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Energy of the Phase Change in Condensation -- Where Does it Go?

03/26/2021 3:40 AM

I've used silicon rubber to glue some "J trim" to the roof of my greenhouse and the condensation slowly fills up the bottle. Its a very light aluminum strip This first one was at the south (sun facing side), and the drips at the north side are a lot faster.

The J-trim is at a slight angle so it collects the condensation from the roof and directs it to a spot where it all drips down instead of having a line of drips just before the wood. (the drops didn't reach the wood because I have silicon rubber to stick the glass to the wood and the sillicone rubber is hydrophobic) I will either collect the water and reuse it or drip it down onto a hanging basket to automatically water it. So, the J-trim goes slight angle across where the line of drops used to be. So, how do I account for the energy transfer as the H2O turns from water vapor to liquid water? Does it all get radiated or conducted to the outside through the glass or does some remain in the greenhouse? I also have a system where there are old computer fans near the roof (12 volt solar panel powers both 12 volt fans) and they blow the warm moist air down through "temporary plastic downspout" (simply a plastic tube) and then down into pipes under the soil where the cold from the soil causes moisture to condense in the pipes. This moisture then drips out into the soil. But what happens to the heat released in condensation? Does some come out at the end of the pipe where the drier cooler air emerges or does it all get conducted into the soil to warm it up or does some remain in the water as it drips into the soil? I have 2 of these air pipes, one goes into the soil and one goes into a water storage below, I have things set up so I can actually measure the volume of water that is condensed in the pipe through the water, it's plenty on a warm day! (Its just qualitative so far, I haven't figured out how to measure air volume through the pipes so I can't do any worthwhile calculations). The temperature drop for the air after passing through the pipes are about 5 C in the soil pipe and about 8C through the water pipe. A playlist that includes the experiment is at https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkzXlmAwZTZeWOz3H5ua7q5ItqnJww2G6 and apologies for the poor video quality in advance. I find the experiment satisfying from a learning viewpoint, and for reusing old computer junk and it does warm up the soil, just not sure if it is worth the effort for anyone but the most obsessive greenhouse gardener.

Thanks for any input, Brian

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Guru

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#1

Re: Energy of the phase change in condensation, where does it go?

03/26/2021 6:15 AM

In general: whatever is providing the "cool" to condense the water is what gets warmed up.

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#2

Re: Energy of the Phase Change in Condensation -- Where Does it Go?

03/26/2021 11:57 AM

For condensation to continue, heat has to be removed from the greenhouse, else it reaches equilibrium. Glass is opaque to thermal infrared radiation, so I suspect it gets through the glass by conduction.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Energy of the Phase Change in Condensation -- Where Does it Go?

03/26/2021 2:03 PM

Moist air is lighter than dry air,so it rises.

It meets with the structure above,which is below the dew point of the air,so it condenses.The dew point will vary based on air temp and humidity.

All of the water vapor that is condensed is a zero sum value,taking as much to cool as was used to heat it,but since this heat is conducted by the aluminum,some of the heat is conducted outside by the aluminum,if the outside is cooler than inside.

The cool water accumulating in the container will absorb some of the heat from the surroundings by conduction, convection,and evaporation.

The vapor will return to the ceiling to be dripped again.

The north side will condense more because of the temperature differential.

The pipes in the ground will help heat the greenhouse in the winter more than they will help cool it in the summer due to the larger temperature difference,provided that they are buried below the frost line.

A large diameter pipe will give better results because the air will have more time to exchange heat with the soil.

If you want to go big time,bury a terracotta pipe below the frost line,and it will provide cooling and heating for your whole house,but plan on going below the frost line and at least 500 linear feet of 6 inch tile.

The tile will absorb moisture,absorb odors,and remain at about 55 degrees F all year long.Just make sure you do not enter the water table in your area.

Good luck.

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#4

Re: Energy of the Phase Change in Condensation -- Where Does it Go?

04/06/2021 11:19 AM

<...what happens to the heat released in condensation?...>

It has transferred to a cooler medium outside the greenhouse, such as:

  • Cold air passing
  • Outer space
  • Raindrops
  • Snow
  • etc.
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#5

Re: Energy of the Phase Change in Condensation -- Where Does it Go?

04/07/2021 2:07 AM

As always, it goes into the conservation of energy.

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#6

Re: Energy of the Phase Change in Condensation -- Where Does it Go?

04/07/2021 12:51 PM

Hi, and thank you very much for the comments. I also have a question about the condensation in the plastic air pipe that goes through the water container under the soil. Should I treat the heat it releases as it condenses as independent of the temperature drop as the air travels through the pipe and loses its heat to the water or is it just part of the temperature drop as the heat is transferred to the water as the air cools? I

Image went in sideways, sorry.

Anyway, the computer fan blows air down into the black plastic pipe, that goes down into the water compartment and under the water and then returns the air to the greenhouse at the other end of the planter. And this one inserted sideways too!

Ps. I edited them on the computer and they still won't go in correctly. Sorry!

When full, the water comes up to within 2 inches of the wood above so it completely covers the black pipe. And I have a syphon that collects and takes out condensation from the pipe. It's typically 50 or 60 ml per day. The fan is powered by a solar panel and its output varies. The air temperature typically drops by about 8 degrees C from when it enters into the black plastic pipe to when it comes out at the other end of the planter. I measured the greenhouse and it contains 20.3 cubic meters of air. I also took down (from the web) the amounts of water in saturated air at different temperatures. So, the greenhouse air can contain max 191 g water at 10C, 260 g at 15C, 352g at 20c, 447g at 2r C and 618g at 30C. I don't have the figures with me but I think I estimated about 5 watts being transferred as the air cooled and about 3 watts for approximately 12 hours produced by the condensation. But again, I don't know how much of the 3 watts from condensation gets conducted to the water outside the pipe and how much gets lost to the air being blown through the pipe. It's probably a difficult question and maybe not a practical one but attempts to answer it are welcomed. Thanks, Brian

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