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Bacteria Exposed to Very High Voltage Potential

09/12/2019 8:49 AM

I wonder if tasing bacteria would kill them literally by electrocution.

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#1

Re: Bacteria Exposed to Very High Voltage Potential

09/12/2019 9:00 AM

Well it is difficult to be electrocuted... Figuratively.

So yes. Of course.

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#2

Re: Bacteria Exposed to Very High Voltage Potential

09/12/2019 10:31 AM

Pulsed electrical fields have been used/investigated for food sterilization, compared to other non thermal methods here:.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27242749

"Inter- and intra-specific differences in microbial resistance to PEF and HHP are much greater than to MS and UV. Similarly, both the pH and aw of the treatment medium highly condition microbial resistance to PEF and HHP but no to MS or UV."

Combined with silver nanoparticles to sterilize surfaces:

https://www.medicaldesignandoutsourcing.com/silver-electricity-kill-bacteria-heres/

Not sure about using a taser to do the job... what would you do, tase dirty water hoping to make it drinkable? Not just awkward, I wouldn't count on it working.

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#4
In reply to #2

Re: Bacteria Exposed to Very High Voltage Potential

09/12/2019 11:17 AM

I want to shake the guts of those bacteria till they pop. If there's some configuration I could use. Probably a low-energy methods.

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#13
In reply to #4

Re: Bacteria Exposed to Very High Voltage Potential

09/13/2019 12:31 AM

Have you considered using a microwave? That achieves a similar (shaking) result just using a different (and safer and more uniform) method.

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#17
In reply to #13

Re: Bacteria Exposed to Very High Voltage Potential

09/13/2019 1:53 PM

O its a little bit formal and sophisticated. I am searching for simple but rustic method

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#3

Re: Bacteria Exposed to Very High Voltage Potential

09/12/2019 10:58 AM

Sterilization of liquid by high electric field pulse

...."There are two methods for sterilization of foods, heating and non-heating. The heating sterilization is now widely used for liquid food such as milk and juice. However this method has some problems. One of them is the changes in nutrition and quality of food caused by heating up to temperature for example 63°C to kill bacteria. The large energy consumption is also a drawback of heating sterilization; the heating sterilization needs to heat up whole volume of liquid. The non-heating sterilization such as UV irradiation, ion beam irradiation, and chemical methods are proposed to avoid these problems of heating method. The pulse sterilization, one of the non-heating methods, attracts attentions because it causes little change in nutrition of liquid food, and low energy consumption. We have studied the sterilization of liquid using high electric field pulse. Sample was liquid medium including Escherichia coli. E. coli was used because of easy cultivation. We used nonpoisonous K coli. We applied high voltage pulse to a coaxial cylindrical tank containing sample liquid. After application of 50 pulses, the survival rate of K coli was reduced to 0.01%. This value of 0.01% is far superior to 1%, which is reported for milk sterilized at 63°C for 30 minutes."...

https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/5377796

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#5
In reply to #3

Re: Bacteria Exposed to Very High Voltage Potential

09/12/2019 11:18 AM

Well said.

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#7
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Re: Bacteria Exposed to Very High Voltage Potential

09/12/2019 3:38 PM

What I find interesting is the notion that a taser could be adapted to the purpose. As long as it would still fire when the leads have been fixed into place, I suppose it could sterilize a liquid as in the above, if you tased it 50 times. That is assuming the voltage of the taser and its transmission in the liquid was adequate for the purpose.

Could the right taser be the ultimate survival tool in case of disaster? Not only a defensive weapon, but a means of obtaining drinkable water?

And how about that old rump roast you dig out of the freezer a week after the power went out. I can imagine you now, standing over it and firing repeatedly...

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#8
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Re: Bacteria Exposed to Very High Voltage Potential

09/12/2019 4:21 PM

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#12
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Re: Bacteria Exposed to Very High Voltage Potential

09/12/2019 11:53 PM

Bubba, Do not Try DIY Food Safety Research using Your Taser

This picture illustrates a serious problem with solid food sterilization by high voltage fields. The point of the red arrow is going to have an extremely low field intensity. The area between the two entry points of the arc will have high field intensity but the volume of the meat at the point of the red arrow will have almost no electric field. We are talking microbiology here and a teaspoon of sewage can ruin a whole barrel of wine. The bacteria and parasites very close to the point of the arrow are likely to survive and consuming the meat will be indistinguishable from consuming the meat totally untreated. Most of the papers involve liquids and a highly controlled (eg. coaxial) electrical field geometry.

Heating the food to kill the bacteria has the advantage of conduction of heat throughout the volume of the food. Cooking frozen food without thawing presents the same dangers as two point electrocution in that the whole volume of the food does not get "hot" enough to kill the bacteria in some parts of the portion of food. Incomplete cooking is a well known health issue and electric field sterilization will be far harder for your basic imbecile with a taser to wield consistently across the portion than it will be for an idiot with a boiling pot to thoroughly sterilize his stew. I suspect that most of you posting know all this and will claim that it is obvious. Well, when it comes to food safety belaboring the obvious is less dangerous than misleading macho readers into trying taser sterilization of their hunting meat. I do not want to hear about them in desperation out on the trail with life threatening dysentery.

So, Bubba, using a taser on your kill will not keep you safe from biological food poisoning. Boil it in a stew, or fry it thoroughly in a pan like you always have and reserve use of your taser for the purposes you always have. I hope your companions forgive you for the humiliation and I hope their immobilization is only temporary.

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#18
In reply to #12

Re: Bacteria Exposed to Very High Voltage Potential

09/13/2019 1:55 PM

No, not with foods. But exciting to have a bunch of trials just to verify.

Would ultrasound, kills micro-organisms too?

