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Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/11/2007 11:48 AM

Apparently Sir Winston Churchill commisioned the manufacture of 100 naval vessels during the close of WWII which did not come to be. These vessels were alledgedly going to be unsinkable, fireproof aircraft staging points to weaken the Germans stronghold in the mid north Atlantic.

Iceberg ships

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#1

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/11/2007 1:02 PM

I think the aircraft might go for a flip.

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#2

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/11/2007 1:26 PM

What a ludicrous idea...almost as barmy as a 'bouncing bomb' !

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/11/2007 5:21 PM

I too thought it a bit, well, unorthodox. The prototype was built to 1/10 scale.

I do like the Pykrete though.

And honestly I don't feel it ludicrous, just unusual.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/11/2007 5:30 PM

I was being sarcastic... As the'bouncing Bomb' was a great success designed by Barnes Wallis.

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#5
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Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/12/2007 2:51 AM

Yes, there's actually a lot of information out there about these iceberg vessels - a combination of ice and sawdust makes for a bullet-proof (even the big stuff, like 20 mm cannon fire), slow to melt, giant (like miles long), aircraft carrier. Seems they had worked out how to make the material and were ready to deploy, then the war ended and ruined everybody's fun. Dang!!!

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#46
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Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/16/2007 2:27 AM

The bouncing bomb was a brilliant idea, and I'd say it was a great success as well. However, I do recall hearing that it wasn't as successful as hoped in terms if inflicting damage on Germany. They recovered from most of the damage fairly quickly according to one programme I saw (?). The film about it all is a classic.

Another bit of Trivia ( which vermin alludes to) was that Habakuk may have become reality if resources had not been required to develop the bomb. (Hey, my polar bear plan could have become real Del - run for them them tower blocks !)

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#47
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Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/16/2007 3:06 AM

The genius of Barnes Wallice! He only got the plane to do the tests because he designed it!

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#48
In reply to #47

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/16/2007 4:02 AM

Hey, I'd forgotton that bit. You tri-trivad me !

How did he get the Chinese to make those ping-pong balls though ?

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#49
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Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/16/2007 10:33 PM

NAZI Uber weapon...

Of course, this is the back of the plane, but I think they should have built it with this as the front... Sure would have scared the hell outta me if I'd been in B-17!!!

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#50
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Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/17/2007 2:22 AM

It looks sort of like Big Bird. Those kids would have scared me more.

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#51
In reply to #49

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

09/16/2007 12:50 PM

I remember something about this plane, do you remember what it was?

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#52
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Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

09/17/2007 12:48 AM

Every time I see that picture, I think "Now that looks really cool and nasty!" Then, I have to remind myself that it's a picture of the tail section. For pure style, they should have built it backwards!

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#53
In reply to #49

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

09/26/2007 6:26 PM

That's the Horten IX (more info at http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/AC/aircraft/Horten-HoIX/HO-IX.php) It was pretty neat looking. Something I recall reading said it was flown as a glider with dead weight in place of the engines as the engines intended weren't ready. Then something happened to end the project. What was it. Hm. Oh yeah, the war ended and the Germans lost. Still, nice plane. The Horten bros. did a lot of flying wing research some of which probably ended up in yankee hands and maybe was of some use to Northrop when they were doing their big flying wing bomber (also a pretty neat looking thing).

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#54
In reply to #49

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

09/26/2007 7:53 PM

well you prompted me to do some homework:

Horton HO 229

Origin: Gothaer Waggonfabrik AG. to Horten design

Type: Single seat fighter/bomber

Engines:
Two Junkers Jumo 004B turbojets
Thrust: 1,980lb (900kg)

Dimensions:
Span 16.75m
Length 7.47m
Height 2.80m

Weights:
Empty: 10,140lbs (4600kg)
Max. loaded: 19,840lb (9000kg)

Speed:
607mph (977km/h)

Ceiling:
52,500ft (16,000m)

Range:
1,970 miles (3170km) at 393mph (635km/h) with two drop tanks

Armaments: Planned
Four Mk 103 or Mk 108 cannon
Plus
Two 1,000kg bombs

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#9
In reply to #2

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/12/2007 8:43 AM

Hi Del. Great idea, but with all this global warming about it may be a bit risky! Spencer.

