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Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/11/2018 9:49 AM

80,000 tonnes of plastic are floating around in the Pacific Ocean current vortex and killing off marine life.

what solutions can people throw at the problem ?

there is a Dutch organisation already testing floating booms to concentrate it but there needs to be solutions to extract it , transport it and process it.

It’s not a cheap issue to address , the reclaimed and recycled product is not going to produce a profit so it would need corporate sponsors or contributions from governments.

medium sized ships (~10,000 ton) could be fitted with conveyor feeders that drop down into the ocean at this location and use guide shutes to funnel debris towards the conveyor , raise it up to the ship , put it through a trommel screen or cyclone to remove water and then compact the plastics into bales for loading into a mother ship for transport to a shore based site for processing.

Getting it to shore is one thing , but with the multitudes of different plastics plus contaminants of steel fittings and molluscs , it’s not going to be a clean product to recycle.

is it possible that the same system used to recycle car tyres now with heating under a vacuum could also be used to economically convert plastics back into fuel oils ?

It’s tempting to say “just spray the bales with shotcrete and drop them in the ocean when dry” but while being cheap that doesn’t remove the chemical pollutants ...

the ship propulsion units would need to be designed to avoid fouling with plastic debris for a start , filtered water intakes and water jets would feature high on the list when working in the debris field.

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#1

Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/11/2018 10:28 AM

Well, the cost to operate an ocean-going ship ranges from $5,000/day on up, depending on ship size and crew size. That doesn't get rid of it. That just gets it back to shore.

Shipping Under Pressure - Maritime Logistics Professional tells us:

"The following are the daily operating costs for certain categories of tanker, with the corresponding reported average time-charter rates for the year, as reported by Clarksons, shown in parentheses. Handysize product tankers: $7,964 per day ($13,063 per day); Panamaxes: $8,482 ($14,981); Aframaxes: $8,272 ($13,288); Suezmaxes: $9,378 ($16,014)."

So, there's no way it will pay for itself, until a better/cheaper way is found to gather the stuff up and dispose of it.

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#2

Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/11/2018 11:14 AM

Someone like Elon Musk or Mark Zuckerberg could do it....it doesn't need to be a profitable operation as such, but it could be in advertising and good will... Bill Gates and his wife Melinda have been doing these types of public service projects for years...as have many others...We just need a billionaire to adopt this as a special project...but first it must be proven as a real and immediate threat...and I just don't think it's quite there yet....

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#3
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/11/2018 11:20 AM

Good thought. I'm betting there are hurdles there though.

Domino's is filling in potholes in the US to 'protect pizza' has implications of traffic tie-ups and liability and regulatory "pot holes" to fill along the way.

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#14
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/11/2018 4:21 PM

Domino's is filling potholes,...but on hot days, the mozzarella cheese tends to get soft.

Actually, my understanding is that they are giving selected cities grants to go toward road repair.

"Trumbull said that Domino’s began the initiative by working with a third-party organization to identify cities that were open receiving help from the company to repair their potholes. She explained that Domino’s gave these towns a grant, which the city or town used to do the work themselves. They had autonomy over the type of work that needed to be done, when to do it, and also who to hire to do it."

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/dominos-pizza-came-idea-fix-americas-roads-195018525.html

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/11/2018 4:54 PM

That was my understand too.

But, a less than reliable source, who will remain anonymous (because I have to live with her) said otherwise.

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#4

Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/11/2018 11:35 AM

I find it odd that the plastic manufacturers are not more vested in this problem. Not from a responsibility perspective but more of a self-preservation perspective. The present approach of just letting nature eventually figure out how to digest these hydrocarbons will one day produce some form of life that will consume these plastics. When that happens who knows how quickly plastics in use will also be consumed? The plastics industry may no longer be capable to make anything that lasts.

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#10
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/11/2018 1:39 PM

I find it odd that the plastic manufacturers are not more vested in this problem.

Difficult in itself considering the garbage was created cause from manufactures based in a multiple governments. How are the costs shared?

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#17
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/11/2018 5:47 PM

The present approach of just letting nature eventually figure out how to digest these hydrocarbons will one day produce some form of life that will consume these plastics. When that happens who knows how quickly plastics in use will also be consumed? The plastics industry may no longer be capable to make anything that lasts.

Funny you should ask...

https://www.popsci.com/bacteria-enzyme-plastic-waste

The problem with letting life forms solve our problems is that they can easily get out of control. They are looking out for themselves, not for us.

