German WW2 Aircraft

Germany produced the first ICBM, the V2, which was the first man-made object to reach space.

Essentially, they made the most significant step towards "The Space Program".

They also had the first functional jet aircraft and initiated work on the Atomic Bomb, if memory serves.

I should also add, war always pushes the envelope of what is technologically possible.

Was it Innovation or German motivation. Gun to some one head by some crack pot is very motivating. Thats all innovations of war are. I like to think that the best innovations were for the betterment of mankind not it's greed and destruction.

I all so question those incredible engineering feats were by Germans and not by pressured citizens under axis control. Just didn't live long enough to tell about it.

yes, slave labor was a major factor in German manufacturing. I have no idea about what influence it had on engineering. I also have no idea what the effect of desperation had upon the development of new concepts and methods. Certainly it had some, perhaps a lot, I just don't know.

Whether the events were inspired by motivational methods or were acts of inspiration there were hundreds of developments and many technological developments. Who knows whether the person who should have gotten credit or not ever got it.

"Gun to some one head by some crack pot is very motivating. Thats all innovations of war are."

That's a generalization and easily disputed. While there is no doubt that the Nazi regime may have driven innovation by threat of pain, a huge amount of innovation was generated by the free world in response. Those engineers and their families were not threatened by their governments. In a way, even free engineers were held under the specter of fear, but their response was fueled by the desire to make a better future than the one the Axis promised.

Even in Germany, many engineers worked for the challenge of innovation, just as we do, because it is in our "blood" to do so.

"I like to think that the best innovations were for the betterment of mankind not it's greed and destruction."

Again, I think that is a little myopic. Your argument eludes that both sides of a conflict are evil. Historically this is not the case. It is true that there are evil men and women in the world and some rise to power to create evil regimes. It is a mistaken view to believe that it is "evil" to stand up against evil. It is quite the contrary. Failure to stand up against evil is simply condoning its existence.

Men and women everywhere are innovating and fighting to make this a better place. Look and you will see all sorts of innovations that were battle derived that have found their place into the civilian world. Much of modern medicine and the emergency treatment we get when things go wrong are spin-offs of military innovation. If you or a loved one ever needs a care-flight to save a life, you probably owe a great debt to the pilot, who in most cases is military trained. These are a few things. There are many, many more.

Unfortunately, humanity is a little apathetic unless faced with extinction. Necessity is the mother of invention.

My intent was not the motivation or the ethics of WWII. But the advancements, the thinking and the engineering brilliance that came about in a time in the world when such huge changes were happening in the development of materials, manufacturing methods, research methods, etc.

These were truly transitional times when the entire world was in transition and a world war put a nuclear fire under the collective bottoms of the world's engineers the advancements in manufacturing ways and means, look at how the US made liberty ships for example. It led to the continuing transition in peace time of the 50's and early 60's manufacturing world, the rebuilding of Europe and Asia and a period of prosperity and growth that I don't think has been matched until just recently.

Right now current technological development is at a frantic pace with new technologies being developed daily but we had a real slowdown period in the 80's and 90's.

For instance, they developed the first cruise missile and put it to use in 1944. It is not anywhere near as accurate as new ones but it was the first as far as I know.

The first weapon of terror. When the drone of the engine was heard to stop, you prayed it didn't land near you. A totally indiscriminate weapon.

You said:- "A totally indiscriminate weapon"

Not quite true, it picked on people living in the UK more than 99% of the time, that is NOT total indiscrimination!!

Sometimes it turned back and bit the hand that had built it!!! But not very often!!

For instance, they developed the first cruise missile and put it to use in 1944. It is not anywhere near as accurate as new ones but it was the first as far as I know.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kettering_Bug (or Google "Kettering Bug" for some evidence that the V1 / V2 were developments of earlier "Cruise Missiles". This was developed during WW I.

well, you've hit me with a new one. I'm pretty well up on US developments in the field. Now I'm going to have to check my records when I get home and see if I've just forgotten or if I didnt know. Getting old is over rated!