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#45
In reply to #9

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/15/2007 8:06 PM

well, we obviously need to wait till the next ice age, then we can make all of our boats from pykrete!

Scooter

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#6

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/12/2007 2:57 AM

Poor Hendrick!!! OK, who's the rat-bastard that keeps ratting out posts like Hendrick's, and it's always with 5 votes?!

Who is this malignant, mysterious "Gang of five?!" I think we deserve some answers!!!

Show yourself! Or do you prefer to remain hidden like an evil, festering cabal that lurks in the shadows of CR 4!!!

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#7

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/12/2007 6:46 AM
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#10
In reply to #7

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/12/2007 9:26 AM

shame on me. Can I claim innocence by ignorance?

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/12/2007 11:05 AM

No ! I already claim that .

The suiff isn't obvious - I missed out when I posted stuff on the Polar Bear thread. I didn't notice that Chris Leonard had already mentioned the subject years before.LOL. The whole story of Pykrete is covered in CR4 (mainly via links) and also on TV. There is some very good background to it both on the web and TV. The guy who first had the idea is an intriguing 'eccentric' who's life ended in quite a tragedy ( used by the establishment etc). Canadian members can probably dig a fair bit on the whole story as a lot of trials took place in Canada. Don't get me wrong, theres nothing wrong with subjects being reperated in threads - this is probably the first specific one. Kudos for doing so. These lesser known engineering facts are worth knowing about. Carry on, and if it gets interesting I'll see what other links I can find to chuck into the pot.

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#12
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Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/12/2007 11:38 AM

thanks. As a designer I feel it very important to recognize those lesser knowns, eccentric etc. Often these are the ones who are a half step ahead of their time. And, well, since I am one half step behind I have a good chance of meeting at the zero point.

I try and vindicate myself and them to some degree; me for not finishing school per se and them for the poor timing, in my own humble and subtle little ways.

More seriously, I like the idea of revisiting these ideas for modern applications.

I try and look at old posts, but as you mentioned, some of this stuff is somewhat buried.

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#16
In reply to #12

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/13/2007 2:25 AM

All those eccentric types are fascinating. A lot of them were 'used' by Governments, and subsequently dumped when it was felt they were no longer needed. Pike doesn't exactly compare to Turing for brains/end-story but their are similarities. Many people in Science,Engineering and Mathematics have that weird mix of genius and eccentricity - genius seems to arise from being unconventional and having a different perspective on life. Sadly for me, being barking mad has yet to produce any signs of genius !

I was about to suggest that innovative ideas seem to 'pop up from nowhere', but I reckon it is probably already covered somewhere in CR4. Some of the best bits to be found in CR4 are buried in threads simply because folk spontaneously go of topic. A good example is the recent UFO blog - who would expect to find so much interesting stuff hidden within that subject. When I remember ( which is not that often) I chuck a keyword into CR4s own Search engine and it generally finds something good.

Your point about re-evaluating old ideas for new applications is spot on. The concept of Pykrete is probably far from useless. Whether somebody will one day read of it and think of a great application, or a problem will find it's solution because somebody recalls reading of Pykrete is anyones guess. Either way, bringing the subject up from time to time is no bad thing. There are some Challenge Questions on the subject of "Ice" that you may find interesting if you haven't seen them.

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#17
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Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/13/2007 2:30 AM

It's proably going to be usfull on some distant planet... which for the sake of argument we shall call Tharg.

Thargian dust mixed with some appropriate fluid could make beautiful ships utilising little raw material or energy, vital for early colonisation.

Permit me to sell you some shares in the Thargian Delkrete Shipping Venture ?

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#18
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Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/13/2007 2:35 AM

I'll take bleen shares!!!

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/13/2007 2:41 AM

Cheers Verm, I knew I could count on you! (all the way to eleven!)

(Gotta admit I had to Google Bleen ... )

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#20
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Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/13/2007 2:55 AM

Hey, are you and vermin taking the pykrete here ! Now I'm going to go and invent something very clever with it, then you'll be sorry. Wait 'till you wake up to see Polar Bears prowling Harlow and Silicon Alley. Long haired hippies will seem like a fond memory. A silly Thames barrier won't keep my Armada of bears out Del. Hmphh. The carrier will dock at a secret beach and they'll all march overland. Gosh is my spelling gone bad.