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#19
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/11/2018 6:11 PM

I have seen a few companies just in the last 2-3 years promoting their work with bacteria that eat plastics however if they were released into the ocean what happens when the plastics are eaten and the bacteria decides to multiply and mutate and looks for other things to eat ?

if the bacteria multiplied to outnumber the levels of plankton for example and decide that fish tastes better than plastic , then we will have barren oceans not even safe to swim in.

history has many examples of introduced species that decimate all life but maybe given enough time the bacteria can be engineered to have a time limit on deployed lifespan so they can’t breed and multiply beyond a certain date.

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#20
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/11/2018 7:34 PM

Can I give you a ''GL'' for a G(ood) L(ink)?...

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#5

Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/11/2018 12:10 PM

Strangely enough, the Japanese may have already offered a type of solution to this challenge...

Years ago, they (acquired the political concession) to purchase waste wood products from the lumber mills in the Pacific Northwest of the USA...

They would ship the wood-waste to processing ships just outside the (200-mile limit?...) and (convert) it into Japaneses-Style furniture, and sell it back to the USA as authenic-type made-in-japan designer furniture, and made a handsome profit in the (process)...

How much would it take to reconfigure one, or more, such processing ships to take-in floating plastic waste at the site(s) of (appropriate collection areas), rough-sort it, grind it up, melt it down, and draw it into usability as textiles for furniture padding, rain-wear, designer drapes, etc., ?... and ship/fly such products, with various Japanese Designer Labels added, to the nearest mainland for re-sale? ... (again?...)

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#6

Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/11/2018 12:58 PM

Found this....

..."The Ocean Cleanup, one of a growing number of organisations aiming to rid the oceans of plastic, is to begin operations in the Great Pacific Garbage Patch next year.

At an event in Utrecht, The Netherlands, The Ocean Cleanup showcased an improved design of its cleanup system, aiming to reduce the time taken to clean up half the Great Pacific Garbage Patch to just five years. It also revealed that parts of its first cleanup system are already in production.

Rather than fixing the first cleanup system to the seabed, the new design uses 12 metre high sea anchors to ensure the floating screens move slower than the plastic.

The improved, modular cleanup system consists of a number of large U-shaped barriers, suspended by floats, which cause plastic to float to a central point where it is extracted and shipped to shore for recycling.

Testing will begin off the US west coast by the end of this year, while the first deployment — halfway between California and Hawaii in the Great Pacific Garbage Patch — will begin in early 2018.

The Ocean Cleanup chief executive Boyan Slat, who came up with the concept aged just 17, said: “At The Ocean Cleanup we are always looking for ways to make the cleanup faster, better and cheaper. Today is another important day in moving in that direction. The cleanup of the world’s oceans is just around the corner.”

Meanwhile, a Norwegian billionaire has contracted the world’s largest yacht to scoop up five tons of plastic every day."....

https://dailyplanet.climate-kic.org/cleaning-great-pacific-garbage-patch-begin-next-year/

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#7
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/11/2018 1:11 PM

That's a good start.

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#16
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/11/2018 5:44 PM

To scoop up 5 tons they would have to scoop up all the plastic in a 12000 acre area even in the most concentrated parts of the "garbage patch". That is a lot of water to filter in a day!

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#18
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/11/2018 6:03 PM

No

in places it is concentrated up to 5 feet deep . You could walk on it.

the concentrating boom being tested now by the Dutch group will gather up the low concentrations so a collecting ship can pick it up in bulk.

i wasn’t aware of the Norwegian .org , that’s what’s needed.

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#21
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/11/2018 10:30 PM

You could walk on it.

You can't actually walk on it. It is mostly made up of tiny pieces of plastic.

"While "Great Pacific Garbage Patch" is a term often used by the media, it does not paint an accurate picture of the marine debris problem in the North Pacific Ocean. The name "Pacific Garbage Patch" has led many to believe that this area is a large and continuous patch of easily visible marine debris items such as bottles and other litter—akin to a literal island of trash that should be visible with satellite or aerial photographs. This is not the case.

— Ocean Facts, National Ocean Service[50]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_garbage_patch

"The amount of debris in the Great Pacific Garbage Patch accumulates because much of it is not biodegradable. Many plastics, for instance, do not wear down; they simply break into tinier and tinier pieces. 



