Steam Dryer Drum Pressure Vessel Registration Questions

If the drum wasn’t ASME certified and stamped, it’s impossible.

the biggest reason ASME exists is for traceability...

• trace material for verification,
• Trace Fabricator and welder
• trace design specifications and calculations
• and trace testing.

as far as reverse engineering, that’s on you. You will need to do the leg work on your own... unless a member here feels charitable, and points you in the right direction,... but it’s still be on you.

Hi phoenix911. Yes the nameplate that I have does not have any ASME stamp on it and date of manufacture is 1960. If it is not ASME stamped, and we have it in Canada, what is the best way to make it function? What do I need to work on and if you can give me the direction of next steps involved in such a case...Many thanks..

What sort of pressures are we dealing with here...? 7-15 psi...? Has the metal been examined for microcracking? What is the est total volume to be pressurized?

Hi SolarEagle. Thanks for your response. The steam pressure is 150 psig and temperature is 366 F. I do not have any report form the manufacturer nor do I have any drawings. We did take our own field measurements and that is all I have got so far....:( the drum size is 120" X 42". so the volume is approx. 96 cubic ft.

...and the thickness of the metal, and condition(any visible rust or corrosion)? Is it stamped with the max allowable working pressure?

Hi SolarEagle. No it does not have max. allowable pressure stamped (as per the nameplate). Thickness is 1.25" made of cast iron with ribs inside. It is a 10 ft. long drum with end caps bolted onto it. End caps are also cast, so no welds.

1.25" wow!... that's a sturdy beast...150 psi is negligible in such a vessel...

https://law.resource.org/pub/us/cfr/ibr/002/asme.upv.1943.pdf

Hi Solar Eagle. I did the calculation as per Table UCI-23 allowable stress for SA-278 Cl. 40 and found the minimum required thickness with C.A. is 0.924" and the existing thickness is 1.25". Does that sound good enough? One more question: the drum has internal ribs to support the cylinder. Is there any guidance in ASME code to take into account those ribs in calculating the actual effective thickness?

Yes sounds good, I think the internal ribs are more for negative pressure, like operating below atmospheric pressure...

Thanks SolarEagle for all the support. Really appreciate your help! :) I did the calculations for external pressure and found out that the vessel is good for an external pressure of 478 psig. Does that sound reasonable? Now I am doing the heads calculation and the heads a bolted flat heads with nozzle at their center. I am doing its calculations as per UG-34(c )(2). Please let me know what you think as per your experience. Regards.

Yes I believe this vessel was designed for external pressure, now if it needs to be derated according to age, or by how much, I can't say....There is a method of using iron filings and a magnet to look for cracks called Magnaflux(see video)...

Thanks SolarEagle. The flat bolted head min. required thickness is coming out to be 4.8" as per UG-34 calculations. The heads are only 2 inches thick but have ribs circumferentially all around the center nozzle inside the head.. Can you please advise on how to account for these ribs? Do you think the designer used these rib to actually reduce the required thickness from 4.8" to 2"?

I can't speak for Solar Eagle of course, but I wouldn't want to second-guess what the designer had in mind.

I was OTT in #27 in saying CI can't be assumed to have any tensile strength, but what design tensile are you using? I don't think you've given the diameter of the central nozzle, or details of the ribs. Correct me if you disagree, but I can't see how circumferential ribs add much to the strength, radial ribs would be better IMO.

I still think it's risky for pressurised gas or steam.

<...Steam Dryer Drum Pressure Vessel...made of cast iron...>

It might not be insurable. Make some calls. Today.

I don’t know anything about this vessel or really your requirements on what your using it for and it’s a risk.

if I was in the situation,... I’d ask,

• when was it taken out of service?
• what was it being used for when in service?

not knowing really what service you’re going to put it in.

• take in the information that’s on the label.
• Take a visual assessment on its condition.
• may do some NDT on it,... I call it vitamin B test with a black light, this should show any micro cracking...

And if it appears sound,... do a hydro test on it... as per ASME standards... I think it’s 1.3 times the designed pressure... I can’t recall.

You could do some more tests,... I have ultra sonic material thickness tester...

the OEM where I worked, that’s what we did for pressure vessels... (under 150 psi)

Hi Phoenix911. The service is steam at 150 psig and 366 F. The size of the drum is 120" X 42" dia.

Phoenix911 doesn’t need to know. The Engineer/Surveyor for the company supplying burst/collapse indemnity insurance cover needs to know. How did the calls go, please?

In the US, we call it Authorized Inspector (AI), third party through the insurance company Hartford Boiler. Which basically makes sure your following your (the companies) approved procedures.

and yes,... not only don’t I need to know,... I don’t want to know.

A 60 year old pressure vessel seems too old for certification....

https://www.nationalboard.org/index.aspx?pageID=164&ID=441

That’s what this stamp is for. (For previous ASME vessel repair)

The pressure vessels on nearly all steam locomotives in the UK of 15in track gauge and above are at least as old as <...60 year...>. The exceptions are a Stephenson-gauge one called "Tornado", which is a new-build, one of the locomotives on the 60cm gauge Festiniog Railway, and several replicas of the originals on the 60cm gauge Lynton & Barnstable railway, among precious few others.

