Lead in Chinese products

"Everyone is looking at lead content in toys and now jewelry made in China."

No it's just the one that has gotten the most press because it effects our children.

Regarding the Lead in printing inks,you are generalizing because of a few greedy individuals in the business community that have no morals. This has happened many times in the US. as well.Greed is Universal,I represent a Chinese company that has a very clean and environmentally sound product.What this company did was wrong and they will be punished,most likely,a long prison term or death. In the US this crime is to often commonplace and most times the sentence is not severe enough.

I must disagree with you Soya 123. Lead paint has not been sold in the United States since 1978 so your statement "In the US this crime is often commonplace" is wrong and you are dishonorable for stating this untruth as fact.

If the Chinese desire to enjoy the respect of the rest of the world they and you as their representative, must stop avoiding responsibility for your "crimes". You must also stop whining about what other countries do. It is a juvenile attempt to minimize your deceptive practices.

You cannot buy honor. China has willingly dishonored itself and no anmount of complaining about others will restore China to preeminance in the marketplace. You must now EARN honor. It will be a very long and difficult road you and China. There is the distinct possibility that neither of you may ever become honorable.

I think his intent was not that lead paint is used in American products, but that inferior materials are used and safety standards are not followed.

I have worked for companies that were guilty of this (not for long, though) and must acknowledge that he's right.

However, our market place, government agencies and NGO's like UL usually reveal the problem quickly and it's dealt with without loss of life.

On the other hand, whether or not it happens here is not revelant. It should not happen anywhere. As long as do take on a "holier than thou" attitude, we are right to protest the problems and return the products.

Make that "As long as we do not take a "holier than thou attitude"

Sorry

You're right Harry, the west also put lead in housepaint and on toys etc, then the scientists discovered what it did to people, made the information widely known and the west stop using it, that was in the 50's and 60's which means the Chinese don't have a credible excuse for using it now.

The same can be said for asbestos, but you can bet your last penny there's plenty of it freely breathed in China, no doubt in some of the stuff we buy.

taejonkwando,if you read my comment now where did I state that the US. is using lead paints. I stated ,the US along with many nations violate the same practice of contamination, dumping, pollution as the Chinese did in this case.I am not whining about other countries, I am simply stating this is a problem of greedy and self- serving business companies that worship the currency above all else.I think you need to get your head out of where it is and face reality. I also think you need to get off your high horse and recognize the problem that greedy and self-serving people come in all countries, colors, and nationalities.Yes these Chinese were dishonorable, but we have to combat all these practices worldwide.Lighten up, it's not good for your disposition. Peace and Love.

Quote:

"Regarding the Lead in printing inks,you are generalizing because of a few greedy individuals in the business community that have no morals. This has happened many times in the US...In the US this crime is to often commonplace and most times the sentence is not severe enough."

I believe is where the idea came from. To native english speakers, a sentence whose subject is a general reference back to a specific reference is understood to be the reflection of the original specific reference.

To assure no misunderstandings, people should use specifics when they mean specifics, and separate paragraphs when the abstract reflexive noun "This'" or "this crime" is NOT meant to reflect the immediately preceding Subject(s).

In the above quote, The specific instance you stated was "Lead in printing inks."

It was immediately reflected by the "This" that started the following sentence.

For clarity I edited out some of your quote, but the next "this", by lack of a specific qualifier, refers back to the original specific instance, in this case, Lead in printing inks.

And then "this crime" has nothing to refer back t except the original specific, you guessed it, Lead in priinting inks.

If there is a misunderstanding, it is that you referred specifically to lead in inks, and taejonkwando responded regarding lead in paints.

To most of us, both of these nouns mean "colored pigments in a fluid ." but if taejonkwando erred, it was using paints as a synonym for inks, which we believe is a minor point, given the casual discipline of language that we all encounter daily.

As to combatting these practices world wide, we agree and are longing for the day that the Chinese authorities and producing businesses respond as well as the authorities and businesses in the United States and the rest of the world have in recent issues,, say Firestone tires failures compred to the Hangzhou Zhonce Rubber company's handling of their quality shortfall. Or The makers of contaminated toothpaste and pet food ingredients to say, Tylenol's recall back in the 1980's.

Until China's institutions- govt, business, and NGO institutes- shows some rudimentary understanding of standards and adherence to terms of contracts, Honorable companies such as the one that you represent, will be seen as the minority of Chinese companies by those of us who recognize "crap" when we see it. And we'll wait and see if they do actually comply with the letter of the agreements.

