Do You Eat Organic?

For the most part, technically speak, it is my belief that everyone eats organic, since we do not digest and process inorganics very effficiently, to support living.

Ciao:

We do not celebrate Thanksgiving in Italy as you do in the States...

The important thing of eating certified organic food is that we are helping us first by enhancing our strength and health, and second the sustainability of the whole agricultural system. Organic farming practices enhance the soil fertility, improve the water resources management and protect the farmers and the consumers from all the hazards of the chemicals used in conventional agriculture.

When we think about our choice between conventional and certified organic food, we take into account only the final prices of both products, without reflecting about the "green balance" (just to give a name to it) that comes after the whole productive cycle: soil fertility, water management and purity, air pollution, the plants' health, the workers' health and finally the consumer's health.

Finally, I would like to say that our guest who answered to you first might be somehow ignorant of what the word "organic" means in the food sector or otherwise better go to another site for making jokes...

Fuggit. If it isn't carbon based, I'm not going to eat it.

High Julie,

I am the president of a board of directors of a food cooperative. I eat quite a variety of organic vs. non-organic foods, but more and more I am going more toward organic. I have the sense that as the food chain gets stressed with economic pressures and corporate interests that it will be increasingly important and perhaps our only source of unadulterated foods. As you mention, there is often a difference in taste. More and more I think I actually feel better eating organic. I don't know if I am getting more sensitive or if the quality of non-organic foods is deteriorating. Probably both.

I can remember when it came up in a discussion that organic food could mean fertilized by human excrement slightly processed. I'm not joking, I can remember the expose now.

That said; The definition of organic as applied to food stuff varies so wildly that it is no longer a term of accurate reference unless further delineated.

Now with regard to your taste in milk the question that begs to be asked is do you drink whole milk/skim milk, pasteurized /unpasteurized, homogenized/non-homogenized. As you eat your eggs do you find fertilized or slightly formed pullets occasionally?

In addition is the requirement for organic mean naturally bred as in seed and pollination or can it also be bio-engineered produce? Perhaps hybrid corn? Hydroponics or non hydroponics. What of the early harvest ripening to market approach or rather ripen on vine or tree and pick at ripeness and ship to local markets.

So, having said all these things I suppose Ill stick to what I find tastes best. Preferably what I grow and shoot. But in lieu of that Public supermarkets provide good turkeys and sweet taters.

Perhaps you are confusing "Natural" with "Organic". Here in the US there are very specific and stringent requirements for foods that are labeled as Organic.

MSG is a "natural" product that is in many processed foods. Look for " and natural flavoring" at the end of the ingredient list. That usually means MSG. But it is not the same as Organic.

Only one of the requirements to produce Organic food is that your land has not been subject to pesticides or chemical fertilizers for ten years prior to certification. Oh and the requirement does prohibit the use of human waste as fertilizer.

http://www.ams.usda.gov/nop/Consumers/brochure.html

Very interesting Zap.

When it comes to vegetables I eat only that that I grow myself, wheat products are another matter! I will not eat GM wheat or Mais for that matter, and neither will I eat meat from animals that have been fed GM crops!!!

When it comes to milk and eggs I visit my local small holding, the farmer there can guarantee that his produce is GM free and organic.

I shoot a lot of my meat myself eg, rabbits, pheasants, pidgeons, hares etc, these have only eaten what God intended. So you could say that I only eat ORGANIC!!!

Spencer.

Julie,

How nice of you to ask. Yes, my wife and I are preparing our Costco purchased chicken for our chicken and noodle soup. It was a whole chicken that was on sale for a two to one price, we bought two units, i.e., four chickens. This is the second of the chickens we are preparing now. It will soon come to a boil and after a couple hours, I will turn off the fire and let it cool so I can pull the meat from the bones. I cut up an union and several celery stocks into the boil and added some other seasonings so that the meat will be well flavored. Other than the water, each and every part of the boil is organic. We never eat anything but organic food. It seems the inorganic foods do not agree with us and we, like all animals, would starve without organic food. However, I do understand that there are some bacteria that can obtain energy from inorganic rocks, I can't.

