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Anti Stick Teflon?

01/06/2019 12:02 PM

I am looking for some sort of a clear anti stick umm liquid?

I have some rubber balls, that are precision ground smooth but not shiny, like a MATT surface. They are not "Sticky" But they tend to "Lock" together. They are in a track, and they need to Roll, but to start to roll, the surfaces need to slide ever so slightly.

So thinking of some sort of an anti stick substance I could apply to them?

Anyone?

Joe

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#1

Re: Anti Stick, Teflon?

01/06/2019 1:46 PM
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#4
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Re: Anti Stick, Teflon?

01/06/2019 7:13 PM

This one seems like it would be sticky.

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#2

Re: Anti Stick, Teflon?

01/06/2019 1:49 PM

I had a similar trouble with wooden balls, used paste wax (car wax) with success.

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#5
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Re: Anti Stick, Teflon?

01/06/2019 7:14 PM

I tried furniture polish, still want to stay together.

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#18
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Re: Anti Stick, Teflon?

01/07/2019 9:42 AM

I tried like Pledge Furniture polish, Made the balls pretty, but only slightly better. I did try "Car Wax" same results. Plus how did you wipe off the haze. tough on the semi textured rubber. I yesterday was able to obtain the special wax used in car washes where it is sprayed on and turns all shiny with no buffing. But it also really hasnt helped.

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#34
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Re: Anti Stick, Teflon?

01/08/2019 1:54 PM

Per #2, I used wood balls, so no trouble polishing them.

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#3

Re: Anti Stick, Teflon?

01/06/2019 2:14 PM
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#7
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Re: Anti Stick, Teflon?

01/06/2019 7:21 PM

E-Mailed, this looks promising!

Thanks!

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#8
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Re: Anti Stick, Teflon?

01/06/2019 7:30 PM

Not knowing your application exactly, but you can locally find "3-in-1" dry-lube for keys & door locks at your local hardware stores.

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#9
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Re: Anti Stick, Teflon?

01/06/2019 7:53 PM

I looked but did not seem to find anything obvious.

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#6

Re: Anti Stick, Teflon?

01/06/2019 7:16 PM

Available at many places including Lowes# 236635, $4.98.

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#10

Re: Anti Stick, Teflon?

01/06/2019 11:22 PM

Talcum powder? Or a strategic puff(s) of compressed air?

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#11

Re: Anti Stick, Teflon?

01/06/2019 11:32 PM

Have you considered that the balls may have picked up a static charge that is attracting them to each other, or the track?

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#12
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Re: Anti Stick, Teflon?

01/07/2019 1:21 AM

This is the material,

Nitrile, Buna N

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#13
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Re: Anti Stick, Teflon?

01/07/2019 5:24 AM

That is not an answer to the question.

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#17
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Re: Anti Stick, Teflon?

01/07/2019 9:38 AM

If the question is static buildup? I really do not know. Or how I could test for it either.

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#14

Re: Anti Stick, Teflon?

01/07/2019 7:19 AM

If the track has a slope then back of the first ball will be coming up whilst the front of the following ball will be coming down, increasing the slope may make matters worse.

I suggest a horizontal track and using air to blow them along.

Tony

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#15

Re: Anti Stick, Teflon?

01/07/2019 8:12 AM

Is it only a "sticky surface" that needs to be addressed? Is there a "compression" component to the roll restriction? Would a mechanical action such as a bump, vibration or slight deformation of the track encourage the movement? Is it just the initial start-up of the rolling along the track or does the problem continue or re-establish a sticking point at another point in the track path again further down the line? Will an added liquid or solid powder cause other issues within the system or operating environment (i.e. gumming up other mechanicals, worker breathing health/safety)?

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#19
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Re: Anti Stick, Teflon?

01/07/2019 10:00 AM

I guess more info is needed here. The issue is with my families clock my father made back in 1975. I as a hobby re-started making them again in 2007. The ONLY complaint we have ever gotten about the clock is how LOUD they are. After all they have 5/8" steel ball bearings rolling on natural hardwoods.

But I found a precision rubber ball company that makes these awesome balls. That are yes not as pretty as the chrome balls. BUT... They make the clock almost totally silent. Here is a old video that shows how loud they are right now.

https://youtu.be/_lkETpEQJRY

The Plain rubber balls look like this,

Somewhat dull, and almost refuse to roll at all, Now with some wax applied,

The look nicer, and roll a LOT better, but not reliably all the time, sometimes when the teeter totter tilts as TYME goes by one or two of the balls do not move and remain in their position causing the time to be off.

So the need to un stick them.

Joe

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#20
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Re: Anti Stick, Teflon?

01/07/2019 10:53 AM

I suspect the lighter mass of these rubber balls is the real root of your problem. To properly solve this a redesign of the kinematics (pivot points, track mass, tilt range, etc.) may be needed.

