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Cell Phone IDs and CCTV

04/27/2017 9:57 AM

Hey all

fruitless searches on my part, so the question is.... has anyone heard or know of a CCTV camera (system) that while monitoring people moving in a secure area that can also collect the IMEI or ESN off the cell phone that a person might be using or carrying?

I have found several sites and products that equipment that can collect such cell phone info in a handheld unit, please note that these units do not listen in on calls or intercept data/texts etc.

I am looking for a specific unit, CCTV plus cell phone ID all rolled into one.

If you do, I would appreciate any info you can pass on

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#1

Re: cell phone ID's and CCTV

04/27/2017 10:40 AM

Contact the mfrs of the handheld devices. If the product doesn't already exist this may be something they'd be interested in developing. I presume you're interested in IDing the people seen with the camera, or at least IDing their phones which is almost the same thing.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: cell phone ID's and CCTV

04/27/2017 11:13 AM

Yes thought of contacting the manufacturers of the handheld devices.... and yes for security I have a need to ID the phone of people captured on CCTV.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: cell phone ID's and CCTV

04/27/2017 11:19 AM

I would definitely give them a call. If they don't mfr such a device themselves they might at least know of someone who does. It's a highly specialised item and likely not one someone here would have knowledge of. Someone might, and it's certainly worth asking, but I think the chances are slim. I think your best bet is to contact surveillance-gear mfrs and ask them directly.

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#4

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

04/27/2017 1:49 PM

Look at the offerings from ADI / I used to be a dealer for their products and if there is a high end offering worth looking at? ..these guys will have the 411.

You might not be able to buy from them directly, but as a resource they are still worth a look. A call to them might be a good idea as they are well schooled in surveillance etc.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

04/27/2017 2:29 PM

See also if they offer CAOS camera, to get even better image detail between highlights and shadows, some claim they could possibly achieve 180 db contrast resolution. Uses spatial, and time/frequency domain information to allow camera to see details against bright light for example.

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#6

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

04/27/2017 4:25 PM

What is the advantage of 'rolled into one'?

Are you thinking the display will be able to the camera image with the IMEI or ESN? That would require at least a couple antennas reasonably spaced or some clever use of substantial shielding....neither one is accurately described as 'rolled into one'.

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#9
In reply to #6

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

04/28/2017 1:33 AM

Not sure.. my client has "heard" about such a device. I'm just following up to see if there is.

My company was approached by a US manufacturer claiming that he has such a device.. as yet, not further info forthcoming from him. Might be BS, but you never know

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#7

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

04/27/2017 6:24 PM

O this is a job for a wanna-be hacker. Snowden knows these all.

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#10
In reply to #7

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

04/28/2017 1:52 AM

No, GM.

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#8

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

04/28/2017 1:31 AM

Et All

Gentlemen.... while all these comments are nice, they don't answer my question, I'm not asking about CCTV resolution, etc... all I want to know does anyone know of such a piece of equipment, if not fine, if yes please let me know. Either answer is acceptable!

As for hacking.. why does every discussion end up perverted off the main topic?

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#11

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

04/28/2017 6:27 AM

I hate to say it, but this is suspiciously close to an invasion of privacy. Collecting the IMEI is only possible through the interception of data, for which you will never get legal authority.

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

04/28/2017 7:16 AM

Damn it.. can't you just answer the question or not?

I would not ask you not to try and take the moral high ground, as for invasion of privacy this type of tracking is practices by every law enforcement agency in the world in one way or another.

So either you know or you don't know? So what's your answer?

As for your statement
"Collecting the IMEI is only possible through the interception of data, for which you will never get legal authority."

1. Rubbish, using the correct equipment which is out there already being used by many security services, the collection of the IEMI does not mean you intercept the data or voice traffic on the phone. That's phone tapping which without the correct court order is illegal.

2. If my client didn't have the right authority they would not have asked me.

Just read the question. is there a item of equipment that can do BOTH jobs, collect the IEMI AND video the person using the phone? do you know? Yes or No?

not difficult!