And caveat emptor will remain how those of us who love our families will protect them against the greed and lack of understanding of all businesses and government authorities who think they can get away with not supplying exactly as agreed.

No high horses here, just experience.

milo

Holy Crap, what did you say, you lost me until I got to your paragraph,As to combating these practices. I also speak from experience,but I will not or have desired to speak as eloquently as yourself,could you be in Politics or possibly my old English teacher. Bottom line boys and girls, what the Chinese did was wrong and anybody else that deceives the consumers should be punished, not necessarily by death,only kidding,maybe a few lashes. by the way caveat emptor is a noun meaning BUYER BEWARE and if you are still on your HIGH HORSE with your ELOQUENT ENGLISH and SENTENCE STRUCTURE combating is spelled with one T.

We graciously accept your suggestion for continuous improvement.

I am merely a metallurgist who was responsible for product quality of steel going into automotive, aerospace, and myriads of other human safety critical applications.

milo "no high horse, no low horse, merely horsepower"

A metallurgist I can handle,you speak my language,my main business interest would be supplying a metallurgist like yourself the raw materials that our processed and manufactured,in applications such as automotive, aerospace and myriads of other human safety critical applications. We enjoy working with many mills, mini-mills,and various types of foundries worldwide. I love metallurgists. no attitude, no high nose,just simple non-ferrous, and ferrous.

I must agree with other posters here, Your last paragraph speaks loudly and true.

BUT -- I couldn't make heads or tails of the rest of this post --- I seems like something a person would hear in a courtroom i.e. Lawyereze. Sorry -- if you state your case clearly point by point it would be great.

English is my first language and the sentence structure and word useage you describe make no sense to me.

Below is not clear to me --- really sorry but what does this mean?? ---

I believe is where the idea came from. To native english speakers, a sentence whose subject is a general reference back to a specific reference is understood to be the reflection of the original specific reference.

No offense intended but please state your point of view -- not an english lesson.

soya123: says "most likely,a long prison term or death"

DEATH is quite an Extreme penalty for an offense like this (Heavy fines, close the business, long jail terms, all of the above OK,) --- but DEATH, for this type of thing is unacceptable to me and probably many others.

Maybe this is an indicator of the lack of respect for human life in China, in addition to, a lack of respect for the concept of fairness and honesty in business.

Don't kill someone just to try to convince the rest of the world that you are honest in business.

They don't actually put them to death with a bullet, that's western propaganda (the Chinese are very nice people, especially the women - sorry, tangent!). They send them down coal mines, it's a far quicker death and they die for Chinese democracy...double whammy!

I have traveled the world and expecially in the Far East. The Chinese will do anything to get away with any savings. They will agree to things and then do what they want. Given that the problem is with the US companies that are buying the stuff. They are the ones ultimately responsible for the product. They are so happy making excess profits that they dropped the ball. I remember Business Week about a year ago saying that the major shirt companies were moving from Thailand where they were paying $12 a dozen to China at $10 a dozen. Those are the $30 and up shirts. So you can see the motivation. Mattel crying that they did not know what was going on is a shame. People should boycott them and any others that use that as an excuse. As my friend in Shanghai says "I don't know why the Chinese worry about loosing face, they have so many of them".

I agree, it usually takes two to tango. The Mattels, Wal-Marts, etc. are as much to blame as the Chinese. I will avoid these and other large companies offering cheap and shoddy goods. You get what you pay for, and in today's business environment it is definitely "Buyer beware!"

Yep. And whatever happened to "incoming inspection?" Mattel and others are shifting the blame to the Chinese when it is they themselves who are ultimately responsible for the product. The fact that the Chinese will do anything to increase their profit margins isn't news, and it isn't news to Mattel, et al, either. Someone's asleep at the wheel.

The likes of Mattel and Wal-Mart weren't responsible for the anti-freeze in the toothpaste, or the 70-odd chemicals banned in the EU that a Chinese company uses for blister packaging.

Another little horrific scam someones doing in China is putting electric cable on the market that has all the correct labels, UL, CSA, BASEEFA, CE, BS, you name it. The trouble is, while the cable is remarkably cheap, the 'copper' is a crap alloy which means you can't carry the current you thought you could, and the insulation is totally inferior and breaks down very easily, let alone its ability to absorb moisture - now who wants that in their house?

why only china ,every other manufacturers around the globe does the same , whole world is running chinese factories

Good point.

