Travelling on a wing and a prayer?

Interesting claim - an individual survives 2 hours at 25% sea level air pressure and around -50degC while in a structure doing 900kph.

Interesting.

Add some gloves and an overcoat and you have a cheap way to travel - and lots more leg room than the regular passengers.

it's not the first time a stowaway but it is on the outside. usually, they crawl into the landing gear compartment, and if their not crushed, they sufficate or freeze to death.

There was a picture I believe it was in life magazine about 35 years ago, A picture was taken by a tourist of a plane landing, and it caught a stowaway falling from the wheel compartment.

If true, good thing it was a shorter flight, he was young, and he was probally froze to the wing.

I would like comformation on this before I'm shake my head on what that kid was thinking.

Did you notice the Question, is this possible? The event was dually recorded and made news worthy so how is the possible a problem?.

This is why new ideas are so hard to introduce, the human condition of disbelief coming before a rational acceptance of a fact is a wide spread disease. We humans are a hardy breed we can adapt to many things if given the chance. The mind that sees or experiences an event, then refuses to acknowledge the reality of the event however is one that can be told what to think, and that mind will think just what was told.

No wonder we advance so slow on social thinking?? Or is that just us, other countries have programs that actually take care of people and make their lives better?

I Dun know, but when I see or experience a thing I trust all of my senses because they are good ones.

Have you ever stuck your head out of a car window at 60mph? Try it and then reconsider the question....

The article states that he was "Found clinging to the wheel"

Wind speed, wind chill, low oxygen, etcetera... are all just conditions. What counts is the young mans condition was alive.

Yes I have stuck my head out the window at 65+ miles / hour, got all teary eyed but I am still writing off color opinions.

See:

'The article states that he was "Found clinging to the wheel"'

No it doesn't! It clearly states 'wing' twice, and considering the plane was travelling at 560mph, consider your 'teary' condition multiplied nearly by 10?

Yeh, Yeh, but people have been doing that practically since the Airline industry was formed. I mean there are hundreds of documented cases, why would this one stand out as Un-Believable?

I still think that the word Un-Believable should be stricken from polite conversation. I have witnessed and had people with me witness a series of events, and still had an official paid scientific observer state that the thing was real. And then the dis-belief set in after the occurrence and we all wound up loosing money as the guy re-canted his previous statement of reality.

Ones senses are put there for good reason, refusing to use them seems just not good practice.

Senses can be misleading. My senses told me at a Las Vegas show that magician David Copperfield levitated a woman. Did he? My senses said, "Yes." My mind said, "No. What you just saw, Europium, was simply a slick example of 'sleight-of-hand.'" Mr. Copperfield gets paid million$ for fooling people's senses.

A part of believing what you see is knowing the difference between what is possible and what is not possible for a given situation. Deciding the veracity of something requires one to engage in critical thinking - a practice which lately seems to be falling out of favor. And it depends on one's knowledge of the subject beyond what is merely sensed. If you don't know how to distinguish between what you sense and what makes sense, you're at the mercy of believing whatever comes down the pike - and buying it.

Later Articles said he rode in the wheel well and they found him on the tarmac. A two hour flight they may not have reached too high of an altitude so he would not suffocate. But would get cold frostbite for sure. Said they may need to amputate his finger tips. So possible yeah, Crazy Yup

Go back to the article link, there are 2 follow-up articles that specifically mention the wheel wells.

BTW, they are saying he may lose his hands.

Yes yes yes, but that's not the question!

PlbMak is correct. but when you look at the discussions, all were reserved on an opinion, because of a lack of detail. But the News thorough out a hook and some people took it. hook, line and sinker.

"the human condition of disbelief coming before a rational acceptance of a fact is a wide spread disease"

Would you jump of a cliff to try something no one else did. It's a disease alright, insanity,

It's not that I refuse to acknowledge it, its just what are you thinking. I realize some never intended achievements come from accidents,

And the comment:

"We humans are a hardy breed we can adapt to many things if given the chance. "

Given a chance, heck when you are left with no other options and your desperate then look out.

Don't read into more thats not printed to make a point.

What does dis belief and jumping off a cliff have in common? From what I can see of the world view where we stand that has to be a disease. When something is happening, has happened, will happen again just how does dis-belief enter the picture? People, cats, snakes, have all taken that ride and lived to breath another day. This case is different from the others in just what way?