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#13
In reply to #12

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

04/28/2017 9:11 AM

Since I don't work for the CIA, DIA, NSA, ICE, or any other government alphabet soup, no I don't know, but I see this as a no-brainer that it exists, and if you are in some country like Libya, where civil liberties are as cheap as rice, I suppose invading that subject's personal cellphone for ID while videoing the subject would only be the tip of the iceberg.

I suspect it might be possible once, the code is picked up, to hack into the device and listen in with crystal clarity, even watch the expression on the face of the listener.

Heck why not hack the cell phone, and turn on the camera, so you can video them through the cell phone, although the inside of someone's ear might not be the most worthwhile identifiable information.

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

04/28/2017 9:42 AM

It's for a secure area ostensibly where cell phones are not allowed. If you're in that area legally, you already gave up a good bit of your privacy to begin with and told them it was OK to do so. Google 'SF-86' to see what I am talking about.

My only concern is that unless this area is a screen room or shielded enclosure, you may very well detect cell phones outside of the secure area and attribute those signals to someone seen in the CCTV.

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#17
In reply to #14

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

04/28/2017 10:59 AM

Exactly. Hence the need for multiple antennae for triangulation or ,as you note, substantial shielding.

I don't know of any product like that, but it is certainly do-able.

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#20
In reply to #12

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

04/28/2017 4:20 PM

Bearing in mind that this is not the dark web, we here have to be very careful to stay on the right side of the law when offering advice. As a simple matter of fact cellphone communications are private data streams. Whether you wish to harvest the whole of those data streams or only parts of them does not matter - you would still be intercepting a private data stream. You suggest your client has authorised you to do this. If so, then either he is happy to break the law or he is already part of the law-enforcing establishment. I would expect that establishment to have its own channels for purchasing security equipment, not normally available to the general public.

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#21
In reply to #20

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

04/28/2017 4:25 PM

On the flip-side, his avatar says he's in Oman and so this may involve military security of some sort.

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#22
In reply to #21

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

04/28/2017 4:48 PM

Oh man, I hope I have not been offering advice to a counter-military operative in a foreign country. Please for Dog's sake, don't send me any money, or the Democrats will roast me on a spit.

If you are with the British Foreign Ministry Office in Oman, you probably had better follow British law within the compound, and Omani law outside the compound, unless your trade craft is good enough to prevent being caught at it!

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#23
In reply to #22

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

04/28/2017 5:21 PM

too late.

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#24
In reply to #22

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

04/28/2017 6:10 PM

you're funny!

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#25
In reply to #20

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

04/29/2017 12:31 AM

He didn't mention intercepting data streams, unless I missed it. He is talking about identifying specific devices and coordinating that with video.

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#26
In reply to #25

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

04/29/2017 12:37 AM

You didn't miss it.... just phone ID together with video.

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#27
In reply to #25

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

04/29/2017 4:55 AM

Excuse me, but try joining the real world. Having spotted an individual on CCTV you have the choice of

1. "Hand me over your phone, so that I can record the IMEI"

2. Intercepting the data stream, to covertly record the IMEI.

3. Any other bright ideas?

Of course he didn't actually mention intercepting data streams, because in most jurisdictions it's illegal.

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#28
In reply to #27

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

04/29/2017 6:27 AM

FYI.. you do not need to intercept the data to get the IEMI, its transmitted separately!

AGAIN for those heard of reading.. no data will be intercepted! ye Gods

Why the F£$%^ do I bother!

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#29
In reply to #28

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

04/29/2017 10:12 AM

Weasel words. The communication between cell phone and base station starts by transmitting the identity, which is still part of a private data transmission, between the same participants as the subsequent voice call or data transmission. There is no different channel.

I can speak only for the UK, but the general public does not have an authorisation to receive all transmissions throughout the radio frequency spectrum. Put the other way, it is an offence to receive radio transmissions unless you have a licence for that particular frequency or it is exempt. Owning a mobile phone does not give you permission to scan the band for other people's activities.