If we have a global economy shouldn't that include global safety standards? With inspection to verify the standards are actually met. Sounds like a job for the U.N.

UN has not helped anything in the last 60 years, and generally goes out of its way to bash the US. NO THANKS.

No thank you for the UN's help.

I've seen how they run, say, oil for food program's... how they avoid anything that requires say, decision making and responsibility...

I'm no fan of Wal-MART, BUT Mattel was really an exemplar company- until this lead business hit.

In my opinion they just weren't prepared for the Katrina size Lead Storm in their supply chain. They presumed (unjustifibaly it seems) that they had a good supply chain and audits and documentation controls would be adequate to enforce.

My favorite Reagan quote: "trust but verify." Would have helped them avoid much of this pain.

When We took our study mission over to China in 2003, I prepared for our members a guide on how they could not make assumptions about processes or process paths/supply chains based on how "we do it" here. As we visited shops, we found out that even my guide was optimistic.

For instance, In US. many machined features are built into a single tool, called a form tool. As that tool is fed into the workpiece, it generates all the features. They all vary the same way, because they are builtinto same tool. and the material is held the same way for all features since it is only "chucked once." So all features would have same Average and std deviation and statistical control.

Shops we visited, every feature was made on a different machine by a different operator. so each feature would have its own average and standard deviation and unfortunately, no evidence of statistical control, because each part was a new setup and "chucking" for each feature.

So incoming acceptance inspection plan would have to be "every feature every part " because you cannot presume all features are in control with others and use one as proxy for all.

We went thru this phase in North America with patent medicines in the late 1800's- early 1900's, we developed standards and systems and regulatory structures.

They are currently thinking that the magic symbol UL, etc. makes it OK, They will learn otherwise, just not soon enough for our tastes. But they will learn, i'm guessing, in less time than it took us.

Until then, it really is caveat emptor. If it is a safety critical item, do you really need the globally lowest price?

It is not a national problem, we had our firestone recall a few years back; What is a problem is how the companies and governments choose to resolve these issues when they come up. Denial and fingerpointing is not a means to solution.

my 2 sense.

milo

Why should a government agency inspect what private business sell. It should be the responsibility of the importers to insure what they are importing meet all consumer regulations on the product. They should be held liable for it. Laws were past against the use of lead paint. So every American Manufacturer has to abide by it. If a product is imported then it should be the importer that insures that it complies with the law. To set a government agency to inspect every product so that a company can use cheap labor overseas we might as well make them here and pay more for them. We will be any way with higher taxes to support the government agency. Put the burden on these importer then we might not loose so may jobs to this cheaper labor.

I agree it is resposiblity of importers to check the quality regulations , but growing environmenatal consequences are factors where government bodies have to step in .

tax structures should be rectified to the value of the product within recycliblity,dumping, toxic contents and hazardness to nature & people out there , this will pressurise importer and make price difference thinner comparable to local manufacturers .

Not a bad argument - a little quality control on the spelling and grammar would make it more effective.

Okay then we stop buying Chinese. What do we do with all those guys unemployed from the restaurants, there's only so many jobs out there for testing venetian blinds?

Rhetorical questions, but hey, When the steel mills let a bunch of us go in 1984, there was no hue and cry for us, despite the foreign dumping into our markets.

When we buy something, the first question in my mind is "is this a want or a need?"

If its a Need, is it a potential safety issue for me and the people I love? if so, Buy Quality, not lowest price.

If its a Want, and I decide to purchase, question is, is it a potential safety issue for me and people I love? if yes, don't buy or else find non lethal substitute.

milo "there's a waiting week before they will pay you your first weeks unemployment benefit. They do this to make sure that you get behind on your bills and so hustle to get a job"

I'm with you Milo.

I know a guy who's the boss of a Canadian Tire store and he's incensed at the Chinese crap he has to sell people and the safety issues that go with it, that's all out of his hands too.

I think this'll probably go a full circle using people power. In the UK consumers are kicking up about call centres overseas, banking, telephone, gas you name it, it's got a foreign accent and they should be domestic jobs, but as we all know it's about maximising profits, or short-termism.

I'm not sorry about those Barbie's, it gave my wife ideas - Ken-not!

"I think this'll probably go a full circle using people power."

Absolutely! When it all gets said and done, it is we the people who own the brand. The idiots in the company offices are merely its keepers, and the way they are abusing the brands with dilution of quality etc. , they won't have them around for long.

milo

Idiots in the company make us feel idiots too

Its not just Chinese. Anyone who can find a way to cheat for a bit more money will do it.