I Dun know what other people use for their senses and rationalizations stemming from their input? But when all of mine are put to the test they do in fact work.

You have to read whats actually written,

On my post I said

"I would like comformation on this before I'm shake my head on what that kid was thinking."

Confirmation is all I ask, whats wrong with that.

By believing anything that is actually uncomfirmed as to how, why or if, sounds gullible.

I take a stand, on waiting for more information before manufacturing a conclusion.

Did you know that the word "gullible" is not in the dictionary?

I told my mom that once. She said, "Really?"

thats funny, in a cruel and devious way.

Yes, I know.

I'm....Very.....Disapointed....

ROFL!

Hi phoenix911, here in the UK a spurned lover jumped off the Clifton suspension bridge way back in the 60s and lived to tell the tale. The bridge itself is over a river gorge and is 560ft above the river. The river is tidal and when he jumped the tide was out, he just landed on the clay river bed and sunk in as far as his hips. Yes we humans are both crazy and can survive over all odds! Spencer.

Now thats "unbelievable", sorry about that dbdwoods.

good thing it was'nt this bridge, or if it would have been, he would have accomplished it objective.

Would you be scared to drive across this bridge ?. ...

The Millau viaduct is part of the new E11 expressway connecting

Paris and Barcelona and features the highest bridge piers ever

constructed. The tallest is 240 meters (787 feet) high and the

overall height will be an impressive 336 meters (1102 feet), making

this the highest bridge in the world.

Would you have a hard time driving over this bridge?


[Picture removed because it was not showing up - CR4 Admin]

Slide the picture to the right/left ... to see the whole bridge!
What a view! 787 feet high

Hmm, I can't open the pic, but it's the bridge designed by Sir Norman Foster, and yes I have. Driven across it, that is.

And what about the Victorian lady jumper who survived, thanks to her crinoline acting as a parachute - she too was rescued from the mud. I wouldn't have fancied her chances if the tide had been in.

Did you notice the Question, is this possible? The event was dually recorded and made news worthy so how is the possible a problem?.

-----

Absolutely. That's why I believe that the Press is shouldering its responsibility to help to re-establish our correct perceptions of Reality as it Really Is. Like, if it's in print/video/broadcast - you know, dually-recorded - it's gotta be true, non?

Like I believe "Fox news? likely?

Having witnessed a "Sense, Mind, Belief? disconnection my self a time or two I just get rankled when a "Professional" uses the phrase Un-Believable, or Dis Belief.

The greater Un-Washed out there who use their intellect to follow Opra or Britney I would expect to here that phrase coming out of their mouth daily.

My least expectation is that anyone who figures out problems for a living should only use those words when telling lies or drinking.

You see I am small minded and bigoted about thinking and perception, but I think in a good way? I Dun know?

Try telling Neil Armstrong that they really did'nt go to the moon, that it was only hollywood effects.

Everybody has senses, common sense and not so common sense. It's in knowing the difference.

I did tell Neil Armstrong that. All he said was, "Tell that to my producer!"

are your sure that was neil you were talking to, or his stunt double.

It would not be the first time that news out of Russia was shall we say "truth challanged" You believe everything you read on the internet??... I trust my senses as well, and mine are screaming at me that this is outlandishly unlikely...

Seems to me his clothes would have been ripped off by the time the plane reached cruising speed. And that's for starters...

frozen skin...conciousness

and just when I thought the Chinese had come up with a good idea on what to do with their products.

In spite of widespread rumors to that effect, Chinese authorities are not executing recalled Barbie Dolls tainted with lead paint. In reality, China's plan is to use the tainted dolls as shielding for their shipments of breeder-reactor cores to North Korea - officially the Democratic People's Republic of Korea¹.

Reliable sources indicate that Kim Jong-il, current head of state and son of North Korea's first president, Kim II-sung, has promised that if international tensions concerning North Korea's continued development of nuclear weapons don't abate, irradiated Barbies collected following such shipments will be dropped en-masse on N. Korea's enemies. However, Mr. Kim did not elaborate on the proposed means of delivery, but he did rule out widespread use of carrier pigeons. Naturally, Washington remains concerned.

Reality sucks.

(Note 1: Countries with the word "Democratic" in their name usually aren't.)

I here Venezuela has ordered the largest shipment of the tainted Barbies for that very purpose!!! Plus, I hear Chavez has a "Tainted with lead Barbie" fettish to boot.

