Towing An Iceberg?

Towing to prevent collisions is pretty common. Not easy though!

Towing to market, maybe impossible..

http://www.amusingplanet.com/2014/05/towing-icebergs-away-from-oil-platforms.html

<...If it was economically possible,I am sure it would have been done by now...>

Quite. After all, creatures in higher latitudes have been doing it free for millenia:

That there is a global shortage of water is a myth. What is important is having it in the right place. So the problem is location-specific.

The solutions are manifold, and unique to each location. For example:

Larnaca/Cyprus:

Malvern/UK:

Offshore:

So it is important to define the size and shape of the problem before focussing on one particular solution.

I totally agree.

Before a desalination plant was put in at Larnica they had days where water pressure was low, but I never knew it to stop, since installing the plant there has never been a water shortage, I don't know what the price per cubic meter is but a few years ago when I asked it was cheaper than in GB, Makes you wonder why SA hasn't built there own desalination plant.

Bazzer

I am not expert on this, but would guess that the power supply system and other necessary support infrastructure is probably as unreliable as the water supply system.

Availability of the necessary spares and service parts would be a challenge. The other concern is probably that there is no water to actually process.

Add to that the problem of disposal of the bypass water, or do they just poison the river downstream with salt loaded soup?

I REALLY feel for them.

The pollution from desalination is a serious problem.

In addition to the super-salty water,there are the chemicals used to clean and back flush the filter media.

Here is a link to a possible solution to some of the problems,that will become increasingly important.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/desalination-breakthrough-saving-the-sea-from-salt/https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/desalination-breakthrough-saving-the-sea-from-salt/

Most of the infrastructure was installed by the British so no the power supplies are OK & they are quite advanced so they built a Desalination plant next to the sea.

Bazzer

Himalayas/Nepal:

As for mining the icebergs for water, it is also being done. However best described as an "opportunistic" harvest mainly of bergs that are grounded, and the product more or less a novelty water.

http://www.bergwater.ca/harvesting.aspx

Rather than use gantry crane to load a ship full of ice

I imagine hot wires or water jets to cut a huge section into a shape that can be towed with less resistance.

then slip it into a big BIG bag when it get close to the final destination and suck the saltwater out leaving a big bag of fresh water sitting in the ocean/sea to be used as a reservoir until the next ice chunk is shipped in to replace it. easy peasy

pay me when it's all done.

..."As of June 2012, the cost for the desalinated water had risen to $2,329 per acre-foot. Each $1,000 per acre-foot works out to $3.06 for 1,000 gallons, or $.81 per cubic meter. Poseidon Resources made an unsuccessful attempt to construct a desalination plant in Tampa Bay, FL, in 2001."...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desalination

Desalination methods and techniques improve over time and prices should decline hopefully....Water from icebergs still needs to be processed, it's not bottle ready...

https://newatlas.com/metal-organic-framework-filter-water-lithium/53356/

Here is a link to the production cost of water,both globally and in certain areas.:

https://researcher.watson.ibm.com/researcher/view_group.php?id=5047https://researcher.watson.ibm.com/researcher/view_group.php?id=5047

Icebergs to be towed from Antarctica to United Arab Emirates for ...

The Many Failures and Few Successes of Zany Iceberg Towing ...

From yet another source, " A single iceberg-towing vessel can cost around $75,000 a day, and to tow a massive iceberg might need several ships for months at a time. "

...which is why solar-powered desalination reverse osmosis would work in <...United Arab Emirates...> and melting snow and ice on demand would work in, for example, northern Greenland.

There isn't a <...$...> price on everything...

..."DEWA’s(Dubai Electricity & Water Authority) installed power capacity is set to reach 10,356MW with the completion of the expansion. It currently has an installed capacity of 9,656MW of electricity and 470MIGD of desalinated water."...

http://www.waterworld.com/articles/2013/04/dubai-opens-uaes-largest-desalination-plant.html

..."At the end of 2015, there were approximately 18,000 desalination plants worldwide, with a total installed production capacity of 86.55 million m3/day or 22,870 million gallons per day (MGD). Around 44% of this capacity (37.32 million m3/day or 9,860 MGD) is located in the Middle East and North Africa. While desalination in that region is projected to grow continuously at a rate of 7 to 9 percent per year, the “hot spots” for accelerated desalination development over the next decade are expected to be Asia, the US and Latin America."...

http://www.iwa-network.org/desalination-past-present-future/

My understanding is the biggest engineering problem is actually holding on to and moving it without causing it to tip or roll over which can be extremely hazardous since most of the mass is under water. Apparently icebergs are surprisingly unstable, especially when they start to melt in warmer waters.

