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Gas Formulation Costs

09/10/2007 9:36 AM

What was meant on the business report this morning that US gas prices should stabilize because refineries are switching from a summer formula to a winter formula? Why would a winter formula be less expensive to manufacture? I thought extra additives were needed maintain flow properties at low temperatures.

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Guru
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#1

Re: Gas Formulation Costs

09/10/2007 10:27 AM

'Gas' = gasoline/petrol?

Because in the winter in higher latitudes they fill the blend up with as much butane as they can get away with, which gives easier starting (and coincidentally reduces the energy value per unit volume....) in cold weather. Butanes are normally used as a heating source at the refinery and there's usually an imbalance, which the winter formula partly corrects.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Gas Formulation Costs

09/10/2007 10:33 AM

Oh wow! I attributed my 10% fuel economy drop in the winter to higher road resistance in the snow tires and cold temperature starts. Apparently there lower energy per volume fuel has a good deal to do with it.

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Guru
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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Gas Formulation Costs

09/10/2007 10:57 AM

Yes, indeed.

And the higher viscosity of the air through which it passes at the lower temperatures.

And the additional load presented by the lights, heater, screen wash pump, wipers, etc.

And the heavier occupants all filled up with presents and Christmas Pud.

The reply would suggest a location in the Northern Hemisphere. It's different for antipodeans, because of the Coriolis Effect.

There was another thread on this topic recently. Something about a car going round a racetrack and using more fuel in the winter versus the summer, or something like that. Plenty of two-penn'orth there. Boredom caused unsubscription......

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Gas Formulation Costs

09/11/2007 12:03 PM

Hilarious -but every bit TRUE.

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#6
In reply to #2

Re: Gas Formulation Costs

09/11/2007 1:59 PM

I remember years ago (~30yrs ago) running through the calculations of gas/petrol costs and the energy available fom various formulations. At that time, early in the surge to add ethanol to the mix, the results suggested that replacing octane-type compounds with ethanol only resulted in reducing the amount of energy in a gallon of the mixture. In going back through the numbers, it struck me that the suppiers were reducing the gasoline price by the amount of the energy supplied. As an automobile will consume gasoline (or gasohol mixes) based on the energy (ie:energy is what runs the vehicle), adding ethanol to gasolinbe is a lose-lose situation for motorists. They will likely be paying the same amount for less energy, and the governments gets more tax revenues (ie: they tax based on a volume of gas). If you use more gas because it contains less energy content, you are also increasing your tax load.


Fairness would indicate that we should move to a weight-based system at defined energy or an energy/unit weight (ie:BTU/lb) system of providing gasoline to consumers.

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#5

Re: Gas Formulation Costs

09/11/2007 12:29 PM

MTBE the oxygenator that travels faster that the ground water that it pollutes, mandated federally. Said to reduce smog by lowering emissions by 10% but it lowers mileage, so actual help if any depends on the car.

I've heard that it doesn't burn with the fuel so pollutes the ground but I have seen no data to verify this.

California had it removed because of its environmental concern but the feds made them put it back.

Another case of lobbied money.

off subject: United States number one commodity? politicians.

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: Gas Formulation Costs

09/12/2007 10:17 AM

If a commodity is something of value that can be traded, then you are way off base by describing policians as the US's No. 1 commodity. If you said liability, you might be close to correct (although lawyers also rank high on the list)

even further off subject, sorry!

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Gas Formulation Costs

09/12/2007 11:46 AM

They are bought and sold every day just go to the House and Senate not Wall street and watch the lobbyists.

As for Lawyer they hold a foreign title of esquire (a paper Knight) under the American British Accreditation Regency. Why do we even trust any of them?

You want a real scare read American Jurisprudence( the science of law). It defines a "client" as a person of unsound mind and therefore a ward of the court.

As for our foreign banking system with fiat money don't ask you don't want to know.

good luck Brad

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Gas Formulation Costs

09/12/2007 5:51 PM

I stand corrected!

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