For many people, the idea of a “garbage patch” conjures up images of an island of trash floating on the ocean. In reality, these patches are almost entirely made up of tiny bits of plastic, called microplastics. Microplastics can’t always be seen by the naked eye. Even satellite imagery doesn’t show a giant patch of garbage. The microplastics of the Great Pacific Garbage Patch can simply make the water look like a cloudy soup. This soup is intermixed with larger items, such as fishing gear and shoes. "

https://www.nationalgeographic.org/encyclopedia/great-pacific-garbage-patch/

Nevertheless, it's still a problem. As they say, you can't throw anything away, there is no "away" in a closed environment. The solution to pollution is not dilution.

In the long run, it would take a lot less effort to deal with it before it is discarded than to have to go fish it out of the ocean.

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#22
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/11/2018 11:48 PM

..."Pollution of the oceans by tiny pieces of plastic debris is now so widespread that only radical action to eliminate the waste at source can limit further damage to marine wildlife, according to scientists.

Microplastics, which can range in size from being invisible to the naked eye to just a few millimetres in diameter, are now turning up in all the world's major oceans including the Arctic and Antarctic, and it is no longer feasible to think it may be possible to simply "clear up the mess", researchers add.

Most people are aware of the visible plastic pollution such as discarded bottles and other waste items washed up on beaches, but it is the invisible plastics that are likely to pose the bigger risks to animals and plants, say marine scientists Karen Lavender Law and Richard Thompson. And they warn that the problems will only get worse unless drastic action is taken to curb the sale of disposable plastic products worldwide and dispel the idea that plastic waste can be just thrown away.

"Microplastics are likely the most numerically abundant items of plastic debris in the ocean today, and quantities will inevitably increase, in part because large, single plastic items ultimately degrade into millions of microplastic pieces," according to Lavender and Thompson's report in the journal Science.

"Given concerns over microplastics, the temptation may be to 'clean up the mess', but substantial removal of microplastic debris from the environment is not feasible. Identification and elimination of some of the major inputs of plastic waste is a more promising route, as is reduced consumption and the recognition of plastic waste as a [reusable] resource," the report says.

Microplastics are easily ingested by fish, mussels and other sea animals, and there is growing scientific evidence linking them to the passage of deadly, persistent chemicals through the environment, such as the pesticide DDT and toxic PCBs, making them more concentrated when they come into contact with marine life, the report warns.

Professor Thompson, a marine biologist at Plymouth University, first coined the term "microplastics" in 2004. It includes larger plastic items that have been degraded down in size as well as tiny plastic "micro-beads" used to exfoliate skin in soaps, creams and other products, which are deliberately designed to be washed down the drain.

"We know that a range of organisms will eat these microplastics and the prevalence in populations of some species may reach 80 per cent," he said. "Microplastic beads may also lead to the transfer of chemical contaminants into the animals that ingest the plastic. This is in addition to the physical damage done by the plastic itself.""...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/microplastic-waste-this-massive-tiny-threat-to-sea-life-is-now-in-every-ocean-9602430.html

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#27
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/12/2018 10:55 AM

It seems we've created the dreaded 'Grey Goo', albeit it's form is a surprise version perhaps even more insidious than the original concept....

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#25
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/12/2018 8:46 AM

“Less effort to deal with it before its discarded”

yes.

Fitting strainers / filtration at stormwater drain outlets to catch plastic debris before it gets to the oceans is a winner but they need to have the capability to continually self clean and dump the debris into waste skips which is not an easy process to engineer when you have such a wide range of product types.

ciggarette butts , syringe needles , plastic bags , bottle tops and drink bottles are so diverse in their dynamics yet ideally you want to catch as near to 100% of it as possible.

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#30
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/12/2018 1:16 PM

Apparently, the main sources are ten rivers in about 5 countries where hundreds of millions of people live and dispose of waste plastic in the nearest river where it conveniently disappears.

"It turns out that about 90 percent of all the plastic that reaches the world's oceans gets flushed through just 10 rivers: The Yangtze, the Indus, Yellow River, Hai River, the Nile, the Ganges, Pearl River, Amur River, the Niger, and the Mekong (in that order).

These rivers have a few key things in common. All of them run through areas where a lot of people live — hundreds of millions of people in some cases. But what's more important is that these areas don't have adequate waste collection or recycling infrastructure. There is also little public awareness that plastic trash is a problem at all, so a lot of garbage, gets thrown into the river and conveniently disappears downstream."

https://www.dw.com/en/almost-all-plastic-in-the-ocean-comes-from-just-10-rivers/a-41581484

It would be much more efficient and less costly to stem the problem at the source before it reaches the ocean.