There is no ASME stamp on any of them, and all serviceable ones are covered by a written scheme of examination for burst insurance purposes.

Thanks PW Slack.!

You are asking suitable questions, but I think there are too many imponderables to get a decent answer.

A good material for this vessel would be SA515 Gr. 70, but who knows if that was actually used? The mfr would know, but are they identified on any labeling, or do they even still exist? Even more complicated, unless you can find out what level of radiography was done, you can't determine the joint efficiency.

My first instinct would be to bite the bullet and buy a replacement.
My second instinct would be to ask the local AHJ (authority having jurisdiction) what you need to do about a mystery vessel like this.

Hi Tornado. Many thanks for your reply. I found out that the vessel is made of Cast Iron and it does not have any welds because it has been cast into its current shape (drum with ribs inside). The end caps are also cast and bolted onto the drum. What do you think? Can I do the calculations considering it as a cast iron vessel as per ASME BPCV Sec VIII Div 1?

Cast iron? Are you kidding? I'm pretty old, but not old enough to deal with CI as a pressure vessel material. Somebody should have gotten rid of that antique by yesterday or sooner.

Yes It is Cast Iron A278 Class 40 Seamless. Heads also the same material.

You beat me to it with that. I could be wrong, but from memory I thought you never assume CI has any tensile strength, if it has some that's a bonus. A bit like designing in concrete.

Maybe if the vessel were on liquid it might be OK, but on gas or steam, no way.

ASME was created just because of this... to avoid.

Hi WalterSperko. Thanks for the reply. Can you please clarify what do you mean by grandfathered? It was used in US and brought to Ontario but never used here.

Boilers and pressure vessels that were installed in a jurisdiction prior to a law being passed that required them to be code stamped can continue to operate in that jurisdiction since they were already there. Since your dryer was never installed in Ontario, there is no chance of it being grandfathered.

...so there are only two choices left for the original poster:

1. Get it inspected by the Engineer/Surveyor from the company that is supplying burst/collapse indemnity insurance with a view to its getting inspected, tested and insured, or
2. scrap it.

"Grandfather rights" - regulations are never retrospective.

• Example: the UK started following European norms when it came to power wiring conductor insulation colours in 2004. All installations since are in the new colours by regulation and there is no requirement for installations completed before then to be removed and replaced, of which there are a majority in numbers. The earlier installations can now be said to have "grandfather rights".

I will not advise on such a dangerous matter.

ALWAYS consult he Authority Having Jurisdiction.

If you cannot afford to lose,you should not gamble.

Would you be willing to sleep beside it 24/7/365?

What cost human life?

Think about it when making your decision.

Contact your local B&PV Authorized Inspector to arrange for vessel shell thickness measurements, x-raying and then hydrotesting if the measurement and x-rays indicate the vessel is still worthy. Except for Alberta, CRN will accept an ASME stamped vessel and vice versa.

Having a (304 stainless steel) pressure reactor that was just in need of repair, we had an R stamp certified welder come on site to perform the service welding which was then reviewed and approved by the local state inspector prior to putting the reactor back into service. Separately, I had contacted the reactor manufacturer to see if I could get pressure ratings for the vessel at lower temperatures than it was rated at (400F @150 psig per the ASME tag) but due to liability concerns they were unwilling to perform the calculations citing the units age (22 years), unknown condition, and changes that they have made in their designs since that reactor was constructed. As a previous person responded, you definitely aren't grandfathered so you can't use this as a means to start the unit up (which would also be extremely risky given the unknowns with the unit).I've worked with rotary drum dryers in the past and they are heavy duty units but given it's numerous parts and tolerances to accommodate different coefficients of expansion between the cast iron body and outer surface sleeve, age, unknown condition and how it was operated, how it was stored after it was removed from service, lack of overall historical information, etc. you will likely have difficulty finding someone that would even provide the calculations but, it's just a few phone calls to check. I would definitely first start by having a discussion with your local state/province/federal inspector and see what hurdles they have before spending a lot of time and potentially spending a lot of money only to be told by the local authority that they will not permit it's operation. You may also want to talk to your insurance carrier as most of the large groups have technical resources available to assist their clients in navigating regulations.

Hi Keith. Thanks for the detailed reply and I will certainly do that and keep that in mind! thanks a tonne!

Open a dialogue with the company that supplies burst/collapse liability insurance cover on the equipment at the facility and get their Engineer/Surveyor to produce a formal report on its condition. One might ask internally whether, or why not, it is on periodic maintenance assessment in any case, for inspection reports will give a trend on its condition.

One will pay for insurance inspection, and it transfers liability for its condition onto someone else’s desk.

If it turns out that its condition isn’t good enough then it will be in the report, and one will then know whether to repair or to replace/weigh it in.

Perhaps it is assignment that teaches one about pressure vessel inspection, testing and insurance of such vessels, and not in itself achievable in accordance with the original task briefing?

How did those calls go, please?