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220V 50Hz Vintage Heating Element, Motor and Fan (Vintage Sample Coffee Roaster)

10/28/2018 1:14 PM

Hi All,

I need help on a project transforming current and frequency for vintage equipment and these forums have been a great resource while lurking in the past.

I have a 220V 50hz native vintage electric coffee roaster (sample roaster), with a first compartment housing a coiled heating element laying across ceramic under the main roasting drum, and a second compartment housing a pretty hardcore little steel fan operating below a motor which drives the rotation of the drum; I can't quite tell, but I believe the same motor also drives the fan. The machine looks to have a 220v europlug.

The machine has two on/off switches: 1) power supply, which I believe triggers the motor and fan; and 2) heat.

What is my best bet for transforming the current and frequency appropriately? Is there a cost-effective recommendation for getting to 220v 50hz? Do you think I can get away with transforming from 120v 60hz to 220v 60hz and running the small coffee roaster on that? (It's for my personal enjoyment, not a business). Would I compromise the life of the heating element, or expect different results with the increased airflow of the motor and fan?

Any thoughts or ideas greatly appreciated!

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#1

Re: 220v 50hz vintage Heating Element, Motor and Fan (vintage sample coffee roaster)

10/28/2018 2:51 PM

Probably just need to change the plug....most places have 220v available, but if you want to convert to 120v, then you must choose which way you want to go, either adapting the unit, or converting the voltage....Heaters are a resistance load and frequency doesn't matter....small universal motors are cheap...

Then you need to know proper wattage....2000 watts for $60 at walmart...for voltage conversion...

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#2

Re: 220v 50hz vintage Heating Element, Motor and Fan (vintage sample coffee roaster)

10/28/2018 3:40 PM

You could find a 240/120 volt transformer. Be sure it can handle the current. To avoid powering the heater through the transformer, you might be able to rewire it for 120 volts if it's got an even number of elements wired in series by changing it to two strings in parallel. The heater doesn't care about frequency. The motor will run about 20 percent faster.

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#3

Re: 220V 50Hz Vintage Heating Element, Motor and Fan (Vintage Sample Coffee Roaster)

10/28/2018 11:10 PM

As others have said, a 220/110 transformer will take care of the voltage.

Only the motor will care about 60Hz and, if it is an induction type (most probably), it will want to run a little fast but probably not a problem.

Just obtain a suitable transformer and try it!

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#4

Re: 220V 50Hz Vintage Heating Element, Motor and Fan (Vintage Sample Coffee Roaster)

10/29/2018 7:28 AM

All the replies so far are OT because they are backwards. The OP thinks he wants to convert from 110V to 220V. That might not be necessary at all. If in the US, for instance, he almost surely has 220v already available (such as for clothes dryer, water heater, and stove).

The 60 Hz could be an issue, because the fan will consume 1.728 x normal power. It may be possible to compensate for that by blocking part of the air flow path.

Apart from voltage issues, one must check what is grounded or not in the Europlug configuration versus local standards.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: 220V 50Hz Vintage Heating Element, Motor and Fan (Vintage Sample Coffee Roaster)

10/29/2018 9:39 AM

“...almost surely has 220v already available (such as for clothes dryer, water heater, and stove).”

This is a wildly impractical suggestion.

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#7
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Re: 220V 50Hz Vintage Heating Element, Motor and Fan (Vintage Sample Coffee Roaster)

10/29/2018 11:07 AM

Actually, per the Original Post, the OP does want to convert to 110v or however he can easily run this commercial antique in his home. I'll quote for your benefit:

Do you think I can get away with transforming from 120v 60hz to 220v 60hz and running the small coffee roaster on that?

Sounds like a transformer option was his first thought......doesn't seem backwards at all.

Seems terribly impractical to wire a new 220v outlet in a home setting for an antique roaster. But I do live in the US and do have 220 for my HVAC, for my stove top and for my wall oven, so for more than the cost of rewiring my antique - or adapting it to conventional 110v source via transformer - I could add a new dedicated circuit at home.

Must be an engineer - there is THE RIGHT way and then there are several perfectly acceptable practical ways, and a plethora of questionable & hazardous ways. Your guess is as good as mine as to the OP's choice.

