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Amulya
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Join Date: Feb 2020
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How Can I Get a Transformer's Core Loss?

03/10/2020 7:31 AM

We have to find a way to isolate the copper flow and to hysteric core loss. We are told to avoid a copper loss for our experiment. It is minimal, what we know. Transformers are issued to us but only turn ratios are received. There are no turn numbers given to us. It's best to check Sumner, however. What to do, may you support us?
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PWSlack
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#1

Re: How Can I Get a Transformer's Core Loss?

03/10/2020 10:26 AM

"Energy balance": 'Σ Input = Σ output + Σ losses' would be a good starting point. The first two can be established by suitably accurate test instruments and the rest is simple arithmetic.

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redfred
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#2

Re: How Can I Get a Transformer's Core Loss?

03/10/2020 12:58 PM

If you cannot change your transformer or the design of your transformer then nothing can be done to minimize these losses.

The copper loss is just the self-heating of the copper from the wire resistance of the primary and secondary windings. Measure the primary and secondary winding resistance with an ohmmeter prior to energizing the transformer. Each copper loss can then be identified by I^2*R*t.

The hysteric losses are in addition to the copper losses and are indirectly discovered by measuring the energy delivered into the whole circuit (at the primary), calculating the copper losses of both primary and secondary windings along with measuring the energy delivered at your load. The difference between the power applied and the sum of the copper loses and load is the hysteric losses.

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redfred
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#3
In reply to #2

Re: How Can I Get a Transformer's Core Loss?

03/10/2020 1:11 PM

On second thought there is an impractical way to reduce copper losses without changing the transformer, cool the transformer. The resistivity of copper is temperature dependant so cooling the transformer will lower the winding resistance. This might induce a different failure because of the different thermal expansion coefficients of the materials used in the transformer. Depending on how accurate a value you need for the core losses you can include the anticipated change in winding resistance due to thermal effects measured.

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SolarEagle
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#4

Re: How Can I Get a Transformer's Core Loss?

03/10/2020 1:16 PM

Fake pic....probably just a spam post....

https://apersonalorganizer.com/organize-kids-bedrooms-and-closets-home-organizing-challenge/

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redfred
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#5
In reply to #4

Re: How Can I Get a Transformer's Core Loss?

03/10/2020 2:32 PM

So what? Does CR4 now have a vanity filter?

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SolarEagle
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#6
In reply to #5

Re: How Can I Get a Transformer's Core Loss?

03/10/2020 2:52 PM

Bad players put up bogus posts on unsuspecting websites with links to valid websites where they then redirect your browser to a website that has bad intentions...

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redfred
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#7
In reply to #6

Re: How Can I Get a Transformer's Core Loss?

03/10/2020 3:24 PM

Yikes! I don't see anywhere in the thread a reference at all to sweepstakes or winners. I wonder if your machine, SolarEagle, has been compromised. Or did you intend to add a link to a home organizer site?

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SolarEagle
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#8
In reply to #7

Re: How Can I Get a Transformer's Core Loss?

03/10/2020 3:36 PM

This is what you get when you try to access the posters company link posted at the bottom as a tag line...The picture is of a different person, a professional home organizer in the United States...It's fake fake fake...I catch them all the time...usually just flush it...

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redfred
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#9
In reply to #8

Re: How Can I Get a Transformer's Core Loss?

03/10/2020 3:44 PM

So instead of contacting CR4 administration about a spammer or addressing the posted valid, yet simple engineering question, you choose to remove OT tags and attack the OP publically. Nice.

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SolarEagle
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#10
In reply to #9

Re: How Can I Get a Transformer's Core Loss?

03/10/2020 8:44 PM

I am the SpamKiller...I believe this is a bot, and I'm watching it very closely...It never responds...

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Tornado
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#12
In reply to #10

Re: How Can I Get a Transformer's Core Loss?

03/11/2020 2:12 AM

The SpamKiller? That's interesting; is there just one now?

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Tornado
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#18
In reply to #6

Re: How Can I Get a Transformer's Core Loss?

03/11/2020 11:18 PM

Where did that come from? I went to the NicoreIndia.com site and found no such problem. So far, Amulya's questions and comments seem sensible, although some of the diction is unfamiliar. (I hope she has had the opportunity to meet CR4 member kvshridhar in person.)

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rwilliams
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#14
In reply to #4

Re: How Can I Get a Transformer's Core Loss?

03/11/2020 4:52 PM

NicoreIndia.com serves up a decent looking page, slowly, for sure, but certainly no SPAM site...
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SolarEagle
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#15
In reply to #14

Re: How Can I Get a Transformer's Core Loss?

03/11/2020 10:14 PM

I didn't say it was a spam site....

