Oil to Use in FPS Water Well Pump "Motor" ?

Here is a link to the motor :

https://m.grainger.com/mobile/product/1CXE9?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI39CL5-b14wIVjMhkCh25Qge-EAQYAiABEgKSDvD_BwE&cm_mmc=PPC:+Google+PLA&ef_id=EAIaIQobChMI39CL5-b14wIVjMhkCh25Qge-EAQYAiABEgKSDvD_BwE:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!2966!3!320184913653!!!g!540105217378!

Highly overpriced, but easily available info.

Almost sounds like brake fluid....

What - on <...FPS water...>?

It leaves almost no residue even on the rotor on the enclosed end of the shaft. What it did leave behind was a very little bit of whitish gray film on only a small section of the rotor. This may have been like wear particles though, IDK.

The lubricant that leaked out all over the floor was very low viscosity, but it's also 10 years old.

Is the lubricant included in the rebuild kit? If so, I don't see the problem...It's probably proprietary information... You could have it chemically analysed, but that would probably just tell you the ingredients, not the proportional mix of them....and then you would probably have to order another rebuild kit haha...that's how they get ya!

No it's not included, I know they "Franklin" don't make it, but it still may be proprietary. They will not sell it to me, maybe to some IDK, but not me.

The rebuild parts I'm getting is for the pump only, no motor parts. The rebuild consists of the multi piece impeller. It's a stack of 8 impellers and maybe if needed a ceramic shaft sleeve, lets hope not.

If I had not spilled the what little that appeared to be on it I would have sent it off for analysis.

The motor is like $2000-$2300 or so, I'm not excited to scrap a motor thats still good and probably has 10 more years. Or gamble on a lubricant, it's just not worth it, the amount of time and sweat it takes to setup and pull 33, 21' pipes out of the ground is a pain, lol. Thanks for commenting, I appreciate the brake fluid idea. I feel like it may be mineral oil?

Could be...

https://www.multitherm.com/multitherm-pg-1.html

I have been advised to look into "dieelectric mineral oil". From the sounds of it, I think that is what it is.

You might want to check Silicone Dielectric Greases and Insulating Fluids | Engineering360

Dielectric Fluids

If it was indeed a mineral oil dielectric fluid (which I doubt, as JRaef mentions in his next post about no MSDS or oily residue), it would NOT be good to replace it with a silicone dielectric fluid. Speaking from experience, mixing silicone and mineral oil dielectrics causes a bad interaction. Never mix different based dielectrics! It's something in the transformer service world that we have to be careful to keep separate pumping equipment, hoses, fittings, etc. for silicone vs. mineral oil fluids.

Being that this is a potable water pump, the internal fluid might be purified water, not oil, which would explain the lack of oily residue. Nothing in Franklin's literature states what it is, but there is also a conspicuous lack of an MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) that would be required if they were using any type of oil. By using water, they avoid the need for an MSDS and they avoid certification of the lubricant as "food grade", thus avoiding the need to tell you what it is.

They DO say that the bearings are permanently lubricated and the windings are sealed in a non-toxic resin. So the "fluid" is really only there as a heat transfer medium, and purified water is non-conductive, so that would make sense.

The thrust bearing could be outside the motor winding space, lubricated by the fluid you are pumping....

Some of the submersible motors I have seen, actually use distilled water in the motor which is filled through a port and the newer ones actually allow the water to flow through the motors so maybe it was just plain old water.

Seems strange I know, to put water into motors, but they say the encapsulation is waterproof so that could be the liquid.

Here is a link that will help.Last paragraph is most pertinent.

http://bedfordpumps.com/potable-water

Hey everybody, thanks for the help!

Well it is water, half water half glycol mixture.

I have found a supplier, but they're in India, lol. I doubt they would want to sell a gallon, but IDK, I haven't been able to get in contact with them.

Their website is- www.advancepetro.com

What the coolant does is lubricate the rubber goods, steel (non stainless) goods, and probably helps cool the motor. I think It's also to keep it from freezing up. You figure this thing is 650'+ in the ground, in central Arizona, which still in the winter the temp could get down to freezing there at that depth. Further north this pump may be 1000' down and it snows. Not certain, someone else on here I'm sure would know the seasonal effects of deep water wells.