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#31
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/12/2018 2:09 PM

Good report. Thanks!

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#33
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/12/2018 3:13 PM

China and India should implement a buy back program such as we had back in the day...I spent many a day collecting bottles along the road, and returning home after hitting the local 7-11 with pockets full of candy....Let's face it, if the local governments in these nations are not on board, this is an unsolvable problem....You would think that in poorer countries recycling would be even bigger than in the US...

Well it turns out, it is....

..."China's plastics recycling rate in 2013 was about 22 percent – far higher than the United States, which averages about 9 percent annually. This figure, representing around 13.6 million metric tons, includes international and domestic scrap.Dec 13, 2017"...

A 2017 study projected that if current global use patterns and waste management trends continue, by 2050 the world will have recycled 9 billion metric tons (9,000 million metric tons) of plastic waste, incinerated 12 billion metric tons and discarded 12 billion metric tons in landfills or the natural environment. Geyer et al., Science Advances, July 19, 2017, CC BY-NC

..."Scrap exports to China took off in the early 2000s following the lifting of broader trade restrictions. In 2012 China received nearly half of all the plastic waste that Americans sent abroad for recycling and about one-third of the European Union’s plastic waste exports. According to one 2014 study, China received 56 percent by weight of global scrap plastic exports.

This trade makes economic sense all around. Shipping is cheap: Cargo ships carry goods from China to Western countries and carry scrap back, a process known as reverse haulage. China’s booming industries are located near major ports and hungry for plastics they do not yet produce at home, so they willingly pay for high-quality imported scrap to reuse. For U.S.-based waste collectors, selling scrap to a broker to be shipped to China is cheaper than sending it to recycling facilities at home.

Plastic scrap is especially problematic. It has low economic value and is hard to recycle. It also breaks down extremely slowly in the environment, as evidenced by the buildup of plastic debris in the world’s oceans. Few are aware that up to half of the plastic waste we throw into recycling bins in Berkeley, New York or Omaha has wound up on container ships to China."....

http://theconversation.com/will-chinas-crackdown-on-foreign-garbage-force-wealthy-countries-to-recycle-more-of-their-own-waste-81440

https://www.wastedive.com/news/what-chinese-import-policies-mean-for-all-50-states/510751/

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#38
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/12/2018 4:33 PM

There you have it.

The United Nations should simply take care of the Gyre, make out ten proportional invoices, and mail them out to the parties responsible for the listed waterways.

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#39
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/12/2018 5:03 PM

I heard the UN was collapsing. Someone threatened...............oh never mind.

I think Del has a better idea. Distraction.

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#45
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/16/2018 9:50 AM

and the countries will then send them to the USA so that we can pay... oh wait, that was before our great president Trump whom will send the invoices back along with shipping and handling charges.

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#8

Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/11/2018 1:26 PM

Collect it up and burn it in the ship's boilers or purpose built incinerators. No need to ship it back to shore or complicated plastic-to-fuel systems.

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#34
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/12/2018 4:01 PM

But the emissions from your incinerators would be high in carcinogens which would be deposited back in the ocean or your lungs.

sure there are ways to filter and reduce emissions but I prefer the option of converting plastic back to fuel oil which produces no harmful fumes , gives you $$ return on the balance sheet and gives you a more balanced equation on your environmental footprint.

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#35
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/12/2018 4:21 PM

Show me the money.

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#36
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/12/2018 4:23 PM

Collect the garbage, Put it in a 4" x 4" x 4" box,... give it a name, and put a price tag on it.

it's the next 'pet rock'

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#37
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/12/2018 4:25 PM

Ooooh, I think you're on to something there.

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#40
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/12/2018 5:11 PM

It's been done....

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#41
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/12/2018 10:24 PM

Yeah , GA on that one.

dont forget the viral Facebook campaign that credits it with mystical powers to rid the home of nozone and it will sell 10 million in the first week.

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#42
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/13/2018 6:43 AM

And promote it that if worn in your front pocket, that it cures E.D.

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#9

Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/11/2018 1:36 PM

With the variety of garbage. I wonder what it would take to create a off shore floating processing rig to either break down the plastic or process it into a more usable material.

It wouldn't be profitable, but be more like a consortium of governments funded environmental clean up. With cost sharing being an issue.

Where also the power can be generated by the caloric value of the waste itself.