Barbie was ssooo tainted that when barbie dumped ken, I heard ken's thing fell off.

That is so unbelievable

Yes, Iraq got wind of this also, and has offered to replace Ken's member with a depleted-uranium prosthesis made from spent sabot rounds. Or so I've heard. Lucky for Barbie that she's tainted, ya?

Don't forget Amdinajad/Iran, what do you think the real reason he went to visit a US College.....the "Tainted Coed Barbies"

Hey:

We are officially exporting "Freedom and a relief from a Totalitarian Gov to the greater un-washed masses over their.

Our track record is not Totalitarian in just what way. You are just fine over here if you do not rock the boat in any way. Put a different spin on the general advertised thought pattern and watch out. The Busies will be all over you like Lead Paint on them there China Dolls. I could tell a few stories, butt that would be lying to so many, so I will keep quiet and try to hook into that thought pattern.

Having trouble there though, got two many thinking cells firing off all at once; : - )

dbdwoods, you must be from California? I need to get out there one of these days and drink some of that water yall get or something. Do you have the recipe?

I agree with your premise and want it to be true. But if it weren't for the Democratics in the "freeworld", we would all probably think we were just doing it to get the cheap labor and products. The only problem is, the Democratics that believe we are there are out numbered by the rest of the world and its perception and the other half of the "freeworld" thinkers are trying to combat against the wider and less compromising perception/belief that we are there for less noble pursuits, whether it's true or not.

Interestingly, Mr. Bush's "conquests" of countries are in ascending order of their published oil reserves, with the exception of Afghanistan which has few reserves. In their case, the country stands between the oil-rich Caspian Basin and the Persian Gulf. One of our first projects there after we went in was to build a suitable pipeline.

Now BushCo is demonizing Iran.

Then...Canada?

That's what is great about the ole' red, white & blue. No Co can make the decisions for more than eight years.

P.S. "One of our first projects there after we went in was to build a suitable pipeline."

Nah, that was to divide and conquer the opium industry, you know give the locals jobs. Problem is the Taliban didn't know how to instill the labor contracts. Too busy chopping off heads and such.

P.S.S "Now BushCo is demonizing Iran."

Iran is doing a well enough job of that on their own.

P.S.S "Then...Canada?"

the US has been planning to attack Canada for decades, we just never had a good enough reason, but now with Global Warming and all that oil...it's just a matter of time. It won't matter if the Bush's or the Clinton's are in office, we're going after Canada!!!!! USA, USA, USA!!!!

No one is currently planning to attack Canada. It is, after all, a suburb of New York City.

I thought it was part of the U.P.

Are you kidding? We have a GREAT reason for invading Canada - the newly opened Northwest Passage!

Hi Dude! You crack me up, I particularly like the critical thinking line!

PS. Making Money is excellent, if you've not already read it.

Hey! I'll check it out! Meanwhile, Pigs at the Trough is a good read...

.

I have been there:

There is a Brewery there called the "Stone Brewery" in Southern California that puts some stuff into the water that is just about the best you can find. I understand that over the US "Whole foods" markets has a sample or two of that product line. Should we meet it would be fine to share some of that water.

Democracies are an interesting social experiment we have been participating in, though what passes for real Governance may not be what people are thinking that they are getting. Lately (the last 10 years) just about every member in good standing of those Democracies have crossed the line obliterating freedom many times. So where do we stand.

I along with many hope that we can get some semblance of a real Democracy going again. I am going to put my vote behind someone who has a track record in that direction, not just spout9ing off rhetoric.

I Wish I could do the "Rip Van Wrinkle" thing for a few, but that mite miss all of the excitement that's coming. I Dun know if we can get there, do you?

is a Brewrie here called the "Stone Brewrie"

I am glad to hear they still drink Beer in California. I would really prefer and get to know you better before we met. (help) Just Kidding!

"Wish I could do the "Rip Van Wrinkle" thing for a few, but that mite miss all of the excitement that's coming."

Have you heard something I don't know????

"I Dun know if we can get there, do you?"

In the US we were there, it was called the 1950's.

I had a great rejoinder that seemed to fit. But that is not the way to do it.

I am enjoying the show and wish to be on my own private Island, not going to happen soon.

The 50's up to the 70's had some good moments. The possibility of returning to the expressed level of freedom then is over.

I Dun Know if any of that will be, but the ever present now is changeable?