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#31
In reply to #29

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

04/29/2017 10:30 AM

Please tell me your obstinance is a new thing. I hate to consider how many people could have been injured by that type of attitude in an anesthetist.

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#37
In reply to #29

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

05/01/2017 9:18 AM

Do you mean to say one cannot listen to the radio in Grate Britain?
To my understanding, once radio waves, microwaves, or any other waves are emitted, transmitted, or beamed, they are free space transmissions, and clearly cost nothing and are not illegal to intercept (it is just that not everyone has the deciphering tools to hand to make sense of any coded intelligent therein).

Yes, Gilroy, they are listening to your steamy conversations between you and your mistress. BTW, you need to keep that thingy in your pants while in the backyard.

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#36
In reply to #28

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

05/01/2017 9:15 AM

Red pill, or Blue pill? Your choice.

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#49
In reply to #28

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

05/03/2017 2:05 AM

Why indeed.

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#30
In reply to #27

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

04/29/2017 10:20 AM

Request denied. You are not excused. The fault appears deliberate on your part, so the request to be excused is judged disingenuous.

This isn't an isolated case, this is a strong pattern for you. Please take necessary action to address the acute hyperegoism impeding your ability to perceive clearly and reason adequately. Fundamental calibration is immediately required.

You did say you are retired, right? No one's life is in your hands these days...other than on the roadways perhaps, right? I mean, this level of denial of hard evidence and insistence on never being wrong could be really dangerous.

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#32
In reply to #30

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

04/29/2017 5:11 PM

You are trolling again. Unless you happen to know something about mobile phone transmission protocols or about UK telecommunications law you may excuse yourself from the discussion.

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#33
In reply to #32

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

04/30/2017 9:44 AM

UK telecommunications law? Please, at least, try to pretend that not everything is about you, local to you, in your purview, of your understanding. Those things are obvious to the rest of us. Even though you apparently don't share our perception of this, if you don't at least feign this understanding, then you will only continue to make a complete equus asinus of yourself.

.

Tend more to your own need to be excused, forgiven, tolerated, or ignored; before embarking on dictating to the rest of us who should and should not comment. You have more than enough on your plate already.

.

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#34
In reply to #33

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

04/30/2017 10:55 AM

Still trolling? Have you any facts to add to the debate? Does the law in your part of the world permit intercepting other peoples' communications?

Yes, no and no. Prove you have something useful to say or get lost.

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#35
In reply to #34

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

04/30/2017 1:37 PM

'Get lost' ?

No, thank you. I don't enjoy your company enough to join you.

You are once again conflating your own delusions for the actual topic being discussed. There is no surreptitious interception of "peoples' (sic) communications".

MEID is an equipment identifier not a communication of an individual (there is a possibility that someone might include an MEID in a communication, but that is not what is being discussed here.

SuggestIng that recording an MEID is somehow intercepting communications is like saying copying down a PO box number is like reading people's mail....or that writing down a licence plate number is equivalent to eaves dropping on a conversation within the car.

.

Out here in the factual world, I am discussing the relevant issues, not trolling. You on the other hand are mixing your own fantasy into the fray. I know you think you are right and that I am trolling, but you are quite deluded on at least those points among others....which is becoming a pattern.

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#40
In reply to #34

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

05/01/2017 9:28 AM

Will you bloody well stop trying to run people off? Who made you the hall monitor.

Your authority stops at your keyboard. I will take up for TNC's right to make an arse of himself on here if he wishes, even yours, although it makes me regurgitate internally just a bit.

He used a Latin term you should be familiar with: I will use another one you are most definitely familiar with: You are the Southmost part of a Northbound horse. And I am speaking of one with the tail cropped.

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#43
In reply to #40

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

05/02/2017 5:31 AM

Thank you, James. If you review the performance so far, I am but trying to give you the facts.