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#24
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/12/2018 8:03 AM

Why not extend that theme and build the plastics recycling plant at sea to convert the plastics back into fuel oil and sell it to ships directly....

downside being storms and risk of oil spills BUT I wouldn’t discount the potential.

upside is that ships wouldn’t have to carry so much weight of fuel so their fuel consumption would be lower.

downside is ... lol that plastic processing rates probably wouldn’t match the fuel demands at your floating gas station at sea .

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#26
In reply to #24

Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/12/2018 9:13 AM

... lol that plastic processing rates probably wouldn’t match the fuel demands at your floating gas station at sea .

Use plastic waste as the fuel.

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#11

Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/11/2018 2:38 PM

Where's an 'old-fashioned' COAL burning steam ship when we need one...or two...or three?

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#12
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/11/2018 2:44 PM

Many coal-burning steamships are on the bottom of the ocean.

Many now believe the USS Maine sank because of a coal dust explosion.

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#29
In reply to #12

Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/12/2018 12:37 PM

There's more than <...80,000 tonnes...> of coal-fired shipping on the sea floor. What is there to do with that, then?

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#13
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/11/2018 3:46 PM
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#23

Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/12/2018 12:48 AM

a UK company may offer part of the solution... LINK

It can also recycle plastic bottles and bags

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#28

Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/12/2018 11:03 AM

I would agree that the best way to control the issue, if you wanted to do so, is at the source.

However, the source is typically rivers and the major sources are South and Central America, Equatorial Africa and Southeast Asia. The US and Europe aren't major contributors, so the Starbucks straw ban is mostly just making noise for publicity.

https://www.theoceancleanup.com/sources/

The plastics being discussed are specific gravity 1 or less that float or can stay in suspension. It doesn't address those that sink, which will likely be found in river beds and at river mouths on the ocean bed. These will likely be rediscovered as rich carbon/organic rock deposits in the distant future, such as we currently find petrochemical deposits now.

There is not much evidence at present that floating plastics are a sea life health issue beyond the bird or fish that occasionally ends up wearing a six ring can carrier or perforating a gut by swallowing a plastic straw. Ingestion of microplastic beads hasn't been shown to be an issue. When Nylon was first invented, it was expected to persist forever. However, existing bacteria evolved to start digesting Nylon within 40 years of it's creation. Nature is pretty good at adapting to use any scrap of energy available and I expect most plastic formulations will have some digesting organism before too many decades have passed.

At this point, China is no longer accepting plastic waste, so it is destined for landfill unless someone comes up with an economically viable reuse/repurpose stream for the material. There was a recent article about a reshaped bottle that when empty is useable as an interlocking "brick" for a dwelling. Standardized containers would be a start with intended end uses designed into the form. Styrofoam was generally banned after the ozone hole issue with fluorocarbon gasses, although by the time the ban hit North America, the expander in the foam had been changed to CO2. One firm I was aware of specifically searched for sources of Styrofoam to grind and mix with concrete for a 75 pound cinderblock type brick that was 12" x 12" x 18" and suitable for exterior structural walls in buildings. The company went out of business because McDonalds switched from foam to paper and they couldn't find enough Styrofoam recycle to make the product. The "feel-good" regulators managed to eliminate a product that didn't contribute to the problem and killed viable businesses down the value stream as well. I live in Oregon and "legislature" is a synonym for "bag of hammers".

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#32

Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/12/2018 2:29 PM

Tell Donald Trump it would make a good holiday resort and golf club.....
Del

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#46
In reply to #32

Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/17/2018 5:51 AM

"Fake News."

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#43

Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/16/2018 8:39 AM

why not just have the ships burn the plastic (with scrubbers of course) for fuel to continue with the erradication.

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#44
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/16/2018 8:51 AM

on the ship, you'd need a treatment plant also to treat the scrubber water.

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#47

Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/17/2018 8:07 AM
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#48
In reply to #47

Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/17/2018 8:39 AM

Beautiful thanks.

thats what I envisioned for the conveyor to lift concentrated debris into the boat , except about 4 times wider and extending around 2 meters below the surface when lowered down to its operating position

it would need rotary knives at the intake to the conveyor to slice off anything oversize and prevent blockages .

with ocean debris comprising nets , fishing line and rope there is also the risk of entanglement in the conveyor drive or rollers so the design would need to also incorporate a belt type to minimise this and utilise fixed knives at appropriate locations to trim off tangles.

