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EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/19/2021 4:12 AM

What is a reasonable guess as to when gasoline stations will be shutting down because of electric vehicles?

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#1

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/19/2021 7:11 AM

Why would they shut down...all they need to do is install some chargers...they already have the property and charging a vehicle takes a lot longer than filling the gas tank...we've already seen gas stations adding food services, coffee shops, gift shops and other amenities...

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/19/2021 9:47 AM

Sure, high voltage and gasoline, what could go wrong?

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/19/2021 11:48 AM

And some people are worried about cell phones...

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#7
In reply to #3

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/19/2021 6:46 PM

It's only a matter of time before they start adding bars and people will end up spending hours there and end up getting towed home....

Bob's Charging Station and Bar, Grill and towing service....Your full service stop...

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/19/2021 8:08 PM

You only have to two them half-way home while they use re-gen to re-charge their batteries.

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#28
In reply to #7

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/21/2021 12:01 AM

Haven’t you heard? The new Lightning has an electric grill option, beer keg mount with optional tap, and for free, 1000 Nathan wieners.

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#36
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Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/21/2021 9:06 AM

I had a 2500HD 3/4 ton truck with cloth seats... when ever I fueled up, I always had to discharge myself of static build up before I reached for the gas hose. This was the only vehicle that it has happen to me.

But, when I’m filling, I rarely go back inside the truck while filling.

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#31
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Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/21/2021 1:53 AM

I used to own an EV, what in Europe we call a 'van', a light goods vehicle. Early model Citroen Berlingo with low range. I used it for commuting and it was brilliant.

Here's the difference between EV recharging and ICE recharging: ICE recharging is an activity in itself, EV recharging is an ancillary activity. I saved time because I wasn't driving to petrol stations and queuing up to fill up. In actual 'time out of my life' terms the EV took up less recharging time than my ICE drive.
The Ev is plugged in at home, recharging while I'm watching TV, sleeping, sitting in the garden or whatever. It's recharging in the car park while I'm at work. In the supermarket while I'm shopping. I didn't make any journey specifically to recharge and that's the big difference. With a modern ICE I can stop at the motorway service station, plug in my car, and by the time I've come back to it after using the toilets and buying a takeaway Starbucks there's near enough 200 miles extra in the battery. Unplug, drive away. Extra time out of my life - zero.

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#33
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Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/21/2021 5:07 AM

Ach, "with a modern EV..." not "with a modern ICE". Fast fingers, slow brain....

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#4

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/19/2021 2:52 PM

Any <...reasonable...> business would take advantage of the new opportunities afforded by <...electric vehicles...>.

Therefore the question is nonsense.

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#5

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/19/2021 4:53 PM

Only the pumps will change.

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#6
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Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/19/2021 6:12 PM

And the time to charge.

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#61
In reply to #6

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/26/2021 10:09 AM

That sounds like advocacy for "business as usual".

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#9

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/19/2021 10:07 PM

What I expected to happen with electric vehicles was swappable battery packs to be designed into electric vehicles. A used but freshly charged pack could be swapped (for a fee) at multiple points in a long trip at what was once gasoline stations. That doesn't seem to be the engineering path being taken. This might be because battery technology is changing so fast that no standard, swappable package design is practical.

I also thought another leap in supercapacitor power density was just around the corner. This might have solved rapid charging times, dramatically reduced charging power loss and provide virtually limitless charge/discharge lifetimes. That fantasy did not happen, also.

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#17
In reply to #9

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/20/2021 10:11 AM

Hey Red, That is part of the issue. Currently we have NO standard for charging connector/interface/voltage/amp. Imagine if all gas stations had different nozzles that only fit certain cars. Oh and it comes out at different speeds so only certain other cars can accept it. And then just to make it more fun, the gas would only work in certain cars as other cars need "different" gas. Now, go try and take a road trip.

This is where we are at today. Oil companies have played a very large part in making sure this is the case as it seriously slows R&D and adoption. Tesla has for years offered to allow other companies to use the existing charging network. Why haven't they? The patents were made public over a decade ago. its common knowledge free for anyone to use. As you can see everyone is doing their own thing which may be great in the board room but in the show room its a nonstarter and both the oil companies and car companies know this.

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#18
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Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/20/2021 11:42 AM

I was curious as to how the oil companies encouraged disparate charging standards among companies producing EV's ?

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#21
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Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/20/2021 3:00 PM

Because it was the oil companies that lobbied for the national standards all fueling stations operate by in the US. These are some very smart folks and never miss an opportunity to manipulate the market.

Think Colonial pipeline. There was nothing wrong with the pipeline or its control system. The hack attacked the billing dept. But Colonial shut it down anyway, because, prices hikes + panic buying = more money. Simple.

Never attribute to malice that which can easily be explained by greed.

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#22
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Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/20/2021 3:13 PM

A part of me likes the sinister idea that the oil companies are slowing down the development of electric vehicles. I would not be surprised if in some isolated cases that actually happened. However, I think even Machiavelli would doubt oil companies are stifling electric vehicle development.

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#23
In reply to #22

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/20/2021 3:28 PM

You've never read "The Smartest Guys in the Room" have you?