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#6

Re: 220V 50Hz Vintage Heating Element, Motor and Fan (Vintage Sample Coffee Roaster)

10/29/2018 10:09 AM

Yes,you can get away with that,either by using a transformer,or by installing a 220 volt outlet from your existing service.Frequency is not critical in this case,the motor will run a little faster,but no effect on the heater.

Determine which case is cheaper;Probably the transformer unless you can add the outlet yourself,which I do not recommend unless you have experience as an electrician because there are very dangerous voltages and currents available in the breaker panel.

(Of course,logically,you will have to change the power plug.)

It make take a little longer for the desired roast level because of the increased airflow and drum speed but that is easy to remedy.

The new speed can be calculated if you know the current speed of the motor,if it is a synchronous motor.

The formula is RPM= frequency X 120, divided by number of poles.This would be about 20% faster.

This is the speed of the rotating magnetic field,the rotor speed will be a little less.

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#8

Re: 220V 50Hz Vintage Heating Element, Motor and Fan (Vintage Sample Coffee Roaster)

10/29/2018 11:38 AM

Be very careful if you decide to go with a 240 volt source (that is common in NA homes) as many older 220 Volt European appliances may have one end of its internal circuiting bonded to the case, which would be very dangerous.

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#9

Re: 220V 50Hz Vintage Heating Element, Motor and Fan (Vintage Sample Coffee Roaster)

10/29/2018 11:39 AM

Tornado is correct, the bigger issue is the frequency, not the voltage. On a coffee roaster, turning the drum 20% faster than the system is designed for will result in a different roasting profile. It may be OK (probably less dark), but not what it was designed to do. In addition since the vast majority of fans are centrifugal loads, the fan will require 178% more power at the new speed and overload that motor. This is due to a mechanical issue called the Affinity Law of motor speed. Such are the problems of importing equipment to North America from areas that use 50Hz...

If the motor connections to the devices is by belt drive, you could play with the sheave sizes to return the loads to the proper design speed to solve these problems, then just deal with the voltage is whatever appropriate way is practical for you; transformer from a 120V source or just running a 240V line from your panel (because again, Tornado is correct that if you have 120V, you have 240V available in 99.999999% of single phase services in North America).

The other alternative on the frequency conversion is an electronic device that changes the frequency. But most of those do not like single phase motors that use capacitors for starting, which is most of them on equipment like a coffee roaster. Plus they are very expensive and before going that route, I would investigate doing it as I mention below.

One final option is to remove the motor(s) and replace with 3 phase versions, then get a device called a VFD (Bariable Frequency Drive) so that you can modulate the motor speed at will. Most modern coffee roasters now incorporate this because one machine can be used to produce different flavor profiles by controlling the drum speed and heat together. This is not cheap, but is likely a better option than just buying a single frequency converter that may or may not survive being used on motors.

Oh and by the way, the resistance heating elements only care about voltage not frequency. No issues there.

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: 220V 50Hz Vintage Heating Element, Motor and Fan (Vintage Sample Coffee Roaster)

10/30/2018 9:43 PM

The affinity laws will not likely be a big part of the total load on the motor, perhaps the most of the motor torque will be turning the drum, the fan is likely to keep the air moving across the coils, so perhaps a gentle breeze.

A small motor such as I suspect this one is, is likely designed with enough iron & copper so that the effect of the frequency change will have minimal impact on the equipment. A larger motor designed to tighter tolerances might have a problem, but a table top machine, already designed with a large amount of slip, will likely run well within the thermal limits of the machine. The voltage would be good to keep moe closely matched at nameplate 220V

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: 220V 50Hz Vintage Heating Element, Motor and Fan (Vintage Sample Coffee Roaster)

10/31/2018 9:54 AM

I agree.The small motors such as are probably used in this application are shaded pole motors,which are inherently self current limiting.

Look at the motor. Do the laminations of the stator have a relatively heavy band of copper going around them? If so,the motor is a shaded pole motor and it will not overheat regardless of load.

(Side note:If you want to see a shaded pole motor destroyed by centrifugal force,cut the copper band and stand back as you apply the power.)

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