Freezer was a fridge and now a freezer again. Why?

Could be a defective stat or a defrost timer

I had the same problem a few years back with my old refrigerator in the garage. After some different tests I determined that the thermostat was defective and replaced it. It has now worked fine for the past 2 years.

You say "I can adjust the thermostat to get from 0 to more than 20 below".

But does the freezer compartment temperature actually follow the thermostat setting ?

• It may be low on gas.
• The thermostat may be faulty.
• You may have had a mouse or similar chew into a cable at the rear of the unit.
• You may have had ants inside electrical parts, they leave a trail of formic acid, (that's what the other ants follow), which is conductive for a time.
  
• You may have condensation inside the thermostat.
• The thermostat switch insulating material may have "arced" and a carbon track developed between the switch terminals - later to burn clear.

Please remember if you move any Fridge or freezer, do not plug it into the electric supply for around 10 minutes after the move is completed - This enables any trapped liquid/dissolved lubricating oil in the refrigerant lines, to "settle out", before power on.

Hi Sparkstation,

Thanks for your feedback.

"But does the freezer compartment temperature actually follow the thermostat setting ?"

Yes, that is what I am saying - I can adjust the thermostat to get 0 (setting of 1) on a thermometer placed inside, or > -20 (setting of 7), indicating that the thermostat is good. There has been no chewing or ants inside the electrical parts. The thermostat seems to be mechanical. It has a small tube coming out which loops around under the second shelf. I assume it to be a pressure tube to sense the temperature. I don't buy any of the explanations you or the guest posted except maybe the condensation.

"It may be low on gas"

Then how is it working now?

"The thermostat switch insulating material may have "arced" and a carbon track developed between the switch terminals - later to burn clear."

That would have given full freezing, and besides did it arc again and burn clear again? I think not.

I was hoping to get a refrigeration expert to reply, especially one with Kelvinator experience. Knowing the past history of this freezer, how can I trust it with my groceries? It is cooler in the garage, but not that much.

Some more facts: It has the hot coils on one side, and maybe the top. There is no fan to blow on them. When I took it to the garage it had ice on the second coil from the top (top shelf) and no where else. This is where the capillary tube goes to, so it's the first to get cold. The fluid then goes to the top coil, then to the bottom coil, then works it's way up to the start.

S

lode1231@hotmail.com

That part about formic acid caught my attention; because I'm trying to figure out why a top-line microwave oven failed after only about 10 months of light to moderate use. Nothing really to explain...but we do have ants from time to time. Have you witnessed ants as a precursor to unexplained failures of microwave ovens in almost new condition?

signed,

A $170 thanksgiving turkey.

Most consumer refrigerators, freezers, and air conditioners use a capillary tube as an expansion valve. If the capillary tube is partially obstructed, the quantity of liquid refrigerant that makes its way to the evaporator will be reduced, and the refrigerating capacity will also be reduced. In this instance, it may have been reduced slightly more than enough to balance the heat gained through the walls of the freezer. When you moved the freezer to the garage, you probably dislodged whatever was obstructing the capillary tube, so it works as a freezer again.

A clue would have been the way the freezer worked when the box was relatively warm. If an obstructed expansion valve (capillary tube) was causing the problem, the compressor would run all the time, trying to cool the box to the temperature for which the thermostat was set. If the compressor cycled on and off normally, the problem was probably a defective thermostat.

If the unit is worth the price of a service call by a competent repairman, you might do well to call one. Otherwise, you will never know when it will melt all your ice cream.

Hi bubbapebi,

It is also my theory that the capillary tube was blocked. I didn't want to bias anyone's opinion before getting any responses. The freezer was moved mostly upright and fairly gently. What was blocking it, and will it happen again? Does the freezer need to be turned off once in a while so that liquid will run down the capillary tube and clear it? Does ice buildup on the shelf where the capillary tube connects have anything to do with the blockage? It was difficult to tell whether the unit was running full time or cycling because it was sitting next to a fridge in the kitchen. A charting ammeter would have been useful, but I have no such animal. I have no faith in the repairmen around here. They want money just to come out and look (which will tell them nothing), and a couple of them told my wife on the phone it needed a new compressor, which is $350.

