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How to Design a Motor with a Set of Given Requirements?

11/10/2018 10:01 AM

Let's suppose we are given a set of requirements and we are to design a motor that meets them. Requirements are: 3 phase synchronous, 480v, 50Hz and of hysteresis type and alnico is the only available option and it should deliver a 0.6N.m output torque.

Dimensions should not exceed 150 mm and air gap should not be smaller that 0.5 mm.

Where to start the design? What should be the initial values to start with and are there any references that can give these typical values that later on will be tuned during the design steps? Is there any reference that offers a procedure for design of special motors like the one in question?

If there are good books and references that you know of please let me know.

Cordialy,

Omid Feyz Najafian

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#1

Re: How to design a motor with a set of given requirements?

11/10/2018 11:01 AM

Were I tasked with a set of motor parameters, my first effort would be to source, rather than design. Do you need thousands of these and no manufacturer on the planet makes one close enough?

This 0.6Nm, is this an upper or lower limit, or an absolute?

Dimensions should not exceed 150mm. Any single dimension, all dimensions added together... ???

Offhand this sounds like the solution is a transformer and a washing machine motor. Will your instructor accept such an answer?

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: How to design a motor with a set of given requirements?

11/10/2018 11:22 AM

Dear Doorman,

Thank you for pointing that out, however this is not a matter of finding a motor that can deliver those requirements rather designing one, and that value would be the full load torque at the synchronous speed which in the case of hysteresis motors would be constant with respect to slip.

sincerely,

Omid Feyz Najafian

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#4
In reply to #1

Re: How to design a motor with a set of given requirements?

11/10/2018 2:12 PM

Dear Doorman,

Thank you for the time you giving to this topic.

An electric motor is almost always cylinder-shaped so you should consider a cylinder that can completely fit inside of a cube, of which the dimensions don't exceed 150 mm, in other words, the diameter and height of this cylinder,each should be less than 150 mm.

And as to what this motor will be used for, the application as far as this particular motor is concerned is irrelevant to the design since the is no mention of any harsh environments or any thing of that matter.

What I'm trying to find out is where to start the design, what initial value should be picked for flux density or number or other parameters like these, and what references or handbooks you know of that can help with this.

best regards,

Omid Feyz Najafian

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#3

Re: How to design a motor with a set of given requirements?

11/10/2018 1:03 PM

If the supply system is a three phase system then a rotating magnetic field will be created in the air gap. The rotor will behave as an induction motor with solid steel rotor. Keep searching in the web for this.

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: How to design a motor with a set of given requirements?

11/10/2018 2:15 PM

Dear friend,

Thank you for your response.

sincerely,

Omid Feyz Najafian

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#6

Re: How to design a motor with a set of given requirements?

11/10/2018 2:27 PM

I'd start designing a motor by going to a university and studying electrical design engineering.

Is this you?⇓

Omid Feyz Najafian Khaje Nasir Toosi University of Technology | KNTU · Faculty of Electrical and Computer Engineering Contact About Research 2 About Introduction Skills and Expertise Electrical Power EngineeringPower Systems Analysis Research Research Items (2) Simulation of a hysteresis motor with ANSYS MAXWELL? Question

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Hello, I'm trying to simulate a 3 phase hysteresis motor with 4 poles, 36 slots, 220 input voltage peak for each phase, 50Hz, specified dimensions and 0.6 N.m output torque in maxwell transient. The… Answer Recommend

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: How to design a motor with a set of given requirements?

11/10/2018 2:43 PM

Dear lyn

Yes, that is me, and I'm studying electric motor design in a university.

Cordially,

Omid Feyz Najafian

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#8

Re: How to design a motor with a set of given requirements?

11/10/2018 4:56 PM

Do the professors at this university actually teach anything?

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#9
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Re: How to design a motor with a set of given requirements?

11/10/2018 5:16 PM

Maybe the question should be, do the students at this university actually try to learn anything the professors are teaching?

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#10
In reply to #8

Re: How to design a motor with a set of given requirements?

