Electric Car Batteries

You can run an electric vehicle on a beach, I am assuming the ad in no way indicated you could drive it in the ocean.

I'm thinking electric vehicles that get submerged during a hurricane in ocean water could become a bomb. Anyone have an idea or am I all wrong?

What do you think would cause that? Short circuit of the cells due to conductive liquid? The overall battery pack is protected and the cells have some individual protection and sealing don't they, you are probably more likely to have a fire than an explosion once the waterlogged battery starts to dry out after the event.

Link

The dangerous failure mode would be multiple control circuits triggered that activate multiple relays that lead to a direct short. I recall an instance where a car went into water, the electric seats ran full forward, the door locks would no longer work and the windows wouldn't roll down.

Basically a car submerged in a flood is considered scrap metal.

If you live on the beach any exposed electrical connections will corrode, any steel will rust and aluminum will oxidize...but I don't think any batteries will explode, they just slowly die....

..."Well in general, electric cars are fairly safe when going through deep water. The battery pack is sealed off, as is the drive train (e.g. the electric motor and controller). So electrocution isn’t an every day risk when taking an EV through deep water. Indeed, many electric cars have been driven through fairly deep water as part of their exhaustive testing. This water is deeper than most conventional cars could drive through, and the electric cars handled it well. We show videos of this in a following chapter, but Tesla’s Elon Musk says the following about Tesla car’s ability to deal with deep water:

Elon Musk...

"We *def* don't recommended this, but Model S floats well enough to turn it into a boat for short periods of time. Thrust via wheel rotation." 11:25 AM · Jun 19, 2016 https://www.greencarfuture.com/electric/driving-through-flood-water

Well, the first thing to do would be to respond to the <...ad...> and open a dialogue with the equipment manufacturer, because it would certainly <...have an idea...> on the topic.

It is inconceivable that in such a litigious country any manufacturer would sell something that could <...become a bomb...>!

..."Their analysis found that, on average, a pipeline catches fire every 4 days and results in an explosion every 11 days, an injury every 5 days, and a fatality every 26 days. ... Natural gas distribution lines account for most injuries (79%), deaths (73%), evacuees (62%), fires (71%), and explosions (78%).Jan 2, 2019

Oh really?

What?

I thought this thread was about electric vehicles at the beach not pipelines. I also find this uncited quote implausible if not an outright lie after editing.

I agree,, natural gas couldn't possibly explode....that often

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/09/massachusetts-explosions-fire-gas/570361/#:~:text=From%201998%20to%202017%2C%2015,might%20sound%20like%20a%20lot.

I was responding to PWSlack 's statement...try to pay attention....

All of the submarines of WWI and WWII operated with batteries when fully submerged. Using batteries around salt water is not automatically a recipe for disaster. It all depends on how one designs the system around the batteries.

On the other hand as anyone with a boat knows, ocean water is relentless at taking anything apart. Consistent maintenance and vigilance for new failures is the only thing that keeps any machine exposed to ocean water operating. Entropy Rules!

That's why it's such a good idea to put wind turbines out in the ocean.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offshore_wind_power

Wind turbines average maybe 20%-25% capacity factor ...

All the wiring and generating connections and equipment are sealed in those little houses on the wind turbines, and air conditioned to help control the corrosive environment...

But there is also all the infrastructure necessary to get that power to shore that lives under the water.

Also sealed...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_power_cable

There’s not much flexibility in that cable...

It's really heavy too...

Any engineer worth their salt, identifies the difficulties of a design location and mitigates the difficulties. Maintenance is the key.

Hurricanes, Man. Just bought a electrical Genie man lift that was in 6 feet of sea water.

I was lucky.

The connector cables of both battery banks were under the level of the battery terminals. These connectors were completely gone - electrolysis - by the sea water and saved the battery terminals because by the time the water reached the terminals, the batteries were completely discharged.

Otherwise all terminals on batteries - starter motor etc.. simply disappear.

A Leaf that was under water had a bad charger controller, but the battery still has 95% of its capacity left. (Same explanation)

What is under power gets bad.

OK, it's out, let's keep going....

I would expect many delayed problems with a vehicle that has been exposed to salt water or salt mist.Connectors,wiring,etc.Even the best seals are not perfect.

Some AGM batteries are rated for submarine duty,so maybe it is possible to seal batteries for such service,but I would not bet on it.

