Previous in Forum: IR LASER range finder   Next in Forum: Nano-sized Piezo electric crystal
Close
Close
Close
11 comments
Commentator

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Circe,9 Majadahonda 28220. SPAIN
Posts: 94
Good Answers: 2

Hybrid wehicles

09/01/2007 4:24 PM

Hybrid vehicle technology has become very important and specific.

Why not starting a CR4 enytry for hybrid tecnology?

Many thanks,

Arturo

__________________
QUIMERA
Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Commentator

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: india
Posts: 63
#1

Re: Hybrid wehicles

09/02/2007 12:02 AM

does it means maltipal power supply for driving wehicle

like battery , solar, fual, hydrogen ect

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Knoxville Tenn, Lake Helen, FL
Posts: 192
#2
In reply to #1

Re: Hybrid wehicles

09/02/2007 2:36 AM

The plug in Hybrid is best. The prius is the one that is most easily converted. Youl can drive it 100 miles on electric.. that means you NEVER have to fill up with gas unless you drive more than 100 miles a day!!

__________________
Peace begets Synergy which begets Progress!
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 88
#3
In reply to #2

Re: Hybrid wehicles

09/02/2007 6:12 PM

congratulations,,,,,,You are right.

Because hot gases coming from burning fuels is the real cause of overheating atmosphere and climate changes all over the world.

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Knoxville Tenn, Lake Helen, FL
Posts: 192
#4
In reply to #3

Re: Hybrid wehicles

09/02/2007 9:59 PM

Yes the prius can converted to plug in type of hybrid. The problem is that it voids the manufacturer warranty. heh heh heh .. so you have to be a risk taker. But many have done it so far and no real problems .. they are loving not using any gas at all except on long trips. I think the kit to convert it is in the 2 thousand $ range.

Here is some useful information about the batteries that a good hybrid or electric car should have (Nickel Metal Hydride , my opinion ).


RE: EV motorbike

Re: Need info to build a BIG Electric Motorbike 09/02/2007 2:47 PM

I don't see any reason an electric motor bike should have to be a 3 wheeler? I'm sure if you work at it you can use the wheel motors mentioned above to both generate torque and also generate power when braking back into the batteries. I think the regenerative braking systems drop out when the speed gets too low (like 10-15mph maybe). IN other words they regenerate electricity back into batteries from say 70mph down to 15 for example and they the regular brakes would take over.

The needed batteries can be stored where the engine used to be, as mentioned. etc. You'll lose the muffler, engine, gas tank, etc making enough room for perhaps li-ion batteries although I would try for Ni-MH . (the oil companies bought control of the patent to the Ni-mh and promptly make the prices too high for even Honda to afford ,.. Honda had to use hundreds of D cell flaslhlight size batteries to compose their first years production battery pack using the ni-mh. And why did Honda and toyota choose ni-mh..? Its because they are electrically unbreakable. You can even reverse charge them (i have heard) and they wont' go bad.. I tried the one in my cordess phone for example and after the phone was 'dead" actually connected + and - together with a resistor (be careful doing this it could overheat the resistor) and drained it further down to absolutely zero volts (0.0 volts. ) and left it that way overnight. Next day back in the phone and back on the charging cradle. It had to be charged twice but now works as good a new! long talk time. Lead acids would choke if you did that to them.. I'd like to hear how LI-ion works for that scenario. Toyota likewise has to use smaller Ni-mh's and string them together like 40 of them in a gang pack. Instead of what should have happened: is they buy them from cobasys for reasonable price in 12 or 24 volt and big 85 amphours and only use about 10 of them.

The evidence about Ni-MH:

1. Big Oil and Detroit are suppressing affordable use of Ni-Mh

2. Foreigners are making them as fast as they can

3. Toyota and Honda are using them however they have to.

4. A Ford VP was overheard saying : "Those Nickel MetalHydrides, you can't break the damn things.. "

5. Detroit and all the autoparts industry would lose big time if the Electrics catch on in USA as they are in Europe

6. Some towns in England near london are "rumored" to have almost completely switched over to electric cars (the G-wiz) because its so cheap to run and they get free parking in london.

7. The EV1 had the Ni-MH battery and got rave reviews from the users. GM Mechanics praised it because they never had to fix anything. The documentary "Who killed the Electric Car" shows how GM recalled all the EV1's (using threats of lawsuits and arrests for noncompliance)and instead of selling them or keeping them for research, they destroyed them in metal chipping machines and crushers. (the news team followed them in helicopters from Calif to the crushing machines in arizona). The one they let go to a museum was gutted (disabled ). This occured right before the big gas increases starting in 1999 (or thereabouts). Who destroys evidence?