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#50
In reply to #48

Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/17/2018 12:09 PM

Yes, such up-scaling as you suggest, and re-configuring the bow of an ocean-going vessel in order to effectively process enough (tons-per-hour ?...) to make it profitable, is a better way to go...

Your good, thoughtful, feedback is most appreciated, and gets a GA from me...

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#51
In reply to #50

Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/17/2018 1:22 PM

I quite honestly doubt there is a profitable way to effectively reduce the gyre appreciably - if there were, it would be in process now.

This is going to be a red-ink affair.

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#52
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/17/2018 1:26 PM

Yup... the profit motive is the big problem with the world.
Was a time when making enough to pay everyone a reasonable wage, and pay for maintenance, rent, new equipment etc was enough. Now everyone has to make a profit...
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#53
In reply to #52

Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/17/2018 1:31 PM

The cash incentive to not toss the plastic in the river in the first place was too low, how can adding the ocean recovery expense improve the money?

This is very much a ‘Make the World a Better Place’ enterprise.

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#54
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/17/2018 1:39 PM

I hate the phrase, "value added reseller."

I blame the stock market for forgetting yesterday's profits in quest of today's and tomorrow's and next week's.

Who profits? Not the workers and sometimes not even shareholders. (GM stock is a great example)

As we lead the way in the USA, humanitarianism is now a dirty word.

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#57
In reply to #54

Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/17/2018 3:35 PM

That's middle men. The Golfrinchians solved that.

You realize that the cost of any good or service is the sum of the salaries paid to everyone in the production and distribution chain. That's why the cost of medical care has run away. Doctor and nurse to office assistant insurance coder to insurance company coder to insurance company reviewer to accounting clerk to payment clerk to doctors accounting clerk to billing specialist to you to doctors accounts receivable clerk to doctors accountant to doctor and nurse. And that's the bare bones simplified stream if there are no questions, appeals, pharmaceutical supply or medical equipment supply branches added on.

You also realize that vegetarians eat vegetables, so humanitarians must eat humans. Cannibalism is a sad problem, considered to be impolite in most communities, and I can see why humanitarians are so repressed by the man.

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#58
In reply to #57

Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/17/2018 4:08 PM

That's too many steps (my wife is an insurance administrator for a large municipality), but your point is well taken. There's still too many and no relief in sight for medical and especially DRUG charges from anyone with the power to correct it!

As far as cannibalism goes, I see nothing wrong with smoking a little pot now and again.

Finally, it's Golgafrinchan, and I have a seat on the first flight.

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#59
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/17/2018 4:22 PM

Yes, but the second flight leaves first, if you remember the story.

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#60
In reply to #59

Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/17/2018 4:34 PM

Flight A. No flotsam and jetsam here.

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#61
In reply to #60

Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/17/2018 5:48 PM

Yup, just death by a virulent disease contracted from a dirty telephone.

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#62
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Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/17/2018 6:58 PM

Wasn't that what happened to those left behind on Golgafrincham ?

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#63
In reply to #62

Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/18/2018 11:08 AM

Yup. The A ark and C ark never left after shipping off the dead weight in the B ark. Those intended for the A and C arks stayed behind and died of plague.

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#64
In reply to #63

Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/18/2018 11:14 AM

That.....................that............that means that I am dead. Oh well, it was a good life.

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#65
In reply to #64

Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/18/2018 11:27 AM

I helped out with a habitat for humanity wall build. We fabbed up flat wall panels in a parking lot, loaded them on a truck for final assembly at the site.

During the nail up, I found that those nailing the top and bottom plates to the studs were more effective if I stood on the stud and kept it from sliding. I referred to those standing on the studs as "dead weight" or "management candidates". As in, "Where's Elizabeth? We need some dead weight."

Just goes to show you that he who weights also serves.

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#67
In reply to #65

Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/18/2018 12:30 PM

Oh no!

I was an engineering manager and a director of engineering at a couple of different companies.

Does that mean that I was dead weight, or just an oxymoron?

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#66
In reply to #64

Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/18/2018 11:56 AM

Just don't use a telephone and you'll be alright.

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#49
In reply to #47

Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/17/2018 10:57 AM

The video reminded me of this:

It's called a fish wheel. It's fixed in position and it operates off the river current. No reason a variant of it couldn't pick up trash.

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#55
In reply to #49

Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/17/2018 2:12 PM

and marine life..

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#56
In reply to #55

Re: Great Pacific Garbage Patch Solutions

07/17/2018 3:15 PM

Clean up trash and a free lunch. Win-win.

Though I suppose you could catch and release.

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