Thank you everybody for the help, if anybody knows where to get some submersable well pump coolant please let me know.

https://www.amazon.com/Propylene-Glycol-Food-Grade-Quart/dp/B005PZBRUC

Total $14....

SolarEagle- Thank you much, this is what's needed. Will be doing this if things go the way I hope I can get them to go. The seller I would expect should know the ratio. Sure is cheap enough, these places that sell it are probably well over doubling their money.

This is exactly what Amana used in their hydro heat system that circulated it through an A coil,and had a coil inside the hot water tank to provide hot water for the home.

This provided lubrication for the pump as well as being a good heat transfer medium.If the coil in the tank ever leaked into the potable water,it was non toxic.

It was a very efficient system,but they had a few bugs in their control strategy.

Propylene Glycol is regarded as generally safe for human consumption by FDA,and is used in flavorings,etc.

JRAEF- Yes, your correct on the sealed bearing and windings. The windings are not exposed, it has like a hollow shaft that the coolant flows through.

NITZ- Mensions parts, the assembly that I have been calling a stabilizer I think is actually a Thrust Bearing. There is also a rubber diaphragm on the end cap that is also being lubricated along with the seal "probably I haven't ripped apart that end" at the end with sealed bearing and splined shaft that couples with the pump.

HITEKREDNEK- Bedford Pumps specs a coolant they call Royal Purple "BBF 302", I will look into it. I am hoping I can find a coolant supplier in the US.

The other problem I'm having is finding is parts. From what I see Franklin is not listing individual parts or a kit to rebuild the pump. I am waiting to hear back from them, but they seem to only want to deal in pumps, motors, and not parts? I may have to just buy the pump if it's worth while hoi g that route vs the pump/motor package. I really wanted to rebuild the pump.

Thank you again everybody, progress is being made.

You might be able to find a suitable seal by specifying type and dimensions.

Here is a link to one such provider:

http://vulcanseals.com/water-pump-seals/

Here is a link to Franklin repair parts:

https://franklinwater.com/media/210940/m2172_pump_replacement_parts_catalog.pdf

<...waiting to hear back from them...>

Isn't the telephone the best tool to use, i.e. no waiting?

Your pump from Franklin uses water lubricated bearings

it does not have to worry about freezing at a depth of 650 ft

if this pump has a sealed bearing section (where an oil can be installed and sealed from the impeller section pumping water), a NSF H1 rated fluid is needed.

Royal purple Barrier Fluid FDA 22 is a special synthetic hydrocarbon fluid that is used to lubricant mechanical seals on larger pumps. It sometimes is used for bearings but has no performance additives to prolong bearing life. An alternative would be a mineral white technical oil ISO 10 or 15 or 22 or 32

(this is a highly refined mineral hydrocarbon oil)

these types of oils are are used in carbon face seals which is a different lubrication regimes than a ball or roller bearing

in countries outside the usa- they would use a turbine oil for bearings -

(I used to work for over two decades for RP)

this ‘franklin’ pump uses the pumped water to lubricant the kingsbury tilt pad thrust bearings.

If if it has an accessible axial or radial bearing at the other end that has a lubricant reservoir - either leave it alone or use a quality bearing lube - it’s sealed and should not leak into the water....if an 1800 rpm pump use an ISO 68 - for 3600 rpm -go lighter to an ISO 32

cheers

Nitz- Thank you for info and reply. The motor is not internally lubricated by pumped water in anyway and It's clean, which if pumped water was being circulated there would be sand/rock etc.. It's sealed, the motor is filled with a water/coolant, Franklin told the guy I have working with me this, but they wouldn't say what. I also know for fact it is a lubricant based on feeling the coolant that came out of the thing. Your probably right in some applications, I wouldn't say your wrong. I believe it is water and glycol, it is a lubricant/coolant and safe for a well. I will go this route if I can.

How about using FPS oil?