Two Fire Pump In Series

The proposal assumes that the fire pumps will both start together, which may not necessarily be the case. If they don't then the higher fire pump will be either starved of water or it will present a resistance to flow. In either case delivery of water above floor 43 may not be enough.

Try talking to the fire prevention officer at the local fire service for advice, alongside the structural engineer [SE]. The SE may be concerned about the weight of the upper fire pump at that pont in the building contributing adversely to its earthquake or wind stability. Between them, a solution must be available.

What does the installation at the Petronas Tower in Kuala Lumpur look like (rhetorical question)?

I know in the UK fire regulations state that there must be an adequate source of pressurised water nearby to satisy fire fighting requirements.

For a tall building you must have a source of water available which does not depend on electrical pumps operating when needed.

So a tank will be required as usually the first step in fire fighting is to disconnect the electricity, gas etc...

John.

Hi..

Did u consider installing a jockey pump to maintain constant pressure in your sprinker lines? Normally, if not most would install a jockey pump + 2 fire pumps runs in parallel. Pumps are installed in a fire pump room [ground floor level]. Normally, only 1 fire pump will run.

If u install your fire tank on basement or ground floor, & your firepump some higher floor up; then u must consider the fact that what if the pump fail; then which other pump can serve?

Your proposed system with a second pump located on the 43 floor is a reasonable solution. I would suggest you size the #1 pump to have sufficient capacity to satisfy #2 pump's requirements. Each main pump would have its jockey pump to maintain system pressure. Proper sequencing in the control system, such that a loss in pressure in the standpipe above the 43 floor would energize both #1 & #2 pumps. Loss in pressure below 43 floor would energize only #1 pump. Requiring the pump manufacturer to furnish the pump and control system would assure single responsiblity. Factory testing of the system should also be required. And, the entire fire protection system should be powered from the same emergency electrical panel.

I've seen installations with tanks at both at the basement and at the top most floor or roof deck. The three top floors below the roof deck tank may need a booster pump to attain required pressure and then the other floors will work on gravity. The tank on top is fed by a water pump at the basement. Usually the roof deck has the space that would fit additional services requrements.

There's an old chestnut about the late addition to, and construction of, a leisure swimming pool on the rooftop of a building. It was realised, late on in the pool's construction, that the building wasn't strong enough to carry the weight of the water to be contained by it. Don't ignore the structural engineer!

It sounds like you need a sprinkler engineer to design this system.

by the way, I am a fire fighting design engineer ( 15 years experience)

but my question is not clear mentioned with any codes or standard

and my problem is that i am trying to put the two pump in series on in basement with water storage tank and the other one at level 43 without water storage tank, because the structure engineer doesn't accept to add fire water tank for safety issue.

thank you

How about installing a second tank at 43rd level with a percentage of needed water pre-filled and the remaining empty (if it is a load issue the SE is concerned about)? A lower level pump fills this tank at time of fire, while the 43rd pump relies on the partially fill to get started?

Fire protection systems must be ready to operate in an instant upon loss of pressure in the standpipe. There is no time to fill a tank. When a sprinkler fuse melts, the system must be ready to disperse water. The building structural engineer recommended against a tank on the 43 floor.............

exactly. the upper tank is primed with an amount of water for immediate dispensing but offering an acceptable load to bear structurally. when upper pump is activated the lower pump fills the upper tank so that they are actually independent yet working in tandem freeing the need for synchronizing.

Thank you for your response and it is a good idea,

But also we do not have enough space at level 43 - the available space is only 15 m3

Thank You

I think you are right, put another pump in series on the same line, it seems to be the way to go. Water is pretty heavy, as a child I had to give up my waterbed because the 2nd floor of my new house wouldn't support the bed's weight so I'm not too surprised that the structural guy/gal won't let you put a tank 430' in the air. I was traumatized for life when I lost that bed!

I am just a grunt firepump tech. Variable speed diesel Firepump w/ Pressure regulators on each system?