Tracking a Dead Circuit

When pulling any outlets to check for loose wires, beware that such wires may be live. The luckiest find would be a loose wire in the breaker panel, which could be hooked back up (with the breaker turned off, of course.)

Save your money and call an electrician before you hurt yourself or some innocent bystander....I understand you want to help her out, but you're not qualified, licensed or insured....the most you should be willing to do is find an honest reasonably priced electrician for her....If , God forbid, the house should burn down after you worked on the wiring in the house, and it was determined that the fire was caused by an electrical short or overload, you could be held responsible and lose everything....It's not worth it...If you want to work as electrician, take the time to learn the trade, get your license and liability insurance, and go into the business...

It's unlikely that any kind of gadget can solve such a compilated mess. For my 10-cents opinion. I'd get a cheap battery light you can just slap on the wall. Next step is to get a fully quallified sparky to assesss the mess of wiring.

That's rather glum, but solve the immediate problem so that your friend does not trip in the dark. Next step is explaining that a full wiring survey/assessment is needed. In an ideal world you neighbour could get it all done as new. but few of us live in such a world. A decent sparky will be able to make things 'safe' at not too much cost - legal requirements are not the same as a perfect system.

Without hands on observation, it's impossible to suggest what to do other than play it safe.

you and electricity don't mix

"Operator error"?

Could the light have been on a switched circuit? Some duplex outlets are wired for one outlet on all the time, the other outlet switched.

An aging person might have forgotten that the light was switched from that not-so-obvious switch around the doorway.

But my first reaction was a poor contact from aluminum wire, too.

All the outlets that appear to be on that circuit are dead. None of the breakers are tripped.

Seemingly dead. Based on detail so far I'm uncomfortable at leaving the OP with that conclusion. You did not say otherwise, I'm just playing the part of Ghost from Christmas Smugnitude. The new member may well be clued up on possible options, but......( It's just a bad rumour that I have done such as to suggest somebody stick their head in a microwave oven, etc, etc )

That's a squirrely idea.

I use this for that.

American Recorder ... $4.99 Google Trusted StoreMusicians..

'American Recorder...' 'Google Trusted StoreMusicians...'

Wtf is that, a mains tuner?

I actually have one of those and have found it to be quite useful in assessing 110V AC feeder circuit health.

Enough said?

OP needs a real, licensed master electrician on this one. There is no telling what that guy will find that needs addressing before it leads someone to death by shock or a house fire.

I have at least two at home and one here at work.

We have over 300 110V outlets scattered along our Main Street to feed Christmas decorations.

I've found that with a little training even one of our probation conscripts can be taught to read it.

If you don't have a Kill-O-Watt, get one. They're only for 110V, but they can tell you a lot for under $30.00 USD.

^{_{(Not an endorsement)}}

Oooooo....Daddy want one for Christmas! Just the thing for someone interested in power in - power out considerations.

My 1st thought was a pen tester too

but too often advising a novice on electrical testing of anything turns out to be a bad idea.I got the impression he's already over his head. tell RAM to go out with his Wiggy

If I had my way, those damn things would be banned.

well it's a good thing you don't. It's an incredibly useful tool.

I know of some misleading "readings" that have resulted in at least one 277v shock.

yes.. and if you scratch your head with it it will beep from the static charge.

I'm aware of the situations where it can provide a false reading, but it's a great place to start and perfect for residential electrical troubleshooting.

I'd (almost) never touch conductor I didn't test with a meter or a wire and a working bulb. At 277 The window for error is quite small.

A quick flick on a 15A conductor with a dry finger is about like licking a 9V with a shot of espresso. Not very pleasant, but effective.

I'm conscious of the dangers involved. I have a friend that got to a commercial job early and tagged out the main panel. Another guy (master electrician) came in and (like an idiot) assumed the panel tag was from the previous day. He removed the tag and energized the circuit. My friend is fortunately still with us, but that was his last day as a master electrician.

..A little brain power goes a long way in keeping oneself out of harms way, but an idiot can wreck the best laid plans.

I think there is merit in guiding less skilled people with on the proper and safe way to use tools and equipment that they are interested in. As long as they have interest (like the op) they probably have the aptitude.

Of course, I'm not of the doom and gloom sky is falling mindset. If the master of the trade can fail.. 277.. tag.. test pen or whatever.. It's not the tool that failed. it's the brain

They can save you from a "shocking" experience!

How will a non-contact voltage tester help if, as the OP says, "All the outlets that appear to be on that circuit are 'dead'."?

Unless I'm even dumber than has been suggested here several times, it would seem to me that if there is no voltage there, it's "dead", and if there is voltage there, it is not dead and may not be a part of the "dead" circuit or may be the last outlet before the bad connection/outlet.

Now admittedly, electricity is not my first language.

lose a neutral and the circuit is "dead" but the "hot" still is so if you touch the hot and you're grounded you have a complete circuit and you're zapped.

Correct, an non-contact voltage tester's only value is as a no-go device; i.e., if it beeps then there's voltage within its range. A lack of response tells you nothing about the state of the wiring, nor will it tell you anything about what's live inside the box until each conductor is probed. Worse still, if the wiring is disturbed in the process of pulling out the receptacle or switch, you may cause a loose connection to again become tight enough to re-energize a poor connection.

If you don't know your tools and their idiosyncrasies then you shouldn't be doing the job.

As I said, the only time I use any AC electrical tester is when I'm "tuning the Mains" with my little yellow thingy.

I wondered if the mains sounded a bit flat today. Normally the pitch is midway between A₁^#/B₁^♭ and B₁.

Have you been tweaking it again? How do you expect me to sing along?