The other would be motive power necessary to get that much mass moving.

All these are overcomeable, but it may not be economically feasible to do so which is really the biggest hurdle.

The best I can come up with is to herd smaller icebergs into natural ocean currents which greatly decrease the motive force required and simplifies the transport method. This has disadvantages however, namely where the icebergs end up.

The other alternative is ridiculously simple. Build the desalination plant or mining plant onto the ship, extract the ice from the source at site and place it into large supertankers for transport around the world.

While this scheme is not economically feasible now it may be in the near future as fresh water starts to run out and prices start to rise.

They towed icebergs up the coast of Chile back in the 1800s, but for the ice to keep their beer cold rather than for the water, and they regularly tow bergs away from oil rigs up North.

I think you would need some sort of container to "bag" the iceberg to keep the water as it melted....

...then special sails to assist with the load.... and large rudder(s) to aid in steering....

Like this, only bigger....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-509738/Return-sail-power-Maiden-voyage-worlds-merchant-ship-powered-giant-kite.html

Then a specially designed tug boat for long distance ....preferably nuclear powered...

http://gcaptain.com/ship-photos-long-haul-ocean-towing/

You would need a crew that road the iceberg to manage the sails and steering.....

OK on the bag before shipping, but maybe the fresh water can be sucked into the ship as it melts to keep the drag reduced.. then the water can be pumped back into the bag at port.

You won't get too far south (I mean lower latitudes..) before this starts to happen...

This is the point where a rake and bag could be used to load a ship, but not the haul you would expect from towing some huge intact piece of ice.

Here are some ideas:

A. The iceberg ice water pipeline, like the Alaska oil pipeline.

B. Since fresh water is less dense than salt water, filling plastic bottles at the source and letting them float to the destination.

C. Not sure if this would work - if the icebergs were tied together in a line, would the melting bergs create motion to " pull " the still frozen ones ?

Google: water wars map, then choose, " images ".

As far as freshwater in bags, there was some investigation effort put into loading tropical water into VERY large bladders offshore in Aus tropics and letting the East Australian Current take them South along the coast. Last I heard, the EAC was running around 4 knots.

There was also an Aussie April 1st prank a few years back where an iceberg was towed into Sydney Harbour (Styrofoam on a barge) following some weeks of media releases hinting at getting an iceberg from Antarctica.

This has already been done, look up BBC Tomorrows world towing ice bergs.

Bazzer

cape town is a 5 day cruise from ice.

They're talking about iceberg towing feasibility once again... a bit late to the party.

http://www.capetalk.co.za/articles/290276/salvage-master-explains-why-towing-icebergs-from-antarctica-is-a-solution

And this was also entertained back in 2002...

https://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/prof-hatches-iceberg-plan-for-sa-water-needs-83989

According to the present proponent Sloane, 1000 nautical miles to free icebergs (5 day "cruise"? ) with towing speed however not more than 1 per hour. With minor allowance of time to find and hook up a suitable berg, it could be about a two month tow in ideal circumstances, more likely 3-4 months minimum given the slightest regard for weather inclemency let alone handling difficulties...okay, a very ambitious project would set 6 months as a reasonable goal for berg delivery. and this is obvious, since Sloane didn't set off on a berg hunt with the final 90 days notice.

I was thinking about the distance to Antarctica and the cruising speed of container ships.

I sure wasn't thinking of the crawling pace of 1kph

thanks for setting me straight.

I'm quite glad I'm not in Cape Town.

I pay a flat rate for water rather than use the optional meter system

location location location

Yeah... situations like Cape Town make me glad enough for the tradeoffs. Not warm enough to grow grapes here but... My artesian well cost a bundle at the time $6000 because they had to go so deep, but luckily they struck abundant water, I have never been short. Even when people in the city near by are not allowed to water their lawns, I have more than I need. And the people in my community who opted for the same regional water supply - basically pond water piped a significant distance - I said no thanks. They've been paying $400 a year in water tax and now it's gone up to $600/yr. That far exceeds the occasional expense - pump replacement last summer was a bite at around $1000 after tax, but that is after 25 years. I'm way ahead financially and the water is great.... and never short.

As for SA, I hope they solve the iceberg towing puzzle...

