Elon Musk Unveils Solar Roof

Uh, er, hm....

I got tired of the hype and tripe and didn't bother to listen to whether he got around to watts, square feet, dollars, etc.

So the guy isn't the best speaker; but how about is ideas and motives?

Same here. I won't get too exited until I can see or do a cost benefit analysis. At what price is self sufficiency worth it?

More gee-wiz tech for the rich....Like a roof isn't already expensive enough...We need a roof tile with an on/off switch for heat transfer...off in the summer, on in the winter...Most of the energy spent on a house is combating temperature....

In Arizona, I can get free solar panels.

Or, so I am told.

This Musk thing looked too much like a Trump rally for me. All fluff and no substance.

I think it's more like renting out your roof space to the power company for $30 a month for 20 years....probably with some nasty clauses in the fine print...

"APS will evaluate homes of interested customers to ensure roofs are sturdy enough for panels (no clay tiles) and that the home is aligned to capture enough sunlight.

...The $30 monthly savings also is more than most solar customers who lease their panels achieve. Officials with SolarCity Corp., a California company that leases rooftop solar systems, have said that when customers lease panels from them, their new, lower power bills combined with the lease payments bring about $5 to $10 a month in savings for customers."...

http://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/2014/07/28/aps-wants-put-free-solar-panels-homes/13299121/

Yes, the "free" installation sounds good........................................just like a politicians promises.

When I consider that we are paying about $200 per month for the Triple Pay Comcast package (TV-landline-Internet) and about $200 per month for a whole family Sprint wireless plan, achieving $5 to $10 savings on my electric bill sounds almost pointless. There are much bigger targets to hit before the electric bill. Stopping air leaks and making sure the insulation in the house is appropriate for the region will save much more on your electric bill than putting solar panels on the roof for those of us who didn't buy a LEEDS house. Solar should be the last thing you do to save money at any cost.

So after all the smart stuff is done, i.e. insulation, stop any unwanted air exchange, etc it would make sense. Especially if you could some how reduce or increase solar gain depending need.

Not at my age.

Yep, plus I would have to cut all my shade trees thereby raising my A/C usage. I really need to do the 'smart' stuff on my house too.

Yup; Solar doesn't make much sense in the woods.

If using the roof as a solar collecting area in hot climes it might be beneficial to allow the free flow of air between panel back and roof surface. The ability to control that air flow would allow some control of thermal gain through the roof.

Solar gain - good when it is cold; bad when it is hot. What a great benefit it would be to control it at will.

Put the solar panels in the pasture, automatic louvers on the roof, and a thermal exchange system between the habitable and attic space.

Why not just make new construction codes that require solar thermal walls on the south sides? There is a design out there already tried and tested in Wisconsin or some other cold place, where the summer temperature was not bad, and the winter temperature indoors averaged in the middle to high 60's (it was a multi-car garage/shop).

If I have time later I will search once again for that link.

Forced consumption through regulation isn't the optimal approach. Make it pay and it will find its way.

Correct! Just as a side note - where I live, the government is thinking of making electric heat mandatory in new construction. Why you ask?? Because at this point in time with all the new "green" energy already on line and more coming on line, we are in a surplus situation which will only increase. So mandating electric heat seems to be the "thing to do" to use up the surplus, at least according to the government. Good luck with that!!! However, they may just try to push it through as we will be having an election in about 2 years, and I think they have figured out that they (the current party in power) will not get re-elected. Enough of my political rant, yours is a lot closer.

OK, maybe not forced, but like you say, it should be more available as a standard feature. It really does not cost so much to put in a solar wall, far less than putting on Tesla Tiles, etc. I did like the part where they dropped large round weights on various roof materials, and the Tesla Tile resisted impact damage far better than the competition. I have to bow to Mr. Musk on that master stroke. If the tiles outlast the home owner, then they should easily pay for themselves over the life of the project.

Solar heating:

"This installation was completed in 2007 - and has been adequate to maintain the indoor temperature above 65°F/18°C since that time – even though outdoor temperatures in winter dropped below -20°F/-29°C and even though the nine-foot by nine-foot overhead door has been opened every morning and every evening.

Before the end of 2009 the panels had saved more than their purchase price in fuel costs and the owner expects that the future savings will exceed the original cost of the entire structure. He told me he really likes starting every day (checking his livestock) in a nice warm truck."

This was a really good job of understanding the issues of air circulation, and no powered fans were used, and cold air reverse flow was blocked very well.

Thanks for the link.. I'm a fan of such systems and want to make and use similar panels some day.. The garage would be a great start!

I think that is the best one I ever saw on the topic of how to utilize solar heating, passively with no auxiliary power consumption.

More regulations by unelected bureaucrats are NOT what the country needs. Codes can be good to prevent disasters but taken too far stifle creativity, individuality and innovation IMHO.

Yes, I have to admit, most localities are too stupid to figure it out, that passive solar is greatly needed, and has not been properly utilized in virtually any construction in our country. They would probably write the code wrong and make it illegal to put in the kind of passive solar structure I linked to, in favor of some piece of crap designed by their cousin-in-law uncle pappy.

I believe in a free AND OPEN market place; where source energy and distribution costs drive the market.

In a free and open market there would be an electric energy price that defines a price point where it would be more profitable to purchase power from the grid than burn coal.

If the production side of the cost equation for a coal fired plant ever reaches equilibrium with Solar - Wind - Tidal there will be a transformational change in energy sources; but only in a free and open market.

The SWT power sources need access to the grid to evolve; AND for the distribution companies who own and operate that grid to profit from it. Purchasing SWT power at 10 percent below the cost of production at a coal plant and reselling at market price seems like it would make great business.

I believe one of the major obstacles in reaching that threshold is temporary storage technologies for grid balancing. Combining Pumped Storage with the rapidly evolving chemical and kinetic storage systems will leave the world’s electrical power production and distribution companies more efficient, more robust, more secure, and may I add – more profitable.

No.

At least then, people showed up. Hey you started it!

I would like to see this with molten silicon as the energy storage medium. I don't trust lithium ion battery pack with 210 kWh to be anywhere in or on my home.

Molten silicon would at least make a great light show while it burned the house down, but only if containment broke down. Even then it depends on how far it spread over the garage shed concrete wood floor.

At 1400 °C, molten silicon might just flash the studs to flames instantly at a distance of 2-3 meter, depending on reflectivity of paint?

Corporate solar - what should be as simple a system as possible with an eye on affordability quickly becomes expensive when the ooooh's and ahhh's of the puddled masses become the driving force behind the bottom line.

Is this another item that is made someplace other than in the u.s. ?