If stiction is the last straw in this cascade of balances then I think a hard sealer (acrylic, varnish, polyurethane?) on the wooden tracks may resolve this problem. I would approach this through testing of a longer test track with different sealers on different sections. Place one ball on each cured section and tilt the track until a ball rolls. Repeat the test a few times using different balls to assure valid data. The sealer under that ball is the one you want.

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#25
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Re: Anti Stick, Teflon?

01/07/2019 5:07 PM

Thwe lighter mass was a major issue, the balls are six times lighter than the steel ones. But once the balances were made. it works as far as the operation goes balance wise no problems at all. just sometimes all the balls don't leave.

I don't think it's the sealer,, unless there is a chemical issue happening.

but so far you cant tell where the balls are rolling or resting in the finish yet.

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#28
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Re: Anti Stick, Teflon?

01/07/2019 5:36 PM

Not sure if this would help you or not, but I seem to recall that old computer mice had these 'weighted' rubber balls. Maybe they could give you the mass you need to help operation if they were of a good size. Of course, there is still the sticking issues.

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#22
In reply to #19

Re: Anti Stick, Teflon?

01/07/2019 1:53 PM

I would take a look at pvc plastic balls...

https://www.plasticballs.com/index.html

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#23
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Re: Anti Stick, Teflon?

01/07/2019 3:08 PM

When a rack of balls fails to fully clear a rack does the first ball fail to roll or does the rack tip back up before the first ball leaves?

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#26
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Re: Anti Stick, Teflon?

01/07/2019 5:24 PM

Please re word this again, I'm not sure what you are asking. sorry.

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#31
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Re: Anti Stick, Teflon?

01/07/2019 9:11 PM

OK, I'll focus on the top, single minute track of zero to four balls in my explanation. If when ball #5 rolls onto this track causes the track to tip and ball #1 does not even start to roll down during a fault tipped condition then stiction will be your root cause. Changing your contact surfaces as I mentioned in my earlier reply can solve this problem.

What I actually think is happening is ball #1 starts to roll to the exit chute but before it leaves the track the track trips back and the #1 ball rolls back to the #1 spot on the track. When this failure happens I suspect the #1 ball only rolls to the #2 spot as the #2 ball drops OFF the track with the "hidden" #5 ball causing the track to rock back into storing position. This will be a mass related problem that no amount of lubrication or surface conditioning will help.

I think you'll find that the wood colored counterweight glued(?) to the #0 position weighs less than any of the original but loud metal balls but it weighs more than any of the rubber balls. Changing this fixed counterweight mass might solve this mass problem.

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#32
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Re: Anti Stick, Teflon?

01/07/2019 11:12 PM

But I don't have a mass problem. I have a problem when the teeter totter tilts, sometimes the #1 never leaves, or falls behind and doesn't keep up with 2 thru 4 leaving, and once 2 thu 4 are gone 1 is still left of the axle and it tilts back.

Sometimes it is both #1 and #2 that do not leave fast enough.

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#16

Re: Anti Stick, Teflon?

01/07/2019 8:13 AM

Oil?

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#21

Re: Anti Stick, Teflon?

01/07/2019 11:22 AM

This was my first thought. I have used it on plastic parts in the past with good results.

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#24

Re: Anti Stick Teflon?

01/07/2019 4:26 PM

I picked up one of the plastic 1970s versions a couple years ago. I think the weight of the balls is key to operation. It's fiddly enough as it is.

I second the spray silicone.

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#27
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Re: Anti Stick Teflon?

01/07/2019 5:27 PM

Yeah the cheap plastic is a License on our patent. They could not make it any cheaper if they tried to.

I'm the son of the inventor of these thing I have been making them since 1975, soo fully aware on the balances and such. The funnest one to make was the one that used Bowling balls!

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#29
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Re: Anti Stick Teflon?

01/07/2019 7:12 PM

I used to go to a place called McDade's Catalogue House and watch these clocks minute after minute. I'm sure it added up to hours.

They had all manner of desktop daydream devices. The oil filled rocking wave was cool too.

I'm glad you're picking up this project again. It is a mini marvel of engineering and I'm sure it was partially responsible for my interest in engineering.

Let us know if you have any success with the quieter version... I was thinking the noises are half the fun , but then I realized that I set up the clock in places where it won't be a bother. Basement.. and now the garage.

Bowling balls? That would be fun to build or watch. Cheers to your dad. A legend in time.

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#30
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Re: Anti Stick Teflon?

01/07/2019 7:43 PM

Bowling Ball Clock

https://youtu.be/zaim0a0_PpU

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#33

Re: Anti Stick Teflon?

01/08/2019 11:15 AM

An Up-Date

I got a can of the Blaster Dry Lube with Teflon, And applied some to the balls and tracks last night.

It will take some experimenting to see how much is needed. I got it kind of heavy in a few places and it left a thick white chalky residue. Will see if thinner layers also work.

BUT.... For the first time the clock ran through the night and had the correct time this morning!

So far so good.

Joe

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