The term "organic" as used by you and others is a misnomer, all human food stuff is organic. It is clear to me, at least, that the term "organic" is used to describe food is produced without the aid of pesticides, hormones, or artificially created fertilizers. But this was originally named by some "Nature-lists" who are opposed to anything man made that does not let them get rich quick, i.e., the natural food store owners and a few poor farmers who want to make the quick bucks, too. It seems they are unable to face the competition and have created a market for themselves with misleading and untrue information. In fact, using "natural" fertilizers has been in practice for centuries. This is produced by plowing under the plant stocks and by spreading composed and raw animal manure on the fields in the fall and winter after the harvest. In fact, this very practice lead to the salmonella in spinach a couple years ago. Manure MUST be properly digested in order to kill the harmful bacteria. Man made fertilizers are naturally sterile and cannot be the cause for salmonella. As for the pesticides, the FDA is constantly testing to be sure that any pesticides used are save and those found to cause a health risk are pulled form the market. I bet you use some pesticides in your home to kill roaches that are farm more dangerous than those used on our farm fields. Now, finally, there are hormones. Your body produces hormones naturally. Ask all those 50% of our graduating high school girls who are sexually active about their hormones. Ask the budding athletes who want to become our sports heroes about hormones. Yes, steroids are hormones. And will you refuse to take a flu vaccine, or an antibiotic when you are sick. Hummm, I think proper care with cleaning and cooking can take care of most of the "organinc" food concerns.

There is another problem with "organic" food production, too. The poor and elderly on social security cannot afford it. Just as with our outstanding medical care in the USA, it is available only to the rich. The rest of us are simply disenfranchised. I am an old dinosaur, born in the great depression in 1933 to parents of pioneer stock in Oklahoma. My wife was hatched from her dinosaur egg to a poor dirt farmer in Pennsylvania in 1927. We were both raised on organic, not "organic" food we grew ourselves or on greens gleaned from the roadside. We ate a lot of chicken, yard chickens that also ate the yard bugs and any other trash laying about the yard. The chickens also provided us with our breakfast eggs and additional chickens for dinner. Today they are called free range chickens but try your best, if you can, to have yard chickens you your city yard. It is against the law in most communities because the can carry diseases. It is even becoming more and more difficult to have dogs and cats in one's home if they are not properly vaccinated - oops, they are no longer "organic". How many of you are allowed to have a pet potbelly pet pig? How about a goat or sheep? A milk cow in your city yard? forget it. But in our youth, Jean and mine, all these were at hand and we did what we could to control disease and pests, including paying attention to the county agents suggestions for giving hormones to keep the cow fresh and vaccines to keep them healthy. I guess we were organic, not "organiic", yet we survive. My dad lived to be 85 as did my mom. My dad's dad homesteaded in Oklahoma, raising his children on what he could produce on his 160 acres, served on the Territorial legislature, was the legislative co-founder for Oklahoma State University, was one of the authors of the state's constitution, and died in 1909 of a disease contracted while serving as a circuit preacher. The disease was contracted one winter from becoming chilled crossing the Cimarron River one too many times on his preaching circuit.

chtank -

Ding, thank you for sharing <<BIGDUMBGRIN>>

very organic man. . .

chtank--Excellent recitation. I'd say you hit a few nails on their inorganic heads. Perhaps the present attraction by many to the 'organic' industry is due to an unconscious drive to get back to nature. I tried to get information from the FDA as to what constituted 'organic' in the food supply. I finally gave up. Either I'm a lousy information searcher and gatherer (which is possible) or our government is not to keen on the masses getting up close and personal with things involving big business. I say this because I was told by a food industry insider, a couple of years ago, that big business took over the fledgling organic food production (they saw green) a few years ago and proceeded to water down the rules to point of eliminating the difference between 'organic' and regular food. For example, a free-range chicken became one spent one our of it's life out in a non-caged area. I could be a little off because I have been unable to find the current rules but the point is clear. I would like for someone out there to be able to help me find the current FDA rules as to what constitutes 'organic' growing methods for animals and veggies.

