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Advise on Preparation Of Load Schedule

11/22/2016 2:01 AM

Hi

I recently entered a site engineering job and they provided me a load schedule in which KW ratings and KVA ratings were given and i Calculated the ampere ratings and also got the demanda factor values as well. I am still not confident about my calculation though. The Generator rating is 500KVA, system voltage is 415V, p.f is 0.8. I used to work in a panel board manufacturing company. Plus i have no senior electrical engineer who i can ask my doubts to.If there is anything else i should consider please advise..

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#1

Re: Advise on Preperation Of Load Schdule

11/22/2016 3:38 AM

Can't read your spreadsheet too well, but if the kW figures are motor shaft output, you need efficiency in there somewhere.

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#4
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Re: Advise on Preperation Of Load Schdule

11/22/2016 4:36 AM

there are two bore well motors and two mono block pumps. I made the SLD with a 4P MCCB with ELR and CBCT and i put the bus bar as four poles i.e R,Y,B,N and ground as 50%. the rest are all for labour accomodations, staff accomodations, kitchens...

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#5
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Re: Advise on Preperation Of Load Schdule

11/22/2016 4:51 AM

I was only making a general comment. It isn't my field but I suspect the experts would need more detail to help you much.

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#6
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Re: Advise on Preperation Of Load Schdule

11/22/2016 7:07 AM

thank you; your advise was still valuable..

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#7
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Re: Advise on Preperation Of Load Schdule

11/22/2016 7:49 AM

No problem!

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#12
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Re: Advise on Preperation Of Load Schdule

11/23/2016 8:24 AM

What is the object of your load schedule exercise, design the distribution, check the generator sizing? The load factors given to you, a simple percent could include, or may not include loads that are mutually exclusive, such as Pump 1 and Backup to Pump 1. Is there a connection to a separate utility, or is the entire installation run with the generator...

Load factors could be as mentioned earlier, pump & motor efficiency after calculation of hydraulic horsepower (fluid power?)

SLD, MCCB, ELR, CBCT are mysterious, at best, maybe Circuit Breaker in there somewhere. 4P breakers are not needed for 3 phase loads.

Without the calculations in the cells, and not being able to read the cells puts us all at a disadvantage to find even glaring errors or assumptions.

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#17
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Re: Advise on Preperation Of Load Schdule

11/24/2016 5:57 AM

If you gave the starting loads KVA + kW (or at least shaft power & speed), start time & running loads of bore well and pumps, plus data on any other motors & the total of other loads (resistive?) one could give an opinion. Otherwise it is a piece of string.....

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#9
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Re: Advise on Preperation Of Load Schdule

11/22/2016 11:58 PM

You either have a better way of viewing his spreadsheet or you have WAY better eyes than I do! I can only read two words; "Electrical Load" near the left bottom There is another word in the same label that I think starts with "Acc", but I can't distinguish the rest, even after enlarging it.

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#10
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Re: Advise on Preperation Of Load Schdule

11/23/2016 3:19 AM

If possible i will send the spread sheet to your personel mail..

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#11
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Re: Advise on Preperation Of Load Schdule

11/23/2016 4:24 AM

I can't read much of it, but I can just about make out some of the headings. One of them says (I think) fluid power, which as a non-expert seems an odd thing to put on a load schedule, as the wire power would depend on pump efficiency as well as motor characteristics.

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#2

Re: Advise on Preperation Of Load Schdule

11/22/2016 4:23 AM

<...they...> - at least there is someone there who can receive questions, then? No joy there?

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#3
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Re: Advise on Preperation Of Load Schdule

11/22/2016 4:31 AM

They are only saying it is okay... but i am not sure at all....

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#8

Re: Advise on Preperation Of Load Schdule

11/22/2016 11:39 AM

If you don't have a copy of NFPA 70: National Electrical Code® you are doomed to fail. It is the the accepted standard almost everywhere.

You must follow all applicable code requirements for your location.

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#13

Re: Advise on Preperation Of Load Schdule

11/23/2016 11:21 AM

CR4 condenses images if they are too big - your picture is only 400 x 260 pixels & unreadable.