I have big doubts also. The wind chill factor alone would be his demise. James

I remember seeing a documentary on Discovery about a pilot that got partially sucked out of the cockpit of his airliner when the wrong rivets were used to attach the windscreen. His navigator (instrument man) managed to grab on to his legs while the copilot fought to bring the plane in. The whole ordeal lasted about 30 minutes, from 38000 feet, and they believed the pilot dead but couldn't let him go for fear he'd get sucked in an engine. When they managed to land and removed the body, the medics realized that the pilot was still alive and made a full recovery (6 months).

Also found this

When you bring in events that happen in the military.

You just lit up alot of absolutely (with a lack of a better word ) "some unbelievable events" occuring because the individual(s) had no other option or was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I havn't read all the responses to PlbMak's original question but some of the responses I find totally flabbergasting.

First off the simple answer is no it is not possible.

It may be possible for a human to survive at the normal cruising altitude of a jet airliner for some time but the reduced atmospheric temperature and pressure are going to cause irreparable injuries. First off you have the severe frost bite to the limbs and extremities. If you spent the sort of time we are talking about at this sort of altitude you would more than likely loose all your fingers and toes and most likely your legs and arms. Secondly is the hypoxia and being at 30,000 feet plus without oxygen is definitely going to cause a loss of consciousness followed by brain damage.

Lets now look at the hanging on to the wing part. In a B-737 the only part of the wing that is not visible from within the cabin is about 1 metre near the root. At this point there is nothing that you could hang on to so there is no way you could stay there for the entire flight. You could not hang on to the leading edge either as a B-737 has leading edge slats that are extended for take off and landing. If you tried to hang on the process of the slats retracting would at least be interfered with by you hands and fingers and most likely chop them off. If your fingers weren't chopped off then the pilots would definitely notice that there was something wrong as it would interfere with the operation of the slats. The same is also true for the air brakes, inboard ailerons and trailing edge flaps

Next off lets look at how difficult it would be to hang on due to the wind. First off you need to calculate what is referred to as the air speed. This is the effective speed of the aircraft through the air and is considerably lower than the true airs speed or ground speed. Without going into the complexities of true, indicated and ground speed the actual speed at the normal cruising altitude of a jet is about 130% of the effective air speed. That means that he would need to be able to hang on to the wing for 2 hours with a wind speed roughly equivalent to 615 km Hr^-1. Now when you compare it to the 105 km Hr^-1 (65 mph) it not 6.25 times as hard to do. The relationship is not linear it is square law and that means it is just under 40 times as difficult. I have seen experiments done in wind tunnels and the absolute maximum wind velocity somebody can hold on in is around 120 km Hr^-1. He is also going to loose his grip when he looses consciousness due to hypoxia.

Put this all together and it adds up to it being impossible for somebody to hang onto the wing of a B-737 for a two hour flight. If there is any truth in the story then he was more than likely stowing away in one of the cargo holds, wheel wells or other area that was inside the aircraft and at least offered some protection from the flow of air around the aircraft.

This is not disbelief or denial it is rather looking at what is at best a dubious statement and applying known data and information to show that it does not make sense and that at least some information in the report is erroneous.

At last! Masu, you are the voice of sanity. And an Ozzy!

Thanks for brining this one back into reality!

For those that still belive, let me find some swamp land to sell ya .

Just give me the cash up front and trust me ...

Lets now look at the hanging on to the wing part.

Why?? He wasn't hanging onto the wing, he was in the wheel well, as two of the three articles say. His brain temperature probably lowered enough to protect it from fatal hypoxia. Lowering brain temperature is sometimes used during surgery to prevent brain damage. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if he survives, if they get the gangrene under control. If he does, he's likely to have some of the symptoms of a stroke, etc.

Hey look, the kid deserves a medal. He flew all that way for free on a plane. Completely unheard of in 2007. Give him some applause for giving us hope, the world still is a magical place!

Jules

Well I can't think of a better way to travel <cough>. It would keep the beer can cool <wheeze>.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Meldrew

Hi Guys ... this thread is going along just fine without me!

As I flew back from Parma, I of course got the compulsory 'shrieking toddler' in the seat behind me... I did try to escape out onto the wing for some peace and quite but was prevented from doing so by Mrs Cat.

It sounds like a very good method of getting the Britiah Airmen back to Blighty. I will spook to Michelle of The Resistance about it.