......i eat origanic and probably everybody does......you can term it as natural or genetically modified crop or vegetables or hybrids ...well most urban people don`t bother for this difference as hybrids look good than naturally grown pure breeds ,some farmers do market for natural food with animal manure and non pesticides used and claim to be expensive with hybrids or using chemical fertilizers and pesticides with greater yield , I don`t mind so far taste is matter and digestions are okay for short term , but regularly we eat vegetables and grains from our farms

Links of interest

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/01/28/CMGR8ND2EU1.DTL

http://online.barrons.com/article/SB119465909085388805.html?mod=googlenews_barrons

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/yourmoney/chi-ym-started-1111nov11,0,3951937.story

Just to illustrate my earlier point. If you dig organic no worries. Respect, just be sure you are getting what you pay for.

Zap, all the site you listed are .com, thus, they are not .edu nor .gov. This, in turn makes them "special Interest" sites. Just because it is in print does not make it true. Once we let "special interest" start running our lives, we give up our own personality and freedoms. Is it possible for you to give some more creditable links and let us use our brains for something more than a hat rack? Some of the other responders have opened the door for you to find some real research on the subject; I would not be surprised if a few universities and medical research facilities have some input on this subject. This is your chance to be a real investigative reporter and dig out the facts. But as you do, you must be able to justify your conclusions with creditable sources.

Zap, all the site you listed are .com, thus, they are not .edu nor .gov. This, in turn makes them "special Interest" sites. Just because it is in print does not make it true.

First,thats a very narrow view. Many .edu and .gov sites are very slanted in agenda and thus colored themselves in opinion to suit their position as well. If you had bothered to note the tone of my initial post you would have determined that it was to indicate there was some variance of application of the "rules" regarding organic labeling in the U.S. and that fact leading to some confusion among folks as to what is and isn't "organic" or for that matter "100% organic". It was an effort to illustrate there may be some hype attached to the topic- In addition , I intentionally avoided including links from other nations as their rules vary wildly regarding the topic. For example check the UK news and government links on the on the topic.

I cited an example from memory about the early days of organic farming where processed human excrement was used as a fertilizer and how it created quite a stir. A practice no longer permitted in the USA, thankfully.

In addition your tone could be misunderstood as condescending - a position given our format here, that I will disregard as unintended.

You have managed in your fervor to correct me, perhaps based on your personal bias on this topic, stepped so far off the tone and topic of my post it no longer matters if we continue this discourse.

In closing "Organic" is a cool thing, however caveat emptor, my only point. Offered and then sufficiently indicated and illustrated by the links provided. The links, again as I stated were a sample of what is available for perusal by your apparent superior prowess in investigative reporting.

Enjoy your turkey day folks - if you don't have a turkey day where you live enjoy your day anyway. . .

Here is the afore mentioned link to a trusted authority. Note it is a .gov. I do believe that rcapper gave the link originally in this conversation, <http://www.ams.usda.gov/nop/Consumers/brochure.html>, however, I removed the stuff after the second "/" to get to the bottom (index) of things, hehehe: http://www.ams.usda.gov/nop/indexNet.htm

Note that this is a Department of Agriculture item and not a Food and Drug nomenclature or controlled item. And note, too, that in the Consumer Brochure, a disclaimer right up front that states that,
"USDA makes no claims that organically produced food is safer or more nutritious than conventionally produced food. Organic food differs from conventionally produced food in the way it is grown, handled, and processed.".
This is what I mean about documentation. I am sorry if you were offended, Zap, it was not intended. I am simply seeking a direct link to the authority to use the term "ORGANIC" in deference to the proper definition of the word organic. I, personally, disagree with the term altogether and believe it is misleading the public into believing food labeled such is of superior in order to gain additional profit - thus an example of one of the few failings of free enterprise, and with "truth in advertising", brought on by greed.

I don't like to eat plastic or metallic. Everything I eat is organic.