Actually it wouldn't be a bad puzzle to solve overall. Since the meltwater from Greenland and the Arctic is also going to cause more and more troubles on the Eastern seaboard, how convenient would it be to just whisk the excess ice off to someplace where it's needed... !

What becomes of the $600.00 ?

Presumably it goes to pay for the water! (Not to mention the infrastructure cost, to get it there in the first place - which was at least partially a big debt. And maintenance..) There was a big row in the past election, they were planning to install meters and charge based on usage but people didn't want that. Apparently it would have cost quite a bit extra. There are known or rumored leaks in the system, and the previous town council reasoned that installing meters on homes would help them to find the leaks. They were voted out, some other strategy has prevailed.

I can imagine a berg being towed to SA, by the time it got there with the heat of the water and air it being just enough to put in your G&T.

Bazzer

Get em while they're hot.

https://phys.org/news/2018-02-antarctic-ice-loss-sharper-focus.html

I doubt there are more than 20 years worth of bergs left on the North Atlantic side of the Arctic. Just pulling the figure of "20" out of a hat.

But apparently the Antarctic bergs are more cube-shaped than ours so considered a better bet for towing. By the time they figure how to handle odd collapsing shapes there won't be enough left to make it worth while. This is especially annoying because the "cold blob" off Greenland and the stream of glacial bits now measured in "Manhattans", makes it unnecessary to cool a gin and tonic with ice here in midsummer... just leave it out in the breeze for two minutes.

What about the Orange river?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_River

From what I understand in reading on Wikipedia, a pipeline or aquaduct would need to be built to cross the Great Karoo. Then flow down the Great Escarpment, across the Little Karoo, between the cape Town mountains, then into cape Town. It looks like at 30* east latitude, the Orange river borders Namibia, so I'm guessing that you would need to build before that point. A couple of problems pointed out in Wikipedia is that in the winter, the orange river freezes up in lesotho and when it does thaw, that, great torrents of sediment laden water rushes down toward the wadi's. Wikipedia says that at the mouth of port Alexander the outflow is 12,980 cu ft per second or 97090.4 us gallons. From what I understand, somewhere after the river passes 30* , diamond mining operations are going on north and south of the river and the last 20 (?) miles before the Atlantic the river has sandbars and rapids.

If you were going to put a pipeline or aquaduct in, where along the Orange river do you think the best place would be ?

Check this out:

http://www.providice.com/acc-1.html

"About 140,000 shaft horsepower is needed for towing at about 2 knots per hour of 1200 meters long x 400 meters wide x 200 meters thick."

That's the easy part.

If we could harness all of the hot air from the world's politicians and bag it, we could air-lift the largest iceberg to anywhere in the world.

The really good part,is the hot air is an infinite supply that is continuously growing over time.

I think that a better solution would be to cut the bergs and feed them into a super tanker slightly heated to melt the ice and transport water instead of ice, Pulling a berg you're pulling a lot of air with it, carrying water it's all water.

Bazzer.

Same displacement if you cut the berg into standard cargo container size and stacked them on deck,saving the energy required to melt them,which is a lot more than you may realize,which is 334 Kj/kg.(latent heat)

However,if the ballast tanks could be properly designed,the melt water that naturally occurs could be stored in them.

A dual ballast tank system come to mind,one for seawater ballast,and the other for melt water. As the melt water increased,the sea water could be pumped out to maintain balance.

Alternatively,the melt water could be stored in a large bag floating on top of the sea water ballast.As the fresh water filled the bag,it would force sea water out,maintaining basically the same ballast level.(My personal preference).

This could be pumped with very little energy,possibly powered by a pendulum pump using the natural rocking of the ship to move the water.

That way the delivery of ice and water could be done with minimum energy,and the water due to natural melting would save energy at the receiving end by not having to be melted.

A super cargo container ship could carry a lot of water and ice.

Eventually the price of water will exceed the price of oil,and it will become profitable to implement some of these methods.

A very thirsty man does not care about price of water.

If I had the resources,I would be designing and patenting some methods and devices for future needs.

Post Script:

The ice could also be sold to operators of turbine generator systems because cold air is much denser and efficient that warm air.

Some utilities are making their own ice to use in their turbine air inlets to increase efficiency.

This is a case of where you get more energy out than you put in to freeze the water.

You could use the Water from the cooling systems of the engines to melt the ice which would cost nothing except the initial installation of pipes around the tanks.

Bazzer