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#21
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Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/13/2007 3:32 AM

Yeh... I bet that secret beach is near the secret bunker...you know the one with the sign posts!

I didn't know that female Polars are all called Amanda !

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#22
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Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/13/2007 3:47 AM

LOL

Ms Huggenkiss.

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#23
In reply to #16

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/13/2007 5:47 AM

Hi Kris. Indeed you are right, one of our most famous and long forgotten engineers is "James Bridley". He was the man who gave us the first real canals here in the UK. Born 1716 died 1772, he was responsible for advancing the cause of the industrial revolution. It is one thing manufacturing goods, but another thing trying to move those goods over vast distances to their final destination. In his day there were no motorways, not even a single tarmaced road. He devised a system of canals all over the country so that manufactures could move their products from one end of the country to the other end. Most of these canals are still in existence and used by pleasure boats. Today there is even talk of excavating new canals. Spencer.

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#24
In reply to #23

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/13/2007 6:07 AM

Hi Spencer,

I didn't know the name Bridley, but Canals are very cool. I'm not sure that the leisure industry would allow much scope for going back to Industrial usage, but stranger things have happened. Even without specifically being used for Industry, they still inspire some great Engineering thinking ( eg Falkirk Wheel). I used to visit Stoke Bruerne a lot, which as you probably know is a major point on The Grand Union. If memory serves, they are nearly about to start a major renovation on one of the Inclined Plane lifts. Next time I'm in the area I'll go check - you can't beat a nice pint by a Canal-side pub ! Years ago I went over the Pontcysyllte and it's one heck of a drop down when your on a boat looking down !

I'll look up Bridley sometime, he sound a bit like one of my hero's Bazalgette.

Cheers, Kris

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#25
In reply to #24

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/13/2007 6:14 AM

Yeh..those aqueducts look soooooo.... freaky!

They seem to defy common sense...a 1/4" of steel plate holding all that water & a barge???

Nah! It's just not possible... better have another pint quick!

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#26
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Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/13/2007 6:40 AM

Now you know damn well I was talking about the height/vertigo thing you Manx. Just look at the poor person in that boat. Could be sitting there all casual reading Cats digest, get startled by looking over the shoulder at some Welsh Choir in the valley below, and splosh ! Maybe even 'splatt' if it's a jolly bad day.

Stick to building Thames Barriers, d'ya think the next one will be big enough ? The tidal surge that is ! You'll be laughing when the Millennium Dome is floating in yer garden. ner ner ne ner ner..

Just how how many is 9 ?

LOL. I hear Nutkin approaching...........

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#31
In reply to #25

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/13/2007 12:40 PM

Hi Del. The weight of the barge(narrow boat) can be discounted as it displaces its own weight in water!!!!! Spencer.

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#32
In reply to #31

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/13/2007 12:47 PM

Yeh, I know all that ...

But it's the difference between how it is and how it looks.

Ya gotta remember I'm a scaredy cat !

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#27
In reply to #24

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/13/2007 6:58 AM

Kriss, you're not dead! (One of those would look great in a glass of whisky...)

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#28
In reply to #27

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/13/2007 7:26 AM

Well ya see, when me plus boat landed, it was like one of those NDE's they're chatting about on the 'dousing' (sic) thread. There was a light at the end of the tunnel (probably a train) and I also felt like I was several different people. 'So what's new ?' I thought. Picked mesen up, and the rest is kind of history.

I'm alreet now of course.

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#30
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Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/13/2007 10:14 AM

I visited your link to mesen. I a concerned. very very concerned. Is there a wound yet? Or has the injury to your head scabbed over

From 'pinchin a loaf' to world peace. That is where we got to from ice boats? Gotta love it!

cr3

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#34
In reply to #30

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/13/2007 2:56 PM

LOL. In the interests of science ( and since Dr Gillian Mckeith views such things with curious regularity on Television), I present for your delectation and delight ; ahem, something to view whilst not eating/talking/thinking/or anything else really.

