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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 54

Magnetic field force question

11/22/2007 3:22 PM

Since superconductors expel magnetic lines of force out of their material, let us imagine we have a pipe shaped superconductor that is 12 inches long with a 1/4 inch inside diameter hole, that has a 1 inch long, 1/4 inch diameter magnet placed 1 inch into one end of the superconducting pipe. This causes all the magnet lines of force from the magnet face that is 1 inch into the pipe opening to run parallel through the 11 inches of superconducting pipe to its open end. All this is in a vacuum. Now let us bring a soft iron pellet that is 1/4 inch long and 1/4 inch in diameter up to the open end of the superconducting pipe so that the pellet is pulled into the pipe opening by the magnetic field exiting the pipe opening. Will the pellet be pulled all the way to the magnets face which is 11 inches away, by the force of the field lines entering the pellets face, or will the pellet only be pulled into the pipe until the soft iron pellet has 'squeezed' the magnetic lines of force together as much as it can?

If the pellet is pulled to the magnets face by parallel magnetic lines of force entering its face, then doesn't that imply that if we built a circular superconducting pipe with a captured magnetic field of evenly spaced circular lines of force and had a soft iron pellet inside that configuration, that pellet would circulate thru the circular superconducting pipe forever?

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Anonymous Poster
#1

Re: Magnetic field force question

11/23/2007 1:44 AM

I believe that the soft iron pellot will stay where it contacts the innercore of the origanal pipe as it becomes magnatized the momenet that it makes contact with the already maxnitized pipe from the magnet slug that was placed in the pipe at the other end.

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Guru
Canada - Member - Toronto, Ontario (South Parkdale On The Lakeshore) Engineering Fields - Marine Engineering - Great Lakes School Of Marine Technology (Owen Sound and Port Colbourne) Technical Fields - Architecture - Private Practice 1976-1990 Technical Fields - Education - Toronto Teachers' College 1971 Technical Fields - Marketing/Advertising - Founding Member Hobbies - Hunting - Founding Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - Founding Member

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#2

Re: Magnetic field force question

11/23/2007 2:09 AM

Hi, Frank12!

This question is probably answerable in theory. But I betcha some university engineering research department would like to try it out to see what actually happens and measure it.

Reminds me somewhat of black hole theory.

Mark

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Anonymous Poster
#3

Re: Magnetic field force question

11/23/2007 2:33 AM

The net force to the pellet is proportional to the integral b^2dA over the whole surface of the pellet. if the magnetic field along the axis of the pipe is constant, the resulting force to the pellet will be zero.

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Anonymous Poster
#4

Re: Magnetic field force question

11/23/2007 2:59 AM

If the magnetic field is equal throughout the circular pipe, then the pellet would simply stop, as the field is equal throughout. No net force to propel it in any direction. However, if there were absolutely zero friction,(that is an absolute), newton would answer that any velocity imparted upon the pellet, theoretically would continue forever.

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Commentator

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: india
Posts: 63
#5

Re: Magnetic field force question

11/23/2007 11:43 AM

Mr. Frank12

you are consedring as one pipe 12 inch length having id hole1/4 inch i.e. 6.25mm id

hence your insertion manget diamenstion as as follows Redius of one surface is 3.125mm and lenght 12 mm

if you simply think about this magnet even if this magnet is rare earth magnet. with ndfeb, samarium cobalt ar any other which can hold as possible as high Bh max, ( magnet strength )

if any of above magnet you may have with you.

what are the property of that magnet viz br=== ?,Bhc=== ? Jhc=== ? Bhmax===?.

It is most important you are not consider that. what type of magnetization done on magnet i consider s at one end and n at another as per your Que.

Your magnetic line of force start from one surface of you magnet and end on another.

in your case if you insert s pole in side the hole hardly on distance of 50 to 75 mm your sarface intencity of field zero as per magnetic principal. that means there is no any meaning to take 12 inch pipe and taking any result that is just wast of time.

about me

i built india's first hysterisis loop tracer in 1990 and its installed in the campous of one MNC ( magnet physics) who have pattent for the same (world wide ) today also they are using same what i made.

jarunmagnet

you mail me your problem regarding magnet and its measurment i will reply for the same just mention subject as magnet .

nayanelectronics@yahoo.co.in magnet_electronics@yahoo.co.in

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Guru
Canada - Member - Toronto, Ontario (South Parkdale On The Lakeshore) Engineering Fields - Marine Engineering - Great Lakes School Of Marine Technology (Owen Sound and Port Colbourne) Technical Fields - Architecture - Private Practice 1976-1990 Technical Fields - Education - Toronto Teachers' College 1971 Technical Fields - Marketing/Advertising - Founding Member Hobbies - Hunting - Founding Member Hobbies - Target Shooting - Founding Member

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#9
In reply to #5

Re: Magnetic field force question

11/25/2007 12:46 AM

Hi, Jarunmagnet

If you are implying that someone or some institution stole your invention, and you have documentation that shows the invention to be your idea before it was "thought up" by them, you can apply to the patent office to have their patent revoked. You don't even need a lawyer, although having one will make the process simpler and possibly cheaper.

After you win, any royalties from the invention will be legally yours, including past royalties collected by the idea thief.

Mark

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Guru
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#6

Re: Magnetic field force question

11/23/2007 2:20 PM

Frank12, I think the first half of your first sentence needs explaining.

"Since superconductors expel magnetic lines of force out of their material...."

Really? do they? are you absolutely sure?

John.

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Associate

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 54
#7
In reply to #6

Re: Magnetic field force question

11/23/2007 2:37 PM

If you go to http://www.princeton.edu/~ota/disk2/1990/9024/9024.PDF it covers type I and type II superconductors. The magnetic field strength can get too high for some superconductors to not expel the lines of force. My question assumes the magnetic field is not too high to cause the pipe to go non-superconducting.

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Anonymous Poster
#8

Re: Magnetic field force question

11/23/2007 5:23 PM

f the pellet is pulled to the magnets face by parallel magnetic lines of force entering its face, then doesn't that imply that if we built a circular superconducting pipe with a captured magnetic field of evenly spaced circular lines of force and had a soft iron pellet inside that configuration, that pellet would circulate thru the circular superconducting pipe forever?


Maybe not forever, but until the superconducting field was disrupted.

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Users who posted comments:

Anonymous Poster (4); Electroman (1); Frank12 (1); jarunmagnet (1); MarkTheHandyman (2)

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