The interception of wireless communications in the UK is governed by the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000. The US has a similar code, as does the EU. That is fact. The proposition that all parts of the civilised world have similar codes is a reasonable extrapolation. Now the OP does not explicitly state that interception is legal wherever it is. Instead the transmission of the identifiers is somehow regarded as public property. This is most certainly not the case in the UK, and it would be very interesting if the lawyer's opinion were different under the other legislations. That is where the debate ranges.

Now I will happily yield the ground to someone who can produce a solid argument to the contrary, and we would thereby all be better informed. However, we have not been given that alternative information. Instead, it is the practice of the trolls and bullies not to present an argument based on fact, preferring instead to present the argument on the basis of personal abuse. If said troll happens to have some solid information, I for one would be delighted to receive it.

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#44
In reply to #43

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

05/02/2017 9:38 AM

Nevertheless the legality, we know the British Government gathers plenty of intelligence on its citizens in terms of cellular phone data, as does the American NSA, CIA, and in certain cases the FBI. Someone has to produce the technology these agencies need, and that someone must by definition be an engineer. Do you not get that?

There has to be a balance between protection by lawful authorities of the general citizenry against unreasonable search and seizure, responsible taxation that funds government operation within limits, against unlawful taxation, and other examples.

I am not advocating for general freedom for anyone to randomly spy on anyone around them, but businesses already have apps to collect meta data from phones or other electronic devices that communicate and engage in targeted marketing.

It would be nice if the police had the capability to do a little targeted marketing at the worst criminals among us, thereby removing them from contributing to personnel pollution by allowing the police to clean up our streets.

I am tired of all the (1) anarchists, (2) rioting street thugs, (3) other useless vermin taking advantage of stealing from our government at every chance, and also committing crimes against persons and getting away with it. Either we will have an orderly society, we will return to the Law of the West (guns on hips), or maybe we will have both, if that is what it takes to make people start behaving like human beings and less like animals.

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#45
In reply to #44

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

05/02/2017 2:36 PM

To your point, there was a company called Harris that produced a product called Stingray that was obtained and used successfully to monitor Gangs in Los Angeles that lead to many convictions. When the courts required disclosure from the Police Dept they could not comply due to the NDA executed with Harris. The Stingray had all the technical applications to obtain data from U.S. citizens.

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#46
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Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

05/02/2017 3:30 PM

...and I hope from non-US citizens as well. I have always said, don't do the crime, if you can't do the time!

Usually, those with nothing to hide, do not need to hide, and have nothing to fear from any government surveillance that might take place.

The problem is when meta data, and other data is acquired by a government agency, and then agents working there release the information (illegally) to political operatives or new reporters.

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#47
In reply to #45

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

05/02/2017 7:56 PM

Stingray and similar as well as more modern equipment is in use all over the US at local police departments. There are still nondisclosure that quell disclosure.

Those ND agreements set a bad precedent. They train officers to lie to the courts, to omit and distort the facts in order to cover up actual procedure.

That all may look acceptable to some who believe that local police departments are above reproach and never behave egregiously. While most police are upstanding citizens, the exceptions are not so rare.

Without an expectation of privacy, there is no right to privacy. Do not give up your right to privacy based on the naive assumption that because you don't think anything you are doing is illegal or bad, that snooping (especially that which is intentionally hidden from judicial review) might not end up putting you in harms way.

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#39
In reply to #32

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

05/01/2017 9:24 AM

The only trolling is where you interject and insert British requirement into what ostensibly was previously non-British, unless it was in the British Foreign Ministry in Oman.

However, if working in the BFM Oman, I would want to have trade craft tools that facilitate the gathering of actionable intelligent at my fingertips. I am just odd like that though.

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#38
In reply to #30

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

05/01/2017 9:22 AM

Some instruments do not even respond to bench calibration, and the only additional calibration is the gravity test to see if the materials are compliant with the laws of gravity.

99.99% of all items tested thus far are compliant. But what bothers me is the 0.01%. What happened in those cases? Beamed up?

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#41
In reply to #38

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

05/01/2017 3:39 PM

I don't know what happened to the previous 0.01%, but should any future tests show noncompliance with gravity, I volunteer to be curator of said failure.