I lost the little yellow thingy, so I'm tuning by ear today.

A "fox and hound" test set may do it.

Triplett Fox & Hound Junior ... $49.99 Fry's Electroni... Free shipping

wrong tool.

the black lead must be grounded to get the best signal on a wire you are tracing. if the wire being traced were jiggled live it would blow the transmitter end.

Great for data/tel, A/V, burg/fire etc. but not so much household AC.

plus

and a little

would do him well.

..that and some of those beige "twister" wire nuts to replace any of questionable merit.

If you use this test tool first to calibrate your flinch response it can be much more safe.

I also recommend standing on one leg to break if you're unsure of the current of the circuit you are testing.

Most "circuit tracers" are no use on a dead circuit!

The break in the live could be in the closest wire to its breaker or fuse. You could have a break in the neutral - which is more awkward to trace.

I would suggest a long wire from main incoming board to "live" switched terminal of a "free" insulated socket. Better still, get a socket with a double pole (live and neutral switch).

Connect a "probe" wire to the other terminal of the socket and connect it into an insulated "meter" probe lead - it is highly recommended that this be one with a spring-loaded insulating cover over the probe end which is locked until hand released from the safe end.

Put a low rated lamp into your free socket, like a "night light" or a neon lamp socket tester.

Make sure any live parts on your socket etc are covered against contact.

Connect the wire end back near the distribution board to a known good outlet live, say plug into a socket - a low rated fuse or MCB in the wire at this point is good.

Probe sockets on a good circuit, then the suspect dining room circuit, if the lamp lights, you know you have an intact neutral to that point. Go right back to the failed lamp if everywhere is dry - do not forget the rubber boots, overalls and gloves. It is as well to check working neutrals are marked N, correct wire colour and conform to conventional left/right or markings on sockets.

At this point, you may have found that the neutral is intact all the way to the failed lamp or that it is open to everywhere. Make a final check at the last good point with a hair dryer or similar heavier load plugged into your socket - sometimes a poor joint will fail any appliance but work for a test meter or test lamp.

Next, connect the lead back near the main board to the neutral or earth (ground) and repeat the process checking the live points. Check out your lamp on a known good outlet, particularly if you have connected to earth, which may sometimes come from an earth rod and not have a low resistance to neutral.

At this point, you may be able to turn off breakers/pull fuses to find the right circuit of the many which feeds the dining room.

Or maybe you discovered neither live nor neutral are intact. You will have to energise an outlet on dining room circuit from live of another circuit (via a 60W lamp in the wire as current limit) and test the others to find which are live using a live circuit tracer gadget or your test lamp, which might find a hot wire in the board when all breakers are open (except on circuit you use to liven-up dining room).

It may be you end up estimating the most likely route for a hidden wire or conduit with a buried joint - a "treasure hunt" grade metal detector may help.

I have fed 1000 Hz, 1 ampere (from a sound amp with 8 ohm resistive series load & isolating transfo) into a neutral from an external earth wire and a pick-up coil connected to a sound amp or a computer with filter software to track wires buried in ceilings or walls too deep for the "electricians/gas man's" wire detectors but these were not in conduit.

Finally, take every precaution to be sure your test kit is safely insulated and check for condition and tighten every joint and socket you expose.

Thanks for replying back with the found solution. :)

Many times we never hear back from the original poster.

Thanks for the update, did this correct all the "dead" outlets? Glad it worked out.

It is very good that you asked our advice, it shows you have good reasoning ability asking for help. It also shows you are not comfortable addressing this issue. As the house is approaching 60 yrs, you have no idea what previous folks have done, I would defer to a pro. The adage "no good deed goes unpunished" applies. I'm pretty good at this, and I would defer, unless it was my own home.

OK, first isolate the branch. Fuses or circuit breakers? The following ASS U Mes you have determined the hot lead is defective and not the return.

1)The fuse/breaker that doesn't change anything is the defective branch. Plug a vacuum or other noise maker into each and every outlet. Make a record of what breaker operates each outlet/switch. (for step 5 below). There is a possibility the entire branch is not defective.

1a) If you can't determine the branch by the above method, the branch is partially defective. Turn off all the breakers and check all the inoperative circuits. This will only be successful if the connections are bad at a defective box.

1b)There is a possibility the output of a box has the bad connection or there is a junction/pull box between the last good outlet and the inoperative outlet.

2)Open each and every outlet and switch box looking for burned wires. Be careful, it is not uncommon to find two separate hot leads in a box.

3)Repair as needed, hopefully this solves the issue, if not you will have to open all the junction/pull boxes looking for same. Repair as needed. For this a sniffer will be useful.

4)You now own the electrical system in this house, any future issues are yours to solve regardless of any causes.

5)Go back to step one above and pick a leg to shut off, check all the boxes on that leg.

6)Proceed to the next leg.

7)You have discovered why master electricians charge seemingly high rates.

Lots of good answers here. I usually don't have to go the answer #30 route, find a tripped GFCI outlet or a loose wire in the back of an outlet first. I hate the push-in connections on outlets. If an electrician is so lazy or greedy to save a minute per outlet not to use the screws for a good connection, he should turn in his license.

I had to replace all the outlets in my sister's house, they had been connected at the back. Most wires were loose, outlets cooked, a really shoddy job.

The loose ground can be a real surprise for any electrician. Whenever I'm at a breaker panel with the cover off, I go down the whole row tightening the whites. With an insulated screwdriver and gloves, it's fairly safe. I have found that the screws on the whites can work loose somehow, some kind of magic.

That is because they allow the smoke to continue to circulate, without being emitted.