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rwilliams
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#16
In reply to #15

Re: How Can I Get a Transformer's Core Loss?

03/11/2020 10:57 PM

My mistake, what are you warning us about then?
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SolarEagle
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#17
In reply to #16

Re: How Can I Get a Transformer's Core Loss?

03/11/2020 11:10 PM

Clearly stated in #6....

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rwilliams
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#19
In reply to #17

Re: How Can I Get a Transformer's Core Loss?

03/11/2020 11:27 PM

Blowing up your red flag, not sure how you got connected to sweeps5076 website? Was it a link from the poster’s profile? You may have contracted a varmint along the way...
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SolarEagle
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#20
In reply to #19

Re: How Can I Get a Transformer's Core Loss?

03/12/2020 1:20 AM

The site was hijacked and visitors were being directed to the sweeps5076 website...phishing and malware disseminators use this practice to infect your computer...It only lasts for a short time usually before someone notices and corrects the problem....The poster here is misrepresenting themselves as a legitimate employee of this company...my computer is fine, and protected...The picture posted as the poster is a legitimate business woman in the US...not some employee of an Indian transformer manufacturer....

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redfred
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#21
In reply to #20

Re: How Can I Get a Transformer's Core Loss?

03/12/2020 8:03 AM

Why are you so upset over this female avatar? I have some news for you. I don't look like my avatar. You don't look like your avatar. The vast majority of CR4 members don't look like their avatar. Even the few CR4 members with avatars that look like some person are probably not posting their own mugshot.

Please stop overreacting and whining.

As for your experience of a misdirected link, so what. You do not not know why or where the misdirection happened. It might have been at her host site, at any of the intermediate communication hubs and firewalls, or (heaven forbid) at your computer. (The latter would explain why nobody else here experienced the misdirection.) These misdirections and broken links are automatically repaired all the time.

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SolarEagle
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#22
In reply to #21

Re: How Can I Get a Transformer's Core Loss?

03/12/2020 10:31 AM

I'm hardly upset, it isn't my picture that's being used....I said it was probably a bot, not definitely....You sound like a catfisher defending another catfisher...

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rwilliams
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#23
In reply to #20

Re: How Can I Get a Transformer's Core Loss?

03/12/2020 11:12 AM

Ahh, so fixed quickly, thanks for the warning. You might have confirmed the URL you used to get to the site, tho we all might assume the site on poster tag line. I suspect most of us don’t go to the depth of finding the origin of a poster’s avatar image, I thought there was the route to the bunny hole.
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SolarEagle
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#24
In reply to #23

Re: How Can I Get a Transformer's Core Loss?

03/12/2020 1:44 PM

As a member of the Spam Stoppers user group, it is my chosen job to identify and delete spammers....some sneak in and try to appear to participate in context...most linked spam is connected with malware of one type or another, sometimes I run links through a malware detection program for analysis, in any case I volunteer my time to enhance the site user experience and try to protect users from becoming infected....

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colin55
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#11

Re: How Can I Get a Transformer's Core Loss?

03/10/2020 10:28 PM

If it is a small transformer, you need to know the approx frequency it is designed to operate at and then connect the primary to a variable power supply and note the current as you increase the voltage. A point will come when the current increases considerably. This is the point of saturation and tells you the max voltage the transformer has been designed to accept.
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WoodwardDL
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#13

Re: How Can I Get a Transformer's Core Loss?

03/11/2020 12:45 PM

Tektronix has an application note on this subject, based on o'scope measurements and data from the transformer manufacturer. Search Tek.com for "In Circuit Measurements of Transformers" Below is an excerpt:
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7anoter4
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#25

Re: How Can I Get a Transformer's Core Loss?

03/19/2020 3:07 AM

No load test. Since I's=0 V's it will be Io*Zm and Ip=Io.

You can measure Vs- the secondary voltage- but in order to turn it to V's you have to multiply by Vp/Vs

Measure the active power with one wattmeter by connecting Io to the current terminals and Vs to the voltage terminals and multiplied by the voltage ratio[Vp/Vs].

If you will measure the active power using Vp you’ll get total losses including Io^2*Rs and auxiliary losses

in tank.

By the way the core losses have 2 components: eddy current losses and hysteresis losses.

Peddy=ke.f^2.Bmax^2.τ where τ=thickness of the plate Physt=kh.f.Bmax^n

See-for instance:

https://www.academia.edu/40540384/Module_6_Magnetic_Circuits_and_Core_Losses

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7anoter4
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#26

Re: How Can I Get a Transformer's Core Loss?

03/19/2020 4:20 AM

Sorry. My mistake .The magnetic losses measured by using Vs[econdary] will include tank losses too.

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