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Catch a Star Exploding in Action in 2022

01/13/2017 9:50 AM

"Just five years from now a pair of stars are predicted to merge, forming a glittery and bright new point in the sky."

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/exploding-star-will-light-sky-2022-180961730/

This should be interesting. Hopefully they can narrow down the timeline before it happens.

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#1

Re: Catch a Star Exploding in Action in 2022

01/13/2017 9:55 AM

Ahem - if it is 1800ly away, then it has already happened; it's just that the light from the event hasn't reached here yet. Then, there is no such thing as absolute time....

It's enough to make one's brain hurt.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Catch a Star Exploding in Action in 2022

01/13/2017 10:31 AM
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#5
In reply to #2

Re: Catch a Star Exploding in Action in 2022

01/13/2017 4:01 PM

It is also relatively special.

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#11
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Re: Catch a Star Exploding in Action in 2022

01/13/2017 9:05 PM

The fact that it has already occurred does not require relativity, just a finite speed of light.

It is true that observers moving relative to one another may not experience the same order of events. There is no absolute time. But it has already happened in our frame of reference.

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#13
In reply to #11

Re: Catch a Star Exploding in Action in 2022

01/13/2017 9:43 PM

Not only, but from the photons' perspective, the event 18xx years ago and our observation of it in 2022 will have occurred instantaneously.

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#6
In reply to #1

Re: Catch a Star Exploding in Action in 2022

01/13/2017 4:17 PM

Here's a tangent. "If photons travel at light speed, then they must be the liğhtest and the smallest particles in the entire universe."

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#7
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Re: Catch a Star Exploding in Action in 2022

01/13/2017 4:42 PM

Size of photons is not relevant. They would be the lightest if they existed at rest (zero speed) because they have zero rest mass, but they only exist at the speed of light.

Please do not become another poster child for retro-active abortion.

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#8
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Re: Catch a Star Exploding in Action in 2022

01/13/2017 5:29 PM

That is very rude. Regardless of your nicotine withdrawal symptoms, I think you owe an apology for telling people to drop dead.

Given that mass and energy cannot have a negative magnitude then a particle with zero rest mass is the lightest particle. However, they need not and are not the only particles without mass. A gluon has no mass. Since a photon exists only in motion their "size" is difficult to impossible to measure, nonetheless their wavelength is a significant attribute that determines how small of an item we can probe.

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#15
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Re: Catch a Star Exploding in Action in 2022

01/17/2017 10:24 AM

OK, I apologize to gutmonarch for my nasty remarks.

Right on, gluons are definitely the lightest mass partcile other than photon.

To gutmonarch: yes photons are affected by relativity:

consider what color will a green LED be for stationary observer as someone traveling 0.95c in another frame passes by the stationary observer point of reference: at first the light emitted will be detected to be a shorter wavelength by observer, then after the traveler passes, the LED with shift to a redder color.

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#9
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Re: Catch a Star Exploding in Action in 2022

01/13/2017 6:06 PM

Of course, but are photons subject for relativity?

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#10
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Re: Catch a Star Exploding in Action in 2022

01/13/2017 6:31 PM

Photons have no rest mass, but they have equivalent mass depending on their energy. Nor are they necessarily small. They can be huge. And boy do I mean huge.

Consider, for example, an extremely-low-frequency photon whose wavelength could conceivably measure in millions of light-years (or more. Not quite 0 Hz, but there's a huge difference between zero and not-quite-zero).

Even what are understood in the popular press to be 'conventional' photons - those of visible light - have dimensions that are hard to nail down and their size is not just the wavelength; how many wiggles of that wavelength comprise a single photon? How much volume of space do those wiggles occupy? Where can it be said the boundaries of a given photon lie, and no further? Discussions of such involve terms as 'coherence length' and the probability of finding a given photon at a given place and time and not somewhere else, and so forth. Until it is detected a photon could be anywhere in the universe, only with varying probabilities, but literally anywhere. Welcome to the bizarre world of Quantum Mechanics.

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#16
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Re: Catch a Star Exploding in Action in 2022

01/17/2017 10:30 AM

Extreme wishes of good luck to attempt and detect a photon of 108 m (or any other long, long wavelength), noise gets really, really bad at those frequencies.