8. The Ni_Mh patent is rumored to run out in 2010. Only 2 years from now we should see the Ni_MH come onto the market for a reasonable price (only 10 years late).

Verdict... Ni-Mh is battery of choice.

Yes Li-Ion has higher energy density and is lighter too but they also are more easily exploding (could ruin your ezrider bike tour).

BE CAREFUL with NI-MH: they have to be charged with an algorythimic method (IE 28 amps for 3 hours then 10 amps for 5 hours etc) Also DO NOT charge them in series .. use separate regulator for each battery. The Ni-MH has a peculiar chemistry that says basically that if you charge them to gether in series, one reaches full voltage first and then begins to suck all the power , overheating and catching fire or melting down. The separate circuit for each eliminates the problem. You could use a higher amperage tranformer to give you say 12volts dc and then just use 10 separate regulators for the 10 separate 12 volte batteries. Each of the 10 regulator circuits would start out at 28 amps for example and then cut it down to 10 amps after 3 hours.

Good luck ! Don't give up your dream! .. if you want to use your bike as a testbed for my patent www.triplebatterylife.com I could do that .. we'd install my patent for a week.. run it for a few trials and document how much further it wil go at same speeds on same batteries with the patent installed etc. If you did cooperate with this I'd be willing to give you a percentage of future profits.

Also I need an electric car for same purpose. Same deal!

__________________
Peace begets Synergy which begets Progress!
Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Near Frankfurt am Main, Germany. 50.390866N, 8.884827E
Posts: 17996
Good Answers: 200
#5
In reply to #3

Re: Hybrid wehicles

09/03/2007 3:02 AM

....did you forget the gases produced at the electrical generator that charged up the batteries?

__________________
"What others say about you reveals more about them, than it does you." Anon.
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Knoxville Tenn, Lake Helen, FL
Posts: 192
#6
In reply to #5

Re: Hybrid wehicles

09/03/2007 6:26 AM

But the gases produced at the electric plant are less because of scrubbers and other methods of reducing emissions which are not required on gas cars. I heard they are 40% less? Also the emissions are removed from dense areas to less dense areas where power plants can be located.

Most pleasing is that the Nuc Reactors can do this electricity production with ease and without pollution of the air (waste can be buried so deep you'd never find it or know it was there (with proper triple sealed containers and isolated locations perhaps miles deep).

__________________
Peace begets Synergy which begets Progress!
Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - New Member Safety - ESD - New Member Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Near Frankfurt am Main, Germany. 50.390866N, 8.884827E
Posts: 17996
Good Answers: 200
#7
In reply to #6

Re: Hybrid vehicles

09/03/2007 6:41 AM

You Will note that I was most careful in what I said, which was " ....did you forget the gases produced......".

Some people who read CR4 may take it that NO gases are produced! Which of course is completely false unless, as you mentioned, ONLY nuclear power was used. (by the way, contrary to poplar opinion I am for Nuclear Power, especially when eventually Fusion is a usable method!)

It may only seem to some people to be hair splitting, but full accuracy is extremely important at all times....as I am sure you will agree.

__________________
"What others say about you reveals more about them, than it does you." Anon.
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Circe,9 Majadahonda 28220. SPAIN
Posts: 94
Good Answers: 2
#8
In reply to #6

Re: Hybrid wehicles

09/03/2007 11:45 AM

I am in favor of atomic electric power generation, to charge the batteries of electric or hybrid vehicles.

But I am not in favor of burying the atomic waste miles deep in the ground or in the see.

In my opinion it is better to keep them, in proper triple sealed containers, at isolated places, in order that we are able to check how they evolve and to treat them in case that in the future scientists or somebody else discover how to dispose of them in a better way than now.

Best regards,

Arturo

__________________
QUIMERA
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: East Texas
Posts: 1384
Good Answers: 31
#9
In reply to #2

Re: Hybrid Vehicles

09/04/2007 11:50 PM

Before you get to giddy about plug in hybrids, remember the base efficiency starts at the wall plug - about 15 to 17 percent, and goes down from there. Thats whats left after electrical power production and distribution.

__________________
"The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark." -- Michelangelo
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Knoxville Tenn, Lake Helen, FL
Posts: 192
#11
In reply to #9

Re: Hybrid Vehicles

09/05/2007 12:17 AM

"...the base efficiency starts at the wall plug - about 15 to 17 percent, and goes down from there. "

Yes but even at that its still one cent per mile equivalent. Thats cheap.

__________________
Peace begets Synergy which begets Progress!
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: East Texas
Posts: 1384
Good Answers: 31
#10

Re: Hybrid Vehicles

09/04/2007 11:57 PM

The Three Fundamental Efficiencies of Hybrid Technology - By Mark J. Carter (Gavilan) - March 12th 2006

In transportation based hybrid power production ­ How the power is produced takes a back seat to how the power is processed. The three fundamental efficiencies of refined wheeled vehicle hybrid power processes are "Prime Mover Power Averaging", "Regenerative Braking," and "Peaking Power."