Everyone wants more for less. More pay, less hour. Higher valve, less cost. With selling price keep lower and cost keep increase, something has to give.

Ethic sometime got thrown away when you have to decide between staving your family and cheat to get a contract. You may still end up staving but you got more time before that happen and hope you could do something about it.

I work with lots of machine shops. The one suffering will do anything to survive a bit longer. The one that keep up the good work will close down first. The cost of doing business never stop increasing but selling price keep dropping.

We, the consumer will go for cheap most the time instead of quality. We're the one who drive the market. We're as guilty as other.

I'm not saying its the right thing to do but it does happen. Sometime you get away with it, sometime you get caught.

Pineapple

I bought seven GFCIs to put in. I have a gizmo to trip them. They are used to keep people from getting shocked. Not one of them would trip. They were all from China. I had to take them all out and bought some from another country and they all worked, couldn't find any made in America.

Before that I bought a large box of nails, didn't check where they were from until I noticed the heads were popping of them at a high, high rate. They were from China. Later I bought another box (on a different job) and the same thing happened. Next earthquake out here is going to be interesting because I don't think most people check. The money saved is not worth the time to go back to get decent nails.

I was used to checking tools to make sure they were not from China because they just break or don't work, but I wasn't thinking of nails, electrical outlets, or other usual supplies. Now I check EVERYTHING and I will only buy something made in China if there is absolutely no other option not matter what it is and how long it takes to go to other suppliers. It's still cheaper than doing the work over again.

I started thinking that there is no way you can make so many things that wrong. I started thinking they do it purposely and still feel that way. You can only claim to make a mistake for so long before it is no longer a mistake.

I am hoping this article is a satirical comment. Although, this is an exagerated example of my personal perception of the Chinese government and their way of solving problems, whether they are social, economic, or political.

I sure hope I'm wrong though.

I'm sure we haven't even begun to understand all the environmental problems created by such explosive growth, without any decent Chinese government controls, or import screening and controls. Our buyers snatch up whatever toys, household goods, etc that they can make an extra few cents in selling these items, due to the low labor costs in China, and then they have 100,000s of recalls for lead paint, toxic products, and the like. Just think what the Chinese government could do if they added a few mgs of a highly toxic material into each Chinese Tea Bag..... Meanwhile, we spend $ Billions weekly in Iraq, Afghanistan and North Korea, to name a few sink holes.

I am over the discussion on the Chinese,but you and whoever else are welcome to join the discussion. But what I am puzzled about is your comment about the Sinkhole's in Iraq, Afghanistan, and North Korea. Please explain, Thank You.

There's lead on the roof of this building. Lead flashings.

Hey folks, let's get a grip! First, we can find examples of immoral and unethical behaviour by companies of any nationality or ethnic background. The asbestos companies and tobacco companies are one example. There are other cases of shoddy practices by American beef producers who are allowing e-choli into the food. This type of thing is all over. There's been ethylene glycol in wine from Europe. Floor sweepings and saw dust in hot dogs. It happens that the first world countries are better at catching this kind of thing and have a culture that supports getting the news out - including a free press. But if you think this problem is limited to the Chinese then I have a Nigerian friend who wants your email address.

What Mattel and Wal-Mart should be doing is a lot of final inspection. You have to do this in any case for any product. We've had suppliers change the material in molded gears and found out about it by field failures. You can't trust suppliers without inspections! Or, as Regan put it, "trust, but verify." You have to manage the supply chain properly or build in factors for the risks involved if the supply chain has a flaw.

In Mattel's case this flaw might include going out of business. In the case of the Chinese supplier the penalty was severe. But I think neither of them thought about that at the time.

So shame on the shoddy suppliers for doing things they knew they shouldn't be, but shame on Mattel for not checking. But remember, this can happen in your line of business as well, so what are you doing to proactively make sure that it doesn't?

I agree that the products from China are of very low quality, a lot not worth any price. Part of the reason is US companies want into their market and importing their products gets them into China. As was written earlier, if health is at issue it is not a good deal. This is not new remember the bolts in the seventies, the lead in pots. While they pirate our software, copy our products and dirty the planet our leaders call them trading partners. The whole system is flawed, trade representatives return to the US, explain what a great treaty they have signed. The people we send only want to be able to say they signed a treaty. Other countries must look out for their well being or they will face their leaders when we get home.