks one on one while the other speaks down to you. It doesn't take much to recognize which one is which.

I have used a person's willingness to share knowledge or not to as a pretty good indicator of their natural disposition actual skillsets and abilities.

People that share openly tend to have every reason to want to in order to see that their knowledge is carried on.

Those who don't seem do so because they either they know that what little they do hold on to that no one else knows is likely all that's keeping them employed or they outrightly have nothing worth sharing to begin with.

I had a service manager that was very much the second person. he was just an all around rotten little person (really, ~5' 4" sawed off evil pug faced leprechaun of a man) and seemed to rather enjoy it.

The only things he cared about were how to make people dislike him, and eventually their jobs, and where he hid the parts for most anything anyone needed so that no matter how much anyone searched the warehouse or parts bins they had to come to him to get their parts to which effect he loved to torment anyone who had been foolish enough to try and find them without him.

The worst part was for at least 15 years he was the face of the their customer service system and the general view the public had of the business as a whole reflected it. Slow, rotten, unreliable but the only one in town that did what they did so you were stuck with that or nothing.

Unfortunately in my now ~25 years of being in the working world I have come to see that people like him represent the majority of those who are in lead or management positions.

Join a Maker space near you. You will find many young and open minds looking for all the experience and knowledge you have to offer.

Post videos on Youtube. Like Kieth Fenner (Turn Wright Machine Works) and Keith Rucker (Vintage Machinery - Georgia Museum of Agriculture).

I've seen belt lacing and babbit pouring etc. from these two.

Write a book, in print, or better, on line and document all the tricks you have learned.

Perhaps CR4 could set a repository (catalogued and referenced ) and maybe a separate forum to air and preserve - and allow seekers to find these almost lost gems before they are lost.

I too feel the same about the younger generation in India. Especially the immature students being used as tools in the hands of politicians- I doubt whether the nation will be run properly in say 5 to 10 years from now. Example - in Kashmir- Pakistan pours money- to instigate youth & children - to skip school & to throw stones at our Defence personnel. What do you think is the future for such persons. They will be unfit to be employed anywhere in the world. They are fit breeding ground for terrorism.

See this TED.COM about American Children- they seem to be giving you some assurance that they will take care. http://www.ted.com/talks/courtney_martin_the_new_american_dream?utm_source=newsletter_daily&utm_campaign=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_content=button__2016-09-07

We already went through this thing you are speaking of in India, but here in America it has been continuing for the last 20-30 years, and the effects are real. Do you want India to end up like America is going to end up? NO! Then do something about it, and get the maths and sciences back up and running before it is too late! To hell with how Little Johnny "feels" about it. Take away his toys until he learns how to add, subtract, multiply, and divide. -- There's a joke about Little Johnny and the four mathematical operations somewhere, and as are all those jokes, it is particularly nasty.

I am like you Mr.Ronseto. But not surrounded by my grand children as they are living separately. I have written some articles on my experiences in marketing and Material Handling so as to pass on my experience to new generation. This is easiest way to give back to society.

My situation is similar, but I am careful to distinguish between my up-to-date and my historical knowledge. Before I retired I used to teach physics in relation to the operating principles of anaesthetic machines, and, believe me, some of these early machines were both weird and wonderful. I always had good feedback from the students, but when I retired I declined the offer of continuing in part-time teaching, because I felt my store of knowledge was too historical.

However, I went out to East Africa on a charitable mission and found that they were using the equipment I trained on. The moral is that there are still parts of the world that cannot afford modern machinery and would be grateful for even the simplest devices to ease their lives.

As for the grandchildren, I despair. They are too busy on the computer to take any real notice of me.

Like many of the other posts, I have my experiences as well, but,,, there is nothing more rewarding than sharing your knowledge with the younger "generations". I too have seen all the different kinds of people, those who share, those who do not, but there are times when I have been a little surprised. You may think that someone is not listening or watching as you describe or do something, but it is rewarding to see them do what you "taught" when they think you are not watching. Taking that a little further, even better to see those you taught teach others of newer generations. You have to be in one place, usually a long time, to see this.

I can recall watching my dad and other "older" people do lots of different things, and from each experience I am sure I learned something new and most of it has even been retained in my brain, sure it may take some time to "recall" the information (my ROM is limited in speed), but it is there.