Pineapple

What about carbon fiber filled plastic and high carbon steel? They have carbon and by some posters' definition that makes them organic.

Good comment!

Anybody who really wants to understand the meaning of "organic" under the discussion heading can read the link that you have already given in your past contribution.

The N.O.P. (National Organic Program) is run by the US government and gives very clear and strict rules for a product to get the organic seal of the program.

The only thing that I am surpirsed about is that I read in the article referred by Julie that certain products reach an increase in price of 100% between the organic and the conventional one. That does not seem the correct price for the organic products which normally are 20-30% higher than the conventional ones.

Is it that some traders are not being fair about organic food retail prices?

I think every producer has a unique set of circumstances and some things are easier to produce in accordance to organic standards than others.

We may see the situation turn around as the highly energy (oil) dependent non-organic methods begin to feel the squeeze from rising oil prices and dwindling supplies. Most of the chemicals used for modern farming are derivatives of oil or highly dependent on energy intensive processes. There may come a time when people are very happy to have organic because that will be pretty much all we can afford to produce in terms of energy allocation.

What about carbon fiber filled plastic and high carbon steel?. . .

That stuff is good with carrots, now if I could just find my new set of false teeth . . .

I try to stay away from organic liquids, such as gasoline. Although I'd heard that consuming such things would make me full of energy, I couldn't get past the taste.

I hold my nose. . .

Dog poo is organic but I digress. . .

In general I'd go with the idea of 'Organic' produce. The definitions used in the UK are quite mixed and vague. I have to confess that I personally can't taste a huge difference, though I like the notion the veg etc hasn't been laced with too many chemicals. It is more expensive, but I prefer to support small independent suppliers. Plenty of the big Supermarkets here have been 'outed' for misleadingly selling produce as 'Organic' or implying it's provenance is in some way Greener than alternatives.

Like most people I find myself shopping in the bigger retailers, but I do try to use the smaller ones too. One thing I've not tried yet is the mixed boxes of veg you can get home delivered. In short you pay a fixed price, and what you get depends upon seasonality etc. It sounds like it would make cooking more of an adventure, but probably doesn't work for some events like Thanksgiving.

To give a slightly off-topic example, the variety of eggs that can be purchased is huge. 'Barn eggs', 'free range' etc. I think legislation is in progress to eliminate battery farms. This may be good for hens, but I don't think it implies better quality eggs. Farmers select feed-stuff with the use of colour coded cards to produce a more desirable yolk colour. The issue of 'Organic' seems fraught with problems. It makes sense, but whenever a profit can be made somebody is going to be deceitful. The principle is however good. Paying a little extra is in the spirit of festivities such as Thanksgiving if it helps animal husbandry etc.

Hi, Here is my contribution "to eat or not to eat organic food" ... I eat as much organic produce as possible ... I see lots of choices in our supermarkets; mushrooms, onions, bananas, yoghurt, you name it ... looking at the individual products I can see that they vary in shape and colour which tells me that they are hopefully organically grown and for certain not genetically altered ... the products marked organic taste definitively better but not as good as produce I buy at a farmer's market near my cottage and food from Mennonites ... I never doubted the higher nutritional content and therefore was willing to pay more for anything labelled organic even years ago ... as a child I used to spend all my summer holidays with relatives who farmed and therefore I know what produce should taste like ... it was sweet and delicious because it was vine ripen ... vine ripen veggies and fruits are also highly nutritious ... if the produce is picked too early it has lower content of phytonutrients and glyconutrients that are formed at the last stage of ripening ... I heard that tomatoes are picked green and gassed in huge warehouses to look red ... did your realize that each non-organic tomato or banana has ideal shape, size, colour, and that is not natural ... a couple of years ago I read about a study that shocked the scientists because some produce that our ancestors ate had 50% more nutrients ... we would have to eat ten or more bowls of salad to get the same amount of nutrients as they got in one serving ... their food was more nutritious because the soils was not chemically treated but enriched using the traditional processes ... I hope that organic farmers follow the same tradition as their ancestors regarding rotating the crops and leaving the land idle ... one big problem with soil is that no farmers add minerals to it therefore even organically grown products is low in the essential minerals ... only aboriginal peoples replenish the minerals taken up by the plants; this should be a closed circle ... the minerals (some 60+) are linked to longevity and lack of them is linked to the diseases that are on a rise ... I am enclosing an e-mail I received from Doctor Mercola, I waited for this study for a long time ... Jaan. It's Official: Organic Really is Better