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#17
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Re: Catch a Star Exploding in Action in 2022

01/17/2017 10:56 AM

As photon energy is inversely proportional to wavelength, they're also very weak and so even if the noise weren't there you'd have a helluva time detecting them - and you may have to wait a long time. Photons of wavelength 108 metres (freq about 3 Hz) aren't especially hard to detect, actually, and you can choose which component to detect - whether its electric field or magnetic component, or both. Easily within the range of many ELF receivers (one I built recently, for example, starts rolling-off at about 9.3 Hz [λ ~ 32,000 km]).

But you're quite right, noise can make things a bit difficult down in the EM basement. Not only 1/f noise, but thermal noise as well. Loop antennas, for example, benefit greatly from low resistance, to help keep thermal noise down. As I don't have the money (nor inclination) to use cryogenics, the next best thing is to throw a boatload of copper at it. My loop uses about 15 kg' worth. I could use less and significantly increase the loop's area, but this is a portable loop (about 2 m in diameter) for field work (pun intended ).

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#18
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Re: Catch a Star Exploding in Action in 2022

01/17/2017 11:16 AM

What about magnetic monopole antenna? Is that any use at low wavelength?

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#19
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Re: Catch a Star Exploding in Action in 2022

01/17/2017 11:26 AM

They work right down to DC - except that the Universe isn't old enough yet to produce a frequency that low and, as far as anyone knows, magnetic monopoles neither.

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#20
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Re: Catch a Star Exploding in Action in 2022

01/17/2017 12:18 PM

Maybe I mis-stated. Friend of mine has some sort of radio antenna that is pretty directional, and is magnetic field selective rather than electric field selective. Maybe that is what I meant to say. I am not a ham radio operator, but I am sure his antenna cannot pick up anything near that low.

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#21
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Re: Catch a Star Exploding in Action in 2022

01/17/2017 1:08 PM

It's a loop aerial no doubt (which are directional), but most loops don't go that low due to their combination of wire resistance and loop inductance. At ham-radio frequencies they are typically also part of a tuned circuit - I'd bet that somewhere in your friend's design there is a (possibly-variable) capacitor across its terminals for tuning the antenna.

ELF (extremely low frequency) loops for faint-signal reception put pretty stringent demands on the design; ones that are largely absent at ham-radio frequencies (certain signals I'm interested in, for example, peak at around 1 pico-Tesla), but the basic idea is the same except that mine aren't tuned - the output is amplified and sent straight to a spectrum analyser. It is also receive-only*. The loop is so sensitive to magnetic fields that even slight motion/vibration from the wind can saturate the output amplifier. The wind induces spurious currents to flow due to the loop's motion in the Earth's magnetic field, and so the loop has to be protected from that. Were this a permanent installation I'd bury the loop. Lots of fun stuff your friend doesn't have to deal with.

-----

* Practical transmitting antennas at these frequencies are extremely inefficient because of the enormous wavelengths and so would take tens of megawatts of input power just to radiate one or two watts. At 7 Hz for example an efficient, quarter-wavelength transmitting antenna would be about 6000 miles high.

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#22
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Re: Catch a Star Exploding in Action in 2022

01/17/2017 1:12 PM

Yeah, that whole picture is a little bit insane.

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#23
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Re: Catch a Star Exploding in Action in 2022

01/17/2017 1:25 PM

Throw in 50 & 60 Hz mains noise (and their harmonics, which can exceed 5 kHz), atmospheric noise (especially in local summer) and yeah, it's a difficult EM environment in which to work. The mains peaks are so strong that a colleague in Finland can not only detect the 60 Hz signal from North America's power grids (Finland's mains are 50 Hz) but can tell when various N.A. utilities buy and sell power from each other. Fun stuff! About the only places you can get away from it are in the middle of the oceans and in Antarctica well away from research stations and their generators. Earth is a noisy place!

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#3

Re: Catch a Star Exploding in Action in 2022

01/13/2017 10:40 AM

Hopefully the James Webb, Hubble and Chandra telescopes will be all operational and looking when this happens.

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#4

Re: Catch a Star Exploding in Action in 2022

01/13/2017 11:31 AM

Bada Boom...

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#12
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Re: Catch a Star Exploding in Action in 2022

01/13/2017 9:38 PM

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#14
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Re: Catch a Star Exploding in Action in 2022

01/16/2017 12:20 PM

One of the first times seeing Milla in action!

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