Starting kVA & kW,start times & inertias for each load are critical for "black start" of a system from a DG; as is the capacity of the DG to give high kW & kVA without underfrequency/undervolt problems. What the motors will tolerate, 80% generator volts with suitable cabling & considerable frequency drop 90%, could cause other loads to malfunction.

I cannot read enough to even start on the problem and cannot see your DG specification or length of cable to each load. I am not clear if you are at design stage or already have a scheme done by someone else.

It is usually essential to have a start sequence plan for operator/autosequence, it is usually best to do biggest motors first and get past the big frequency/volt drops before more sensitive loads. But I have no idea what constraints your plant has on sequence or which loads are essential. Folk tend to over-estimate loads and have an aversion to measuring what they really have - you have to push hard to get realistic figures, mech engineers may work out the biggest cold loads then pick motor ratings from catalog which are 40 celsius to standard.

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#14
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Re: Advise on Preperation Of Load Schdule

11/23/2016 12:57 PM

If you save your spreadsheet as a .csv file, comma separated values, and view it in Windows notepad you will find it is just a text file. Do "select all" & Ctrl-C to copy it than paste it into the CR4 window. It should then be possible for us to do a copy & paste into a .csv text file & import to a spreadsheet.

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#15
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Re: Advise on Preperation Of Load Schdule

11/23/2016 1:29 PM

Correct! And if the spreadsheet happened to be created on a Mac, the same process can be used, viewing the .csv file in TextEdit or most any word processor.

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#16
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Re: Advise on Preperation Of Load Schdule

11/24/2016 5:53 AM

Thanks for the tip. Please find the load schedule at the bottom. Your help will be much appreciated...

ELECTRICAL LOAD DETAILS
ROOMACLIGHTSPLUG POINTSExhaust
fan
Final Total KWEST Amphere RatingSTD AMPGERE RATINGPH
TonsKWQtyTotal KWWattsQtyTotal
KW
20 A
(KW)
QtyKW10A
(KW)
QtyKWTotal
KW
KWDemand loadAAØOG/ number
MD Office1.50.34510.3456030.183.8413.841.8423.687.520.048.097.8545.283545013
PM office1.50.34510.3456030.183.8413.841.8423.687.520.048.097.8523.641132514
Conference hall1.50.34510.3456020.123.8413.841.8423.687.527.997.7623.348722515
Civil/ Mech Incharge office20.4610.466030.183.8413.841.8423.687.520.048.27.9623.97742516
Civil/ Mech Incharge accom20.4610.466030.183.8413.841.8423.687.520.048.27.9623.97742517
Camp boss20.4610.466020.123.8413.841.8423.687.528.17.8723.684992518
Dispensary20.4610.466030.183.8413.841.8423.687.520.048.27.9623.97742519
Staff Dining20.4620.926040.243.8413.841.8447.3611.212.361236.1415440111
Staff accomodation20.4683.6860241.443.8427.681.841833.1240.80.246.1244.7977.990380320
Labor kitchen & Dining20.4641.846080.483.8427.681.8447.3615.040.317.6617.1551.6391263113
Labour accomodation20.462611.9660523.123.84519.21.84104191.36210.560225.64219.16381.564400321
Consultant office20.4620.926040.243.8413.841.8447.3611.224.5636.9235.8662.4328363319
Store + annex20.4631.386050.33.8413.841.8447.3611.20.0412.9212.5537.7790240112
Site office + lab20.4620.926050.33.8413.841.84611.0414.880.0416.1415.6847.1945350114
accomadation of mig20.4641.8460120.723.8427.681.8447.3615.040.217.817.2952.0484963115
mig office1.50.34520.696060.363.8427.681.8447.3615.040.216.2915.8247.6331450116
Bore well motor2019.4333.820640317
Bore well motor2019.4333.820640318
Water mono block pump54.8614.620361511
Water mono block pump54.8614.620361512
Final Estimated KW508.71494.08
spare6.516.3219.0251920310
Final Estimated KW (including 1.67 % EXTRA)515.21500.4897.01829003
FINAL KVA LOAD644.01625.51871.23799003
Demand Load (KVA)625.83871.6865630
Generator KVA or source500696.42737003
Note : 415V is assumed as supply mains
Demand factor - .97176Say 500 KVA - 1 No + 1 No. Spare
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#18
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Re: Advise on Preperation Of Load Schdule