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#22
In reply to #7

Re: Bacteria Exposed to Very High Voltage Potential

09/13/2019 7:18 PM

Regarding obtaining safe drinking water, a simple and very easy method has been tested and confirmed as effective--filter the water enough so light passes all the way through it, put it in a plastic (not glass!) container and place it in the sunlight. After a few hours the UV in the sunlight will have killed all the bacteria and it is now safe to drink (in terms of bacterial contamination). It may not be safe from other chemical contaminants, however.

--JMM

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#6

Re: Bacteria Exposed to Very High Voltage Potential

09/12/2019 12:57 PM

"A team from the University of Natural Resources and Life Sciences, Vienna (BOKU) made this discovery in collaboration with an international food company, and they have now published their findings. The harmful bacteria are inactivated by means of electroporation, a process that does not require drastic temperature increases, in contrast to conventional thermal preservation methods, which in turn contributes to more effective conservation of nutrients."

https://phys.org/news/2018-10-electric-bacteria.html

Electroporation is the process of imposing a very strong electric field to cause the bacterial walls to become permeable. It is used to introduce foreign DNA into the bacterium.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroporation

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#9

Re: Bacteria Exposed to Very High Voltage Potential

09/12/2019 10:59 PM

I have been reading about sterilization with cold plasma for quite a long time. Here is an article from 2012.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3416436/

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#10

Re: Bacteria Exposed to Very High Voltage Potential

09/12/2019 11:14 PM

Must work for I have never seen an infected HV power line not even at the doctors.

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#16
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Re: Bacteria Exposed to Very High Voltage Potential

09/13/2019 1:52 PM

nayse one

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#11

Re: Bacteria Exposed to Very High Voltage Potential

09/12/2019 11:49 PM

Depends on the state of the bacteria, I'd say. If you've gathered together, or grown, a blob of relatively dry cell filaments, shooting them would just reduce them to char or soot. Dead.

If they're floating free in a liquid and you shoot the liquid, how dead they get would relate to how densely they're occupying the space, how conductive the liquid is, the voltage of course, and what you're trying to get in the end. Maybe sterile liquid with dead protoplasm bits in it, can't speak to whether that's a good thing. If the liquid was a protein type food, you'll affect that state also (congealing, degrading, altered).

I'd recommend against electrocuting your probiotic breakfast drink.

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#19
In reply to #11

Re: Bacteria Exposed to Very High Voltage Potential

09/13/2019 1:58 PM

electrocution then filtration and treatment or other way around? I suppose. Does it matter, sometimes we swallow our own saliva with lots of bacteria on it and it taste just great.

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#14

Re: Bacteria Exposed to Very High Voltage Potential

09/13/2019 9:53 AM

Since I work in a company that grows bacteria we are concerned about this and are always looking for anything that will do the job better, faster, more reliably, cheaper. When bacteria for human consumption is your product your sterilization processes are under constant audit and review.

63c for 30 m is a pasteurization. Sterilization requires a higher temperature, usually considered 121c/250f for standard materials and 132c/270f critical needs. The time and pressure in the chamber also have a lot to do with the effectiveness of autoclave processes.

Then we see UHT being used in place of the above mentioned pasteurization cycle under certain circumstances. We are currently trialing a small one of those for in line processing.

As these units are vital, foundational equipment for what we do I have become far more familiar with them than I would have liked.

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#15

Re: Bacteria Exposed to Very High Voltage Potential

09/13/2019 10:15 AM

Perhaps the frequency of the pulses would be the key to killing the bacteria rather than amperage. Resonate to shake their booty.

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#20
In reply to #15

Re: Bacteria Exposed to Very High Voltage Potential

09/13/2019 2:01 PM

yeah, that's what I thought too.

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#21

Re: Bacteria Exposed to Very High Voltage Potential

09/13/2019 6:04 PM

Well I was reading today about the latest "super earth" with water vapour on board. Seven times the mass of the earth, so you realize any life there would have to be seven times stronger than we are. And I thought wow, even if they had just bacteria, can you imagine the resilience of those cell membranes? Our little tasers will not be enough! The microbes of such a planet would doubtless be extremely hard to kill....

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#25
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Re: Bacteria Exposed to Very High Voltage Potential

09/16/2019 12:15 PM

even terrestrial bacteria are amazingly hardy.

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#26
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Re: Bacteria Exposed to Very High Voltage Potential

09/16/2019 12:38 PM

https://interestingengineering.com/earth-organisms-survive-533-days-in-space-on-the-outside-of-iss

Simple lifeforms have some stunning advantages. Surviving outside the spaceship seems unthinkable, but even algae made it. A barnacle no doubt would be toast.

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#27
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Re: Bacteria Exposed to Very High Voltage Potential

09/16/2019 5:45 PM

in order to kill most of our strains we rely on 15 minutes above 121c/250F in a chamber that is running between 18 to 22 pounds above atmospheric pressure. As harsh as that is and including a rapid depressurization does not guarantee a complete kill. It is quite amazing.

You or I would be dead within a few minutes of the unit starting, well before it even hit critical phase.

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#23

Re: Bacteria Exposed to Very High Voltage Potential

09/14/2019 4:46 AM

Many years ago, I read a paper in a published collection regarding using electricity to treat sewage. Now of course I can't find the publication or the reference. I do recall that the voltages were not high.

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#24

Re: Bacteria Exposed to Very High Voltage Potential

09/16/2019 10:20 AM

It would depend more upon the voltage difference across each of them, and less upon the voltage to which they are, as a colony, raised.

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#28
In reply to #24

Re: Bacteria Exposed to Very High Voltage Potential

09/17/2019 11:44 AM

I thought so too. Like walking on a grounded power lines. Size of bacteria is so minuscule that voltage difference across for them would also be not of a difference. I got it.

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