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#42
In reply to #41

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

05/01/2017 4:03 PM

ROFLMAO! No problem. I will forward all the defective ones to you for further testing. Now where did I put that orbital lasso?

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#15

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

04/28/2017 10:06 AM

I dont have a CCTV with my device but do produce a very sophisticated mini GSM that will gather IMEI off every cellular device within a 1-2 mile diameter.

David Baca

MSMART Consulting, LLC

david@msmartcorp.com.

+1-949-400-0617

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

04/28/2017 10:27 AM

What I hear you saying is that you like to spy on people within that diameter. Now all you have to go is turn on their cell phone selfie cam.

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#18
In reply to #16

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

04/28/2017 11:24 AM

Don't be so narrow minded. The product is used by NATO, Philippines Government and a similar product used by the Los Angeles Sharif dept, among other U.S. government agencies. Also looked at for usage by SAR international and Coast Guard. I hope to introduce to Homeland Security. We did have the manufacturer convert the system to U.S. application and an auctioned band was approved by the FCC. Primarily for in-house text marketing at ticketed events.

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

04/28/2017 11:31 AM

Oh, certainly no argument if we are searching (BOLO) for mal hombre #17. I like the targeted texting at shows or other events that are by choice, entry is implicit consent.

There are clearly situations where having this tech is a real life safer.

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#48

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

05/02/2017 10:46 PM

Gentlemen..

what is disturbing here is you have taken my simple question distorted it to suit your high non-existent morals on privacy to argue a mute point as none of your are really in the 'know'.

you all assume if you shout loud that others will actually understand you and accept your point.

why or how does my question end up being a shouting match between what is obviously so called engineers debating a stupid point that has no relevance to my question.

Why do you do it guys.. does it make you feel clever, important, or for the self gratification of being able to BS someone else from miles away?

you are not engineers.. you are politicians, eco warriors, civil rights activists!
All I wanted was an answer.. you have degraded the question into a self serving round of "he said" she said".... So wrong, so very wrong.
This is not engineering, is this utter crap, spouting from folk that don't know, so they just assume or fabricate.

Get a grip on life, learn to read and understand the written word, and answer the bloody question as its asked.

I don't give a toss about it being political correct, I want an answer! Is that to much to expect?

You disappoint me! How do I take this post down?

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#50
In reply to #48

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

05/03/2017 5:18 AM

I beg your pardon Brich, My posts are related with equipment I know which performs the closest to your request. They capture the IMEI and nothing else. The product can send push text and there's a 1000 line one on one calling capability within the operating area. Cost for U.S. specified product with FCC approved Spectrum is $220,000. 00 USD. Manufactured in Switzerland.

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#51
In reply to #50

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

05/03/2017 5:35 AM

I know what you stated.. I am not including you in the way that my questions was bastardized into a slagging match.

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#52
In reply to #51

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

05/03/2017 5:49 AM

I apologize for my part in the slogging.

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#53
In reply to #51

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

05/03/2017 9:06 AM

Are you pointing that boney finger at me? I thought I was attempting to be helpful, sorry if it seems I was merely an interloper. It is an interesting thread. Do keep going.

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#54
In reply to #50

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

05/06/2017 7:27 AM

I think you can answer the question for us. Is your product freely available to the general public to use, or are there licensing requirements?

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#55
In reply to #54

Re: Cell Phone ID's and CCTV

05/06/2017 9:22 AM

These units are not for general public use. They are available without licence requirement of usage in our marketing version of "DMAS". (Direct Market Advertising System). Registration with the local police is not required but a good idea. The areas of use for this model are private venue events in a relatively secure and contained area. In otherwords any ticketed event with the area capacity to contain the signaling of DMAS. Stadiums, Remote Concert areas, Off shore racing, surfing, Cruise Ships etc. DMAS signaling is adjustable from 500 ft diameter up to 2 miles. The Search and Rescue version and the military version is not permissible in the US. But we market Globally. The military version runs approx. 1.2 million USD.

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