11/10/2018 5:27 PM

Dear Sir,

Your question is irrelevant to the topic, the researches that I have been conducting as a student over that the past few weeks do not in any way, shape or form represent the quality of either the university or its professors.

Thank you for not wasting others time with such senseless judgmental questions.

best regards,

Omid Feyz Najafian

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#11

Re: How to design a motor with a set of given requirements?

11/10/2018 6:25 PM

For people who are interested in this topic as I am, one gentleman offered this:

ELECTROMAGNETIC DESIGN OF A SOLID STEEL ROTOR MOTOR FOR DEMANDING OPERATION ENVIRONMENTS
by by Tuomo Aho
[Thesis for the degree of Doctor of Science (Technology)]
LAPPEENRANTA UNIVERSITY OF TECHNOLOGY Finland
December 2007

I googled it and found a downloadable link for it as well you can reach below:

https://vdocuments.mx/dissertation-final-281107-doria-aho-electromagnetic-design-of-a-solid-steel-rotor.html

Please contribute if you know of good handbooks and references for designing electric motors.Thank you and good luck.

sincerely,

Omid Feyz Najafian

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#12

Re: How to Design a Motor with a Set of Given Requirements?

11/12/2018 11:58 AM

In order to carry out any motor design or motor selection activity, the output shaft speed needs to become known. That detail has been withheld from the forum.

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#13
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Re: How to Design a Motor with a Set of Given Requirements?

11/12/2018 2:42 PM

Dear PWslck,

Thank you for you attention, the synchronous speed of any electric machine in general is inversely proportional to the number of poles and directly to frequency.

ns(rpm) = 120*f/p

so for this particular motor the shaft speed is 1500rpm, and since it's of synchronous type the working speed is also 1500rpm.

cordially,

Omid Feyz Najafian

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#14
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Re: How to Design a Motor with a Set of Given Requirements?

11/13/2018 1:46 AM

When did you ever say (before now) that it is 4 poles?

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#17
In reply to #14

Re: How to Design a Motor with a Set of Given Requirements?

11/13/2018 6:26 AM

Quite.

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#16
In reply to #13

Re: How to Design a Motor with a Set of Given Requirements?

11/13/2018 6:23 AM

157 radians per second multiplied by 0.6 Newton-metres gives an output shaft power of....<tap, tap, tap, press equals>...94W, or about the same capability of a domestic hair dryer fan motor. It isn't a 3-phase application, and fitting it into the volume indicated looks straightforward.

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#15

Re: How to Design a Motor with a Set of Given Requirements?

11/13/2018 4:44 AM

I'm so sorry, I must have forgotten to point that out; it seems that I have not made myself clear about what the problem is here. I don't need you to design such a machine for me so suppose any number of poles you like because that's not the question at all.

I'm gathering information about how to design a PMSM just like the one I described above. I was more hoping that you could introduce a couple of good references or handbooks or manuals like this one:

Permanent Magnet Motor Technology: Design And Application

that are written in a more systematic and practical way than usual references out there in which the information presented is either outdated or confusingly scattered. So that is and has been the question all along: how to design a motor with A set of given requirements, not these specific requirements.

It's really hard to find a good book just by searching the internet; there are a million resources out there. So again if you know of any good books, references, handbooks, manuals, or even handwritten notes which you use personally, that's what I'm asking for.

Cordially,

Omid Feyz Najafian

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#18
In reply to #15

Re: How to Design a Motor with a Set of Given Requirements?

11/14/2018 6:44 AM

Would this help... Just two of those found when I just searched internet for "design hysteresis motor". Fortunately the words due not attract clouds of Amazon sales offers to push any useful finds to bottom of list....

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/22e6/c2d3712c846245c5de2f5ead0f08fcec36fc.pdf

J. Rizk, A. Hellany and M. Nagrial

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/261488081_Sensitivity_analysis_to_the_design_parameters_of_a_hysteresis_motor

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67model (1); 7anoter4 (1); Doorman (1); lyn (2); omidfn (8); PWSlack (3); Tornado (2)

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