California's Renewable Energy Problem

My idea of a world wide solar grid makes more sense in light of this report.

To include floating islands of PV arrays on the oceans?

For instance, you would need PV arrays in the Pacific between Hawaii and California to supply the west coast's evening power needs. Or massive batteries ($$$) like mentioned in the video.

The cost of subsea HVDC transmission lines would be astronomical. The first thing to do would be to at least establish a network of land-based HVDC transmission lines akin to the Interstate Highway System to see if it is even practical to attempt load balancing the grid. Even that would probably be prohibitively expensive versus local generation of power with existing resources.

Ahem, er, solar power is an <...existing resource...> as well.

The trick is to overcome the change of <...existing resources...> before they become spent, past <...resources...>.

<...prohibitively expensive...> It is always possible to find reasons for not doing things. The trick is to find a way of doing things that obviates the <...prohibitive...>. "Business as usual" is simply not sustainable beyond the end of <...existing resources...>, as they are short-lived in comparison with solar power.

Yes the sun is an existing resource, but it doesn't always produce power when and where we want it.

I have asked my university to make a study of doing it. No reply. Undersea transmission lines would be required. There's lots of undersea lines now. From UK to Denmark, for instance. Floating PV islands would not be required. There's plenty of land. And, remember, there's always sunshine somewhere. I believe it will come to pass. Just imagine what impact it will have on the world! (It would be a good time to be in the solar panel business.)

A good start would be to get enough solar panels across the US so that one side can help the other side due to darkness coming four hours earlier on one side of the country. Then, build a big one in Hawaii to continue to balance the grid to keep from having to require so much storage. This could start island hopping connections around the world. Then, the grid can be balanced all the time. No storage required.

@Papadoc. You are correct about doing it on an "international" scale. We have undersea phone cables, why not undersea power cables?

However why use solar arrays on the Earths surface, there are large losses caused by penetrating the atmosphere. So! We put multiples of three satellites in geostationary orbit, with huge solarcell arrays attached. As one satellite will always be in contact with the sun, we then have 24/7 power availability.

Then we pipe this power down 10 Klm or larger microwave tunnels, to collectors on the ground. These collectors would be in very dry places, like the Gobi, Mohave, and Sturt's Stony, deserts, etc.

The only problem I foresee, (other than cost and co-operation, is birds) they will rest on the collectors at night because they feel warm, and of course - crap on them. Therefore it will be necessary to put a small charge through the collectors. (Enough to give the birds a "hot foot") Then, hopefully, they will stay away.

How do you like my idea?....Marum.(Die solarzellenbetrieben Katze)

Sounds good, Ralph. However, that microwave beam will never be allowed. Or at least, I hope it's never allowed. It's akin to the 50000 year half life of nuclear spent rods. How that potential catastrophe ever came to pass is beyond me.

We have a lot of photons from the sun we can use. The expense is building the solar panels. But, it's doable.

I listened to the presentation and appreciated his looking at different scenario's. However, his presentation completely ignored the area of reducing peak demand by intelligent load shedding (an approach which is increasingly becoming main-stream).

With smart meters and similar technology, individual homeowner loads can be shed for varying periods of time, which would significantly reduce the demand requirements after the time the sun has set and solar is "off-line".

Another topic not considered is reducing demand and load by moving toward more energy efficiency. We should be able to cut per-capita consumption by 30-50% or more. This will require many changes in home design, and the built-up infrastructure we have, which in reality will take a minimum of 25-40 years to put in place.

The suggestions from many regarding long-distance transmission lines to share power from one geographic region to another are very good, but have a couple problems. First is getting access rights for building the lines, and second is avoiding grid instability from one region causing large-area blackouts. The second one is actually fairly easy to fix--HVDC transmission as many have suggested. DC transmission eliminates the problem of remaining in lockstep to a frequency and also the perceived problem of EMF effects on life forms.

The suggested microwave transmission of power from space is extremely dangerous because of its harmful effects as an ionizing radiation, so it should be placed on the trash heap.

Often times, setting a goal that appears unreachable and budgeting sufficient resources to work towards it will result in our finding approaches, technology, etc. that are currently unrecognized. These approaches can make the goal realistic and possible.

--JMM

The evening peak is a tough nut to crack. Most of the load in the early evening is cooking appliances. Folks won't be too happy to be "peak cycling" their stoves and ovens.

They could replace those electric stove tops with gas...

Getting rid of that nasty methane at the same time...

True, but the utility can cycle their A/C off for 5-10 minutes at a time (most units have a lockout timer of 5-minutes so this is OK). The problem is not just shaving the peak, which is important, but also reducing the total load (because it is during a time when direct solar is not available.

In many areas, another option for energy storage is pumped storage using a reservoir near a hill top and another one much lower. A good example of one is with TVA at Raccoon Mountain, with about 1600 kW capacity. In California there are 8 existing facilities with a total generation capacity of about 4500 kW, and at least 6 more have been proposed or are being studied. At least one of the existing facilities is over 30 years old.

Don't forget Niagara Falls. The company my father worked for helped design that project back in the late 50's, early 60's.

BSR,

I have been there, first in the mid-late '50's. However I don't recall it being a pumped storage facility although it is a hydro project.

--JMM

Those kW figures are piddling. There are much larger examples, such as the one in southern China with about 900 feet of elevation difference between the reservoirs. That one is even a tourist attraction, complete with a hotel named Pumped Storage Hotel.

Some long distance DC transmission lines are already in use and more are being built. The less times of converting from DC to AC and vice versa saves a lot of energy.

https://insights.globalspec.com/article/12001/abb-books-order-for-800-kv-transmission-line?frmtrk=cr4digest&cid=nl&et_rid=420847911&et_mid=83885226