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IdeaSmith
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South Australia Power Blackout #2

12/08/2016 9:15 PM

Earlier I posted this about the blackout in South Australia.

Since the thread disappeared from the main page I make this a new post.

Here is another view on the issue which seems to be on a lobbyist page and with the expected finger pointing.

If you read the discussion underneath find the comments from GiveADogABone and particularly from DJR96.

The analyses from DJR96 is truly an interesting read and holds for me a good explanation of what happened without putting the blame on either way of power generation.

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Tornado
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#1

Re: South Australia Power Blackout #2

12/08/2016 11:11 PM

Duplicate thread alert.

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IdeaSmith
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#3
In reply to #1

Re: South Australia Power Blackout #2

12/08/2016 11:15 PM

Its part #2 with new reading material.

Feel free to take your comments there.

Thanks Tornado for the OT.

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PWSlack
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#5
In reply to #3

Re: South Australia Power Blackout #2

12/09/2016 6:12 AM

Then add it to the original thread.

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lyn
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#2

Re: South Australia Power Blackout #2

12/08/2016 11:11 PM

Duplicate thread!

South Australia Power Blackout
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IdeaSmith
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#4
In reply to #2

Re: South Australia Power Blackout #2

12/08/2016 11:17 PM

Duplicate would mean it says the same but it doesn't.

Thanks for including the link which I did in my post as well.

Thats a true duplicate!

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lyn
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#9
In reply to #4

Re: South Australia Power Blackout #2

12/09/2016 1:08 PM

Still, A new thread is a waste.

If someone wants to look at the historical trail they have to go back and forth.

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#6

Re: South Australia Power Blackout #2

12/09/2016 8:21 AM

The analysis by Lloyds and RES is far from impartial. They are currently trying to sell 100MW lithium ion battery storage plant to South Australia.

Beyond that, the article notes that a windstorm knocked over three major transmission lines disrupting power from Victoria, yet in the simulation showing how their improved system would ride through the storm, power from Victoria shows a substantial increase, not a reduction or total loss.

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RAMConsult
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#7

Re: South Australia Power Blackout #2

12/09/2016 11:26 AM

The following are the only useful comments in the entire article:

"...The blackout was caused when huge storms, with winds of up 260km/h, brought down three major transmission lines, in turn causing changes in output and frequency that caused the link to Victoria to separate and the grid to go “system black”..." Correct, Mother Nature is the very definition of "Force Majeure".

"...most energy experts say the blackout was inevitable no matter what generation was operating in the state..." Especially when combined with incompetent system management (see next comment).

"...Questions have also been raised about why the Australian Energy Market Operator took no pre-emptive action, despite clear warnings of the approaching storm..." This is exactly what I stated in the earlier thread.

A complete reading of the comments in the article doesn't really add anything except to show the battle between the various energy philosophies. Unfortunately blog entries usually represent a battle between the supporters of the blog and it's detractors, and any comments by the moderator are almost always biased to the blog's advertisers.

DJR96 and GiveADogABone do appear to be less biased than the other posters, but some of their comments aren't 100% technically correct.

Thanks for the update, I'm looking forward to reading a comprehensive event analysis prepared by power engineers, not managers or bloggers.

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67model
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#8

Re: South Australia Power Blackout #2

12/09/2016 12:39 PM

Definitely biased to wind and solar power.

The cause of failure was exceptional weather bringing down power lines. "Cherry-picking", is "wise after the event", from an incomplete analysis - to blame conventional plant, which is limited, even if it has spare capacity, in how fast it can respond. Then comparing idealised inverters, with presumed instant response and overload capacity equal to the demand.

The current power systems grew up from distributed small systems, which became more interconnected because it made supply more reliable and cheap. Consumers with an annual average demand of <1 kW expect to be able to turn on a 9 kW shower and instantly get the service of 12 horses.

The system only keeps working because the millions of connected installations average out the load making it mostly predictable (including effect of major sport event viewing and wind forecasts) and manageable. All except a few percent of generators work at maximum power and cannot give more - are any "available whenever needed" power plants designed to work at maximum efficiency at part load?.

Frequency is a tool for tolerating sudden loads (like a major line or generator station tripping) because load falls with frequency, along with limited number of generators run part-load, responding to frequency fall. Beside that, voltage can be reduced but beyond these, consumers must be cut-off to save the system.

Where is guaranteed overload capacity in solar or wind? They are not even available whenever you need them!

When challenged about what happens if there is no wind, proponents say power can be transferred from where there is wind - which assumes a substantial power grid.

The type of generation for electric power does not alter the problems of management above, but solar/wind effectively add to demand fluctuations.

As I wrote in the previous "blackout 1", the real decision for South Australia is whether they rebuild the lines with reinforced or new stronger towers/lines to withstand a higher windspeed.

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67model (1); IdeaSmith (2); lyn (2); PWSlack (1); RAMConsult (1); Tornado (1); truth is not a compromise (1)

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