Power Averaging:

"Power Averaging", also referred to as "load averaging or load leveling", allows maximum power output of the prime mover to be reduced to that slightly greater than that needed to cruise on level terrain at maximum sustained velocity. This reduces prime mover (engine) mass and volume; offsetting the mass and volume of the required temporary storage device.

Peak process demand in an automobile or other wheeled vehicle occurs during acceleration and grading (climbing hills). Existing hybrid systems translate this demand real time to the prime mover. In the next generation of hybrid automobiles the prime mover will operate at a near constant output from start up to shut down. The prime mover will feed near constant power into a temporary storage device (battery, capacitor, flywheel, or hydraulic accumulator) and the variable real time demand power will be pulled off that storage device. This will allow for a very significant reduction in maximum power requirements of the prime mover, optimize prime mover power production, and allow the introduction of prime movers not well suited to rapidly variable demand.

With Power Averaging as a primary efficiency of hybrid technology, the fueling algorithm of the next generation of hybrid automobiles will be a bit more complex than a simple iterative program. The coming generations of automotive control computers will "remember" power use based on both "routes" and "habits", calculate average demand, and de-couple operator control from prime mover demand with the ability to handle unanticipated variability of daily commuting. How that will be accomplished is beautiful in its simplicity.

The reciprocating engine dominates automotive technology because of its ability to respond rapidly through a broad power range. Power Averaging will allow the adaptation of prime movers that, although may not respond rapidly to power variation, operate at very high efficiently when operated at a near constant output. Given modern materials, the economics of scaled production, and the primary fundamental hybrid efficiency of Power Averaging, the choice of prime mover technology will be expanded to include Turbine and Sterling technology as well as existing Clean Diesel Combustion,conventional gasoline powered reciprocating engines, fuel cells, or any other primary power technology.

Regenerative Braking:

Regenerative Braking can be described as the recovery of kinetic energy (energy of the vehicle mass moving) to stored energy through numerous regenerative braking methods. Prior to regenerative capable hybrids, highway driving was more fuel-efficient than city driving even though aerodynamic losses of high speed highway driving far exceeded that of low speed driving in stop and go traffic.

In stop and go driving the energy conversion process can be described as the conversion of chemical potential energy of the fuel source by the prime mover, to kinetic energy of moving vehicle mass, to friction braking heat loss. The energy loss is directly proportional to the number of stop and go cycles. The multiple cycles of this conversion loss in stop and go driving can greatly exceed that of aerodynamic drag in constant state highway driving. Existing hybrid systems now regenerate significant amounts of energy lost during braking and this fundamental efficiency is expected to radically improve as the power and energy density of the temporary storage devices continue to improve.

Peaking Power:

"Peaking Power," when described as a fundamental efficiency of hybrid technology, refers to short term/ high power supply of energy to the power train from a temporary storage device during the peak demand periods of acceleration and grading (climbing hills.) This allows the drive train to be supplied power at rates much higher than the maximum power rating of the prime mover for short periods. The prime mover must still be capable of producing a sustained power slightly greater than the power required to cruise at maximum sustained velocity on level grade, but the cruising (or average) demand is much less than peak demand.

The coming generations of hybrid vehicles will have the operator controlled capability to rapidly accelerate to velocities significantly greater than maximum sustained velocity. This will be accomplished by summing the energy available in storage with prime mover output. As the storage device discharges, the sustained operating velocity will fall back to where prime mover power is balanced against drag and grade. The drive train will be the limiting factor in accelerative performance but the accelerative performance of yesterdays "muscle cars" may pale in comparison to the accelerative performance of a hybrid with a "muscled" drive train.

I am sure there will be more variations in storage and conversion methods but "Prime Mover Power Averaging", "Regenerative Braking," and "Peaking Power" will remain fundamental efficiencies in hybrid technologies whether it be wheeled vehicles, small unit electrical power production, or the myriad of other applications.

In closing I want to say the potential for significant enhancement of transportation efficiency still exists in both automotive and rail applications. Energy saving returns can come a lot quicker and cheaper than reinventing the technology. We have begun by sequencing traffic lights to traffic patterns and may soon expand that concept out to a 12,000-ton train that may never have to stop for a meet.

__________________
"The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark." -- Michelangelo
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 11 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

Andy Germany (2); ARTURO (1); CHEMA (1); Gavilan (2); jarunmagnet (1); TRIPLEBATTERYLIFE (4)

Previous in Forum: IR LASER range finder   Next in Forum: Nano-sized Piezo electric crystal

Advertisement