Back in the '70's I saw a VW Beetle submerged nearly waist deep in fresh water,running perfectly,blowing bubbles and pulling other vehicles that had stalled out of the low spot in the parking lot.

The intake on these air cooled engines is higher than the water level,and the water did not foul out the spark plug wiring,so anything is possible,I guess.

Modified VW's for Dune Buggy service that are operated on the beach have many wiring problems due to corrosion.

Batteries work under water.

These are specifically designed for underwater service,not driven on the highway.

All totally waterproof packages are expensive.

The USA will not allow a "Waterproof" designation on devices,they must state

"Water Resistant" instead.

Water proof is very expensive to design and implement,but it is possible but expensive.

I installed a 600VAC 3Ph condensate return pump in a factory,and 3 months later was called back due to a flood filling the sub level where the pump was located.It was running happily submerged in about 4 feet of water,no fuses blown,no shorts,etc.

After the water was pumped out and the area dried out,I examined the connections that my crew had used. It was Ideal Crimp Sleeve and Wrap Cap connectors.Not designed for water proof,but they did the job that time.The motor was a TEFC construction, and disassembly revealed no water inside,and the winding's were baked and coated with Glyptal 1201 and the motor was put back in service with new bearings,just to be sure, and no problems were incurred afterwards.

Go figure..sometimes you just get lucky...

Precisely my point that with proper design and maintenance an electric machine can work even after being submerged. Now a truck will not be designed to be constantly submerged in sea water like the scuba assist was designed to endure. However, trucks will be rained upon and be driven into standing water despite warnings in a user manual to not drive in standing water. They must be designed to endure some water.

I would like to see that car in the op in about 6 months time and see how it is working.

A friend on mine drove his car on the beach with the tide coming in and he was in the edge of the surf where the sand was hard to prevent getting stuck again (he had just been pulled out of the sand by a dune buggy). He was going about 60 mph,and people were scattering like roaches when you turn on the light.

He drove about a mile looking for a low dune to cross over,and he finally saw one,goosed it and hit it at about 75 mph,went airborne,and landed in firm sand.

The next several months were hell on the car.

Everything electrical was shot,and he wound up replacing the wiring harness,all of the lights,alternator,etc.

The rust damage was time delayed and constant.

I never rode in a car with him again.

I'm reminded of two saying that seem to fit here, for you.

1. Never argue with idiots, they'll just beat you down with their experience.

2. Arguing with idiots is like playing chess with a pigeon. He'll strut all over the board, knocking all the pieces over. Then he'll $hit on the board and declare himself the winner.

You are outnumbered by the idiots.

You think that’s something... there’s a member here that had a melt down and he kept posting his garbage that belonged in the break room.

addendum to my response to AP1

And he’s eating crow now and he’s so embarrassed,... especially after his great melt down of 2017, he’s so deranged with hatred, he’s probably posting as an Anonymous Poster...

he may think he’s clever... instead he just makes everyone around him look like geniuses.

"No one can offend me unless I allow it"..Eleanor Roosevelt

I must respect a person before I can be offended by that person.

Impossible to respect anyone I don't know.

There is only one thing that makes me angry,and it has only happened one time.

I hope it never happens again.

I am too old to fight,and too proud to run.

The only one that doesn’t know it, is AP...
I’m waiting for the AP to bring up how racist that comment of yours is... (All because you disagree with him)

That sounds like a typical politician* to me.

They grovel at your feet and beg,but when you feed them and they fly over your head,they crap on you.

* Poli-tician A two part word:...Poly:Many

Ticks: Blood sucking parasites.

Hey Ron,

Water is not a problem in that sense, But for Tesla it poses different challenges.

https://electrek.co/2020/07/15/video-tesla-model-3-losing-rear-bumper-viral/

When the drive started for electric cars I said to myself, "Time for more and better car fires..."

If you happen to catch a splash of salt water and trigger a hard short, the results can be spectacular.

The best way to safely discharge lithium batteries when they become unstable is to submerge them in salt water.

Check out electric vehicle battery fires. They are pretty rare. One which did burn was a Mitsubishi plug-in hybrid which took a bath when trying to launch or retrieve a boat. It caught fire some hours later.

Oddly the same battery manufacturer as the Boeing problem batteries.

Making long lasting Lithium batteries is more an art than a manufacturing technique according to Panasonic.

The technology is very young and still developing now that there is R&D money to be spent on it.