The debate over whether organic food is healthier than conventionally grown food may be over, according to results from a $25-million study into organic food -- the largest of its kind to date.

The four-year, European-Union-funded study found that:

• Organic fruit and vegetables contain up to 40 percent more antioxidants
• Organic produce had higher levels of beneficial minerals like iron and zinc
• Milk from organic herds contained up to 90 percent more antioxidants

The researchers obtained their results after growing fruit and vegetables, and raising cattle, on adjacent organic and non-organic sites. They say that eating organic foods can even help to increase the nutrient intake of people who don't eat the recommended five servings of fruits and vegetables a day.

The UK's Food Standards Agency, which has formerly said that there is no difference between organic and conventional foods, is reviewing the research findings.

Local is Now Better Than Organic
If you want to get the freshest, most nutrient-rich foods available, you simply must seek out real sources close to your home. When I say "real sources" I'm referring to farmers, food coops, farmers' markets, and community-supported agriculture programs -- NOT your local supermarket, or even your local big-name health food store.
These are the people who are growing your food, and only by speaking with them and establishing a rapport will you truly know if your food is being raised with integrity and health in mind.
Know also that many small farmers raise their foods according to organic standards, yet are unable to afford the federal certification progress to legally call them so. Ask your local farmers, and you'll likely be surprised at how natural their farming methods are.
The bottom line?
Folks, simply stick to eating food that comes from your community, and from nature. Eat meats, vegetables, fruits, nuts, and more that come from a farmer you trust, and you will thrive.
For those few foods you can't find locally, buying from a supermarket or health food store is, of course, a practical option. Just make sure that these supermarket foods make up only a tiny portion of your family's overall food.

Good post Jaan. Some years ago, one of the UK high street retailers (I think M &S) tried to sell tinned peas without artificial colouring. I'm not sure why anybody would want tinned peas, but the incidental colour of canning is grey. This experiment soon stopped because consumers simply couldn't get used to the idea of grey peas. A lot of food seems to get saturated with artificial colour ( and let's not forget all the other chemical nasties added for preservation etc). When the chance is there I'd much rather eat something 'direct from the farm'. It also helps to reduce transport and packing wastage. I'm always amazed by the number of people I meet who wouldn't know how to cook a vegetable. We have way too much of the freezer-to-microwave mentality.

BTW, who wants to drop by our house and pick the now ripe oranges? The tree is hanging down to the ground from the weight.

Ciao Jaan:

Good indeed!

Would you mind sharing the link about the EU study and report?

The fact of the local produce is a very important contribution to the organic consumers, as an organic apple will be always sold as organic because of the growing method, but it will have healthier properties if produced nearby than one coming from overseas for example.

Keep in touch!

Diomin33

Hi Diomin,

I copied the text from Dr. Mercola's article whose health newsletters I started to receive a month or so ago, though my friends used to send me his articles. Here are the links:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2007/11/17/it-s-official-organic-really-is-better.aspx

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article2753446.ece

http://v.mercola.com/blogs/public_blog/Why-Organic-is-Better-For-You-Than-Conventionally-Grown-Foods-8774.aspx

For this reason I also buy plant based supplements from companies that try to process as much organic produce as they can or if they buy the produce from the aboriginals peoples or if they grow the plants hydrophonically.

Enjoy the reading, Jaan

Dear Julie and All:

Wishing you all a great organic Thanksgiving day!!!

And an everyday great organic day too!

Where is Julie? We haven't heard anything more from her.

Julie, Julie, wherefore art thou Julie?