(in response to #17 as well) I was born & raised around Dayton Ohio, home of the Wright Brothers; Charles F. Kettering was a local, too. Dayton was an amazing place in terms of number of inventions per capita: the powered airplane, electric self-starter, cash register, the common type of electric ignition system and on & on. Kettering Ohio (a suburb) was named for "Boss Ket"; I was present when he spoke at the ceremony when the village officially became a city in its own right. A nice synopsis of the "Bug" is given here: http://www.uh.edu/engines/epi2044.htm. This is one of a very nice series of short radio stories - well worth a look if you're not familiar with them [unsolicited testimonial].

WOW, very interesting indeed. My knowledge has been boosted again (hardly a day goes by when I cannot say this!!).....

I guess this then predates the V1 as the first cruise missile, but if I understood the Wikipedia entry fully, the Kettering Bug never flew a wartime mission, therefore the V1 holds this position as a first still.....

well, I feel better, I didn't have any records of the Kettering Bug. Interesting idea to measure distance by the revolutions of the crankshaft. Just a little wind front or rear and you could be way off your target. But to think that this was almost 100 years ago.

"a huge amount of innovation was generated by the free world in response."

"Those engineers and their families were not threatened by their governments."

The threat of war that motivates these innovation is just a bigger gun and bigger head.

Only difference I see is you get to shoot back.

"Again, I think that is a little myopic. Your argument eludes that both sides of a conflict are evil.

I do believe we were discussing the merits of Nazi Germany during World War II.

There are plenty of DVDs and even some older VHS cartridges on this subjetc, I have bought them of ebay before...

The ME262 (the photo shown) is being re-built with modern engines for private buyers somewhere in the USA, you can reserve one for 1 Million $$$$ I believe!!

War can sometimes seem to achieve the end result of the cumulative efforts and the inginuity of applied science. In other words WAR IS HELL.

Yes, the German scientists and engineers did a lot to expand scientific knowledge. In chemistry, the use of coal gasification to form syngas, coupled with Fisher-Tropsch reactions to generate coal gasoline and aviation fuels from their own natural resource (coal) for thew war effort was a major breakthrough. That technology has still not been "maxxed out" due to cost considerations for production via the petroleum route.

Wartime economics, especially when the government controls Research funding, can result in breakaway technologies, of which the one listed above is only one example. I have often wondered whether governmental control of some major Research projects wouldnt be a great means to drive forth economies. After all, look at the US Space program and all of it's spin-offs. As you say, however, it is easier to get research funding for wartime efforts.

Even though we like or not, war has always driven technological feats. About the ethics of war, simply remember that if there were some guilty men, for all the evil that war brought, just look at politicians, fanatics and military, not to engineers. During WWII both sides demonstrate innovation and technological skills, and many new concepts, now employed by us, appeared: jet planes, Radar, Sonar, Infrared Technology, Missiles, computers, nuclear energy, cyphering, telecommunications advancements, and the list goes on. Finally, it´s sad to say that there will be more wars in the future, because as someone said : "The crowds never learn", and many countries still don´t have free elections, and in others, people don´t select the right politicians.

Many of the German science developments of WW2 used the simplest solutions, not the most scientifically developed solutions, seeking new alloys, etc. The workings of the V-2 (A-4) are a prime example: Why their propellants tanks were so thinned walled and light, how they pressurized the propellants tanks, how they controlled the flight path and burn time of both the V-1 and V-2, and so on. I worked with the V-2 and a number of rockets and missiles at White Sands in the early 1950's

I was recently re-reading a book by R.V.Jones and he mentions how not only did the US take all documents pertaining to Nuclear fission from Germany and only giving the UK copies much later of what the US considered OK to give (probably not all infos), but that they also took every single finished V2 (around 100) as well without a " by your leave" gesture or query....

It could have caused serious problems between the two countries if Winston C. had not had the good manners and restraint to ignore it!!

I've had many contacts with the Russians since the mid 90's and I've been quite amazed at how their engineering philosophy was just enough technology to get the job done. Kind of the Americans spending so much money to develop a pen to write in space, the Russians used a pencil syndrome.

There are examples of the V1 and V2 at our local air and space museum and they are amazing snapshots in time. Fortunately there are also some very nice examples of British, US and Russian aircraft as well.