11/24/2016 7:57 AM

OK. I do not think you have to worry about DG size big enough. This supposes nothing stupid like starting both boreholes together. The borehole motor I estimate as 25 kVA run, 8 x starting = 200 kVA /60kW . Pump 50 kVA start.

Much of your load is for sockets circuits, they will not all be fully loaded. Allowance for diversity on each circuit may be given in "wiring regulations" or associated guidance notes. In UK, "On-site Guide" to BS7671 "Wiring Regulations" gives socket load for an household installation as 100% of largest point + 40% of every other: while offices are 100% of largest point + 70% of every other. Similarly, lighting is 66% household, 90% offices. My feeling is that on a large installation, actual load will be a lot less than maximum.

On the other hand, thermostatic water heaters allow no diversity but "instant type" allow some. "Cooking Appliances" domestic allow 65 amp load on 32 amp circuit. Internet wiring regulations.net have hard copy at much less cost than IET or your company may have electronic version, personally beware the electronic version BS7671+ notes, it runs out in one year so you have to pay same again in a year.

I am surprised AC airconditioners are only 0.346 kW. A lot of them. Could all start at same time if you just close DG breaker - as I wrote you need a "boot-up" plan. Check loads & start demand.

If company has done similar before, see if you can find running hours & kWh generated for DG.

I mention this because loading a diesel continuously below 30% will cause maintenance trouble, lower cycle temperature = coking up. Telecoms repeater power suppliers I dealt with would add resistive load to actual to avoid underload.

I suggest you estimate a typical actual running load + starting load of borehole and ask DG maker for estimated maximum frequency/volt drops/time/recovery time. Get it "from the horses mouth" if you can!

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Advise on Preperation Of Load Schdule

12/08/2016 1:01 AM

Thank you all Especially Dick Warner. I noticed it after i was pointed out that the AC KW ratings were really low, the mechanical engineer took the values from some company and assumed the values were so. I've corrected it and also made the main distribution panel into to two since the load is too high for one 500 KVA generator. This is actually for a site in which company workers and officials will be working in for a period of 1 year and 6 months. I just wasn't sure at all because I worked in a Panel Board manufacturing company and I have no experience in this field. Hopefully your advises will help till a senior electrical engineer is hired.

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#20
In reply to #19

Re: Advise on Preperation Of Load Schdule

12/08/2016 5:53 AM

Glad to be of help.

A 250 kW load for 18 months will need about 1100 tonnes of fuel @ 24 h running/day - that's a 15 tonne tanker each week. You will also need lubricating oil, fuel & oil filters, other consumables.

Time to wake up the purchase dept and decide where you can buy, how to get it to site & into tanks.

Consult engine maker for advise on fuel & oil quality - cheap does not pay & you will be dependent on engines for 18 months.

Standard sumps on engines may only give days before top-up - have you got facilities for on-load topping? Or is power strictly during day? How often will maintenance be reqd, who will do it? Take care about under-loading engine as I noted.

What are fuel storage arrangements? Remote sites always had tank with good water space at bottom, below take -off and bottom drain tap at low end for water/crud, always two tanks. A fuel delivery can stir up all the water/rust etc in the tank and block filters - must be allowed to settle before tank used. One delivery of bad fuel with water in it could stop both engines without attention to that.

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#21
In reply to #19

Re: Advise on Preperation Of Load Schdule

12/08/2016 11:26 AM

Like 67model, Glad I could help. Each of us has a different set of knowledge, and based on that knowledge, will tend to notice different problems. I have zero experience with Diesel Generator Sets, while 67model obviously has considerable.

Good luck on you project

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