Regards,

S

The capillary tube is just a small fixed orifice, so it stays open all the time. When the compressor runs, there is a pressure differential between the evaporator (low side) and the condenser (high side). When the compressor cycles off, the pressure equalizes very slowly. Ice, dirt, and gummed oil are possible culprits. Ice forms inside the system because of moisture. If the system hasn't been opened, it wasn't clean when it was manufactured. Dirt would get in the same way. Refrigeration oil gets gummy from age and high operating temperatures.

If you know your way around refrigeration, and have access to the necessary gear, you might try evacuating the system and installing a filter-drier in the liquid line. But then, you would already know that.

The localized ice deposit on the evaporator might be due to its being starved for refrigerant. On the other hand, the presence of solid ice indicates that the evaporator may not be defrosting properly. If your unit is new enough to employ 134-A, it is probably self-defrosting. Check your defrost heaters and defrost timer (there is usually one heater for the evaporator, and one for the drain). Ice is a very poor conductor of heat, and it doesn't take much to reduce cooling capacity a great deal. If that is the problem, fixing it is simpler, and can be done with readily available hand tools.

If you haven't had some training as a refrigeration mechanic, opening the system is probably not a good idea. Also, remember that 134-A has anesthetic properties, so work in a well-ventilated area. Good luck.

This isn't exactly to answer your question, but it may be important. How old is this refrigerator? If it is old, take a look at the labeling and see what refrigerant it uses. If the unit is old and doesn't use R12 it is possible that it uses ammonia or another equally toxic refrigerants. If you smell ammonia or a smell like rotten eggs, it is very poisonous and you should get it out of your house and have it properly disposed of.

Hi garyceng,

The paper label is faded out, but it is about 10 years old. R134a is visible on the paper and the compressor. A freezer should last 30 years at least. If there was anything leaking, it would have long ago leaked out, and there would be no cooling at all.

S

Thanks for your replies.

The simplest and most obvious reason is a faulty thermostat.

The cost of a replacement thermostat in your area should be around US$15

If you are competent with tools, you should be able to replace the thermostat yourself, or get a friendly serviceman to do the job for you.

That will ensure you will still be able to make these,to enjoy in the hot days ahead:

Yes, here in New Zealand I have discovered ants responsible for failure of many electrical appliances, also the ruining of telephone jackpoints - not in Christchurch where I now reside, but New Plymouth and Auckland, where the ants seem to like the climates, and breed furiously there...

Hi StandardsGuy,

I don't understand this part of your post:

We recently replaced it and moved it into the garage. Since then it has become a freezer again!

I am assuming you don't mean that you replaced the whole freezer (if you did OF COURSE it would be a freezer again). Did you replace some part on it?

Mike

Hi Mikerho,

I replaced the whole freezer rather than pay $350 for a compressor that it doesn't need, and still have the original problem. I moved the old one into the garage. The question is what to do with it. I hate to take a perfectly working freezer to the dump and pay money to get rid of it, and I hesitate to sell it not knowing if it will give somebody else the grief that it has given me.

S

donate to habitate for humanity and at least someone needy will get good use of the unit if its still got life and if not at least the karma of trying to do the right thing will follow you.

garyceng- I just want to come to the defense of ammonia as a refrigerant. Breathing ammonia in high enough concentrations can be fatal. However, anyone who has ever cleaned floors with ammonia knows that your nose does not like it. Therefore, if there is an ammonia leak the first inclination is for people to leave the area instead of becoming a victim. The same can not be said for the CFC and HCFC refrigerants that seems to claim a few unsuspecting technicians every year.

Yes, ammonia is not only a great refrigerant, it is the most efficient of all of the many different refrigerants unless something better has been discovered since I went to school. I just wanted to share the info of the possible danger of old refrigerators. Because my father was in the business, I took a couple of refrigeration classes in the 1970's. I took an old fridge I had to class for something to work on. We were considering tapping into the line when we read on the labeling that it used sulfur dioxide as a refrigerant. We did not tap into the line. Sulfur dioxide is no longer used because it is poisonous however there are still a few around.