Oh my good grief, the study of such things is held to be valid medical study. Perfectly good science, but for some reason I feel disinclined to investigate further.

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#44
In reply to #34

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/15/2007 6:53 AM

That looks painful.

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#33
In reply to #24

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/13/2007 12:52 PM

Hi Kris. I have travelled through all of the navigable canals in the UK and you are right, nothing beats a pint of real ale at a canalside pub. On another note, when I was in the merchant navy I passed through five of the worlds great canals and nothing beats the Panama canal for sheer size and scope. Spencer.

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#35
In reply to #33

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/13/2007 3:06 PM

... real ale..

Have you really been through them all ? (I'll avoid the bad joke ). I hear that occasionally people cross to France from England so as to explore stuff over there. A flotilla of boats get lashed together for crossing the channel. Sounds like fun, though from what little I know the canals are quite a bit wider. One of Rick Steins cookery series was based on travelling through France on a barge. All those locks at Foxton are part of the enjoyment, and it's nice to pitch up in the middle of nowhere in the evening.

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#36
In reply to #35

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/13/2007 3:36 PM

Hi Kris. You should try the Anderton boat lift in Cheshire, it was built in 1875 and it is still in use. Spencer.

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#38
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Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/14/2007 2:07 AM

The name was familiar, but I had to check. Very neat. Good old Victorian Engineering. The Crystal Palace is one of my favourites because of the construction methods. Adam Hart-Davis did a very good programme about it, and went so far as to re-construct a (very) small part of it.

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#40
In reply to #38

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/14/2007 5:29 AM

Hi Kris. Yes, another forgotten great engineer designed the Crystal Palace, Sir Joseph Paxton. He started life as a humble gardener then went on to acheive great things as an engineer. There are so many unsung engineers out there, and I do believe that is one of the things that has caused the decline in British engineers. When I was at school I had to learn about these guys, but the children of today never even get to hear about them! At the top of my list would be I.K.Brunel, followed by Tesla. Spencer.

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#41
In reply to #40

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/14/2007 9:19 AM

I agree, it's a shame so many great Engineers are little known. I usually keep an eye out for excuses to mention some of the ones I know of on CR4. Schools would probably argue that there is not enough time in the curriculum now, having to devote hours to IT and so on. It's a shame, especially since TV is so full of drivel these days that such things are not as widely covered. Waahh - I could get all nostalgic for the days when there were only a few channels. Heck, even spotting a child reading an educational book of their own free-will is rare now.

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#42
In reply to #41

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/14/2007 9:22 AM

I was an avid reader of my Dad's 'Amateur Photographer'...

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#43
In reply to #42

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/14/2007 9:32 AM

LOL

<coffee on screen distress occurring>

It's a bit late, but did Sir enjoy the weekend ?

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#37
In reply to #23

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/14/2007 12:38 AM

What about Isambard Kingdom Brunel? Didn't he invent the "Living Bra?"

If we were to excavate the entire British Ilse, it would make a lot more room for maritime cargo. You guys are so heavily taxed you can buy anything anyway. So what's the loss?

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#39
In reply to #37

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/14/2007 2:12 AM

Bra ? Nooo, due to being a vertically challenged Victorian he just took the 'bigger is better' thing too far........

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#13
In reply to #10

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/12/2007 3:29 PM

Only if you are a policeman!

Explanation:- Ignorance of the law is no excuse!

However the police do noot have to know the law...they can arrest you and then work out why afterwards!

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/12/2007 3:33 PM

Del del Gato, no one knows this more than I.

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/12/2007 3:38 PM

LOL

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#8

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/12/2007 7:30 AM

Long ago and faraway these ice berg carriers were described in some detail. I believe in Mechanics Illustrated or Popular Science magazines. The proposal as I remember was to incorporate saw dust ?? into the ice so as to lower the temperature and cause the floating bergs to grow. That's recollection clouded by many, many years.

Bob

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#29
In reply to #8

Re: Aircraft carrier made of Ice.

08/13/2007 9:50 AM

The sawdust provided two properties -- it made the ice non-brittle and provided insulation to reduce the size of the cooling plant needed to keep the berg frozen.

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