There are all kinds in the younger generations, the key is to find the ones that want to learn or better yet, have them find you. I have been fortunate to have been able to impart at least a little bit of my knowledge,,, and every time I see someone using what I imparted or passing it on, I get a smile on my face. That great feeling of satisfaction can't be beat!

It all comes down to respect, which it seems, still has to be earned in most cases these days. Not like us oldies who were taught to respect our elders. In our case, the respect is there to start and can only be lost, and, unfortunately these days it often is.

Although I rarely have the experience to add to the discussions, this form represents a generation range from 1924 to the present.

Some things can only be experienced such as growing up on a farm and the experiences associated with same. As for classical music if the children are allowed to see old cartoons that is where they will get a good dose of classical music. I was told by a lady after viewing my case of music cassettes that I was a very disturbed person since my collection was about 1/3 each of classical, rock n roll, country, I soon found out who was the disturbed person.

There was a time before modern distractions that learning from the elders was the accepted if not desired method of gaining experience with out pain. Recently I read that the human attention span was 8 seconds where as a gold fish was 12 seconds. It does not give us much time to instill some knowledge.

In India we have a great prayer in Sanskrit. This prayer is to Lord by the student and the teacher. I do not have to say more. There is no question of saying- what will happen to me if I share my knowledge. Like a lamp- hundreds and thousands of lamps can be lit, without the original lamp loosing its original shine etc. Unfortunately the younger generation has got lot- the mobile, calculator , computer etc and with associated power. BUT FRANKLY they do not UNDERSTAND or bother to think- who makes calculators or computers and how they are made. They got it on silver platter. I won't be surprised if someone says computers or mobiles grow on trees!!!!!

Unfortunately US still retains lead in innovative thinking, while Indian CXXs - run to China and bring container loads. These Cxxs and teachers themselves know little, so how can future generations know anything about innovation or manufacturing- that is what Government (&myself) are feeling sad. Manufacturing is not picking up here. companies are risk averse.

See link http://www.greenmesg.org/mantras_slokas/vedas-om_sahana_vavatu.php

ॐ सह नाववतु ।
सह नौ भुनक्तु ।
सह वीर्यं करवावहै ।
तेजस्वि नावधीतमस्तु मा विद्विषावहै ।
ॐ शान्तिः शान्तिः शान्तिः ॥
Om Saha Nau-Avatu |
Saha Nau Bhunaktu |
Saha Viiryam Karavaavahai |
Tejasvi Nau-Adhiitam-Astu Maa Vidvissaavahai |
Om Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih ||
Meaning:
1: Om, May God Protect us Both (the Teacher and the Student),
2: May God Nourish us Both,
3: May we Work Together with Energy and Vigour,
4: May our Study be Enlightening and not give rise to Hostility,
5: Om, Peace, Peace, Peace.

A good prayer, many a student has been soured by frustration with a teacher that does not communicate well with him/her. On the same footing, many a teacher has been soured to teaching by a student (or a whole room full of them) that does not communicate well with the teacher. LOL We must never forgot to take things lightly, especially not take ourselves too seriously. Was it not Gandhi who spoke these words?

It is actually written in our ancient texts. Mahatama Gandhi- might have brought it to our attention - that is all. Our ancient texts have many more gems.

Surprisingly- I could locate that it using Google search!!! That is science and ancient knowledge - married together!!!

Let me also add that as I am guiding MS & Phd Students myself now- I too have realized that - I too ma learning with them!!!!

I joined a little late and these students had proposed some projects / concepts to the university. BUT in reality- they did not know how to go about and actually convert those concepts into reality. I have worked for nearly 45 years in industry and it was my first assignment to guide such post graduates. That is when I realized - I have tonnes of practical knowledge and many PhD guides who have been purely in academic circles- have little practical sense!!!! So I am better off and I have given solutions to students, sat with them made working models and demonstrated.

The beam on their face, a sense of satisfaction, and learning- they got - is certificate for me!!!!

Excellent! Blessings already yours.

I started working as an engineer in the oilfield 40 years ago. I now work in sales and deal with engineers frequently. Some of the young ones seem interested in learning how things work, but many never leave the office. I think a lot of them have never been to a wellsite and have never actually seen the equipment that is used.

Worse, I've occasionally encountered the attitude that these people don't care about the long term effects of their decisions, "What difference does it make? I'll be working somewhere else by the time this fails." It's not unusual for oil wells to produce for 50 years. Taking shortcuts now can reduce the life of a well by decades.

I bet the companies these folks are working for might not be around either.