Another danger that everyone may not be aware of is to NEVER combine in any way chlorine and ammonia or to burn chlorine (as in bleach). To do so creates a deadly gas like some of the ones used our troops in WW1

Hi Y'all

Re Ammonia, Sulfur Dioxide. R-12 and R134a. All are gases at ordinary comfortable temperatures and pressures. All can be inhaled. All can be anesthetic or toxic AT SUFFICIENTLY HIGH DOSES.

According to the US National Institutes for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH), Ammonia is not flammable, but is immediately dangerous to life and health (called IDLH) with sustained exposure to concentrations greater than 300 ppm, and can be tolerated for 8 hours per day at recommended exposure limit (REL) concentrations up to 25 ppm. (Note, 1 ppm = 1 mL of ammonia gas in 1000 L of air, or 1 part ammonia to 1 million parts of air by volume).

Sulfur Dioxide IDLH = 100 ppm, short term exposure limit (STEL) = 5 ppm and REL = 2 ppm.

R12 is a chloro-fluoro-carbon (C Cl2 F2) deemed to be largely non-toxic for manufacturing and repair personnel but to pose an environmental greenhouse gas and ozone layer depletion risk. It has been banned by EPA. IDLH = 15,000 ppm, REL = 1,000 ppm. Some early substituted, called R12a were flammable blends with hydrocarbons, and are also either banned or under study for ban by EPA. For more info, see http://www.environmentwriter.org/resources/backissues/chemicals/cfc.htm

R134a is 1,1,1,2 tetrafluoroethane, and is also largely non-toxic for manufacturing and repair personnel. NIOSH has not established either a REL or an IDLH (see http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npg/default.html). The American Industrial Hygiene Association (AIHA) has published a Workplace Environmental Exposure Limit of 1000 ppm for 8 hours.

I just wanted to inform this discussion with industrial hygiene guidelines. Remember it is the DOSE that makes the poison, and at sufficient dose, all chemicals are poisonous.

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Thanks for the great info. This is not my area of expertise. I just knew enough to know that they are dangerous substances that should be handled with care. How would you reccomend for a layman who encounters a situation where he notices a leak or smells that rotten smell that comes from sulfur dioxide or a strong ammonia smell to determine if the levels are safe.

I live in an area that once had a lot of industry, both manufacturing and food processing. There is no telling what old equipment you might run across. It would be good to have some suggested saftey measures maybe in a new general discussion.

I know a person who was doing temp work for a very well known company cleaning up an area that had drums full of chemicals. In a short period of time he had enough exposure to do very serious damage.

Both OSHA and EPA have field personnel equipped to test air, soil and water and many state and city agencies maintain similar capability. Given modern standards, there are only a few regulated chemicals left with odor thresholds above recommended exposure limits. However, given over 500,000 chemicals and mixtures in commerce with exposure limits for ~ 1200, there is much we do not know.

One major pharmaceutical company, dealing with an inventory of small quantities of numerous experimental drugs, established an internal guideline that called for professional intervention in the event of detectable odors or visible dust/mist/fog/smoke. Even with the usual uneven application of that policy, corporate acute illness rates dropped. It will be decades before anyone could even consider studying the long latency illness rates.

As this illustrates, there are no easy rules of thumb other than to note that "the DOSE that makes the POISON." The other long standing human experience is that dilution is the solution to pollution when chemical destruction is not used or not usable. This means that short, low level exposures to most industrial chemicals are tolerated by most healthy humans. High concentrations and long exposures to many chemicals are dangerous.

On the topic of refrigerants, I do not have present access to appropriate statistics, but I suspect the pin hole leak releasing a jet of pressurized liquid that cools via Joule Thompson throttling has injured far more HVAC mechanics than has inhalation of the plume of concentrated gas that forms at the same time. The injuries are both freezing and subcutaneous injection. The subcutaneous injection leads to internal boiling of the refrigerant with massive tissue destruction by combined mechanical and thermal means. I apologize to all for not having warned about this accident mechanism in my first post.

NIOSH has a website with access to the International Safety Cards from the World Health Organization. I recommend starting a search there for health hazards of known chemicals. http://www.cdc.gov/Niosh/ipcs/icstart.html

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