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#24
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Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/20/2021 4:13 PM

One bad apple doesn't mean the whole tree is bad...You can find a bad example of anything...and why shouldn't big oil point out the shortcomings of going all EV, we do it here all the time, and we have no financial stake...EV people overstate their case all the time, are they against petrol powered vehicles? Are the EV people all involved in a conspiracy? You've got more conspiracy stories than a dog has flea's...You might want to consider updating your information sources to less emotionally charged less sensational click bait, to fact based sources...

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#25
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Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/20/2021 6:11 PM
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#26
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Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/20/2021 6:59 PM

Haha, yeah that's not one sided at all.... Stop polluting this thread with your vitriolic hate speech...

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#27
In reply to #26

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/20/2021 7:46 PM

If you're going to rebut someone you should think about what you are actually saying. "Vitriol" does not mean merely disagreeable, disputable or even provoking. If anything, your rebuttal is more of a bitter reply. Also that link is to a nearly hour long news report that you replied in a half hour. You never watched the report. Those aren't rashavarek's words you rejected so it is not his speech. Lastly, do you remember the definition for "bigot"?

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#29
In reply to #27

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/21/2021 12:18 AM

Yeah like I can't recognize a hit piece in 2 seconds...If you accept the premise that Trump was responsible for these protestors getting out of hand at the capitol, then you must hold the democratic leadership responsible for the BLM protests that were a 100 times worse...

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#40
In reply to #29

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/21/2021 9:53 AM

What you dont seem to be able to recognise is Hypocrisy and of course Truth.

So boys.... you were wrong, got caught being wrong, did the stupid thing and doubled down, and now the ol ego wont let you self correct.

I just demonstrated in a CLEAR and OBVIOUS centristist report and best of all from a LEGITIMATE NEWS ORGANIZATION (not a self described ENTERTAINMENT venue) That you ARE WRONG.

Now the rest of us will commence lauching hysterically at your pathetic attempts to twist that glaring mistake into something less embarrasing while simultaneously destroying a life time of working to be taken seriously.

Good luck, Oh, but could you wait until I get another cup of coffee before you go off please?

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#52
In reply to #23

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/21/2021 5:08 PM

You are correct, I've never read the book. I watched the movie based on the book many years ago. Enron was a single corporation manipulating electric power fees for one part of the United States, you've jumped to an organized cabal of power companies. Like Enron, I can see a few companies stifling one aspect or another of EV.

The earlier collapse of the EV-1 program might have been one such incident but that collapse can just as easily have been the proffered recognition by GM that the technology of the time was insufficient for the engineering and business demands of the market. In simpler terms GM may have seen too many parallels to Ford's nearly catastrophic attempt to leap to far and fast with the Edsel.

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#54
In reply to #52

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/21/2021 5:39 PM

Hey Red, There was a time when I would have been willing to give the benefit of the doubt. that time has past with the access to information. This has been reported on since 2016. Here's one of the reports on the push to force accountability by making this information available to investors. You can lie to the media but money demands proof.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jun/16/major-global-firms-accused-of-concealing-their-environmental-impact

As we all learned on January 6th, even the most ridiculous conspiracy theories have dedicated adherents who will "Go the distance" for their lunacy. Well money is an even more powerful corrupter than "special knowledge" and its effects on people have been well known for eons. As a therapist I was trained, not to argue with who people demonstrate they are. AND DONT DENY WHO THEY SHOW YOU THEY ARE! That is the truth, what they say is often the reason they are in your office. It doesn't align with the truth. Cognitive Disonnance.

The Enron debacle was only the tip of the iceberg as they recently discovered. The corruption was rife thorough out Californias energy industry and regulatory agencies, it didn't stop at Enron. This failing allowed PG&E to become insanely profitable with all the bad things that go along with that. Because they didn't use the money to upgrade and improve service they pocketed it. This in turn caused a massive wildfire. Billions in damage, Lives lost, economies ruined. Those law suits are just now being formed. And then last year the blackouts. Corruption is always a house of cards. When it starts to fall it doesnt' stop.

Be interesting to see how deep this rabbit hole goes.

A known fact: Companies Like Exxon Mobil spend Millions every year on entire armies of people who constantly try to "tailor" what gets into the media just like the Kardashians do, only I can guarantee you that Exxon Mobile has much better people and more of them.

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#55
In reply to #54

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/21/2021 10:28 PM

Pure rubbish...

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#62
In reply to #52

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/26/2021 4:16 PM

Hey Red, just saw this and thought of you and our conversation.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/exxonmobil-and-chevron-suffer-shareholder-rebellions-over-climate/ar-AAKpdCB?ocid=BingNews

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#42
In reply to #21

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/21/2021 11:43 AM

Is manipulating the market necessarily bad? Would you say those that manipulated the market by standardizing PC hardware back in the 80's and 90's were bad? Just because a business strategy is good for the business does not mean that it has to be bad for the consumer. Politicians love to talk about the win-win situations.

I won't second guess why Colonial did what it did. I have not followed this particular hack. Do you have proof that supports your accusation? Does Colonial get paid on a per gallon moved, or do they own the petroleum and make a percentage profit on the dollar cost for each gallon?

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#37
In reply to #9

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/21/2021 9:14 AM

Yes, recharging station, similar to the small propane tanks exchange used for grills.. The battery technology is advancing so much, in not only in charging, but also safety.

There are things I question, is not so much the vehicle itself, but the infrastructure to support it. As in the chemical and possible the toxic metal waste used to produce the EV’s.

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#10

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/19/2021 11:35 PM

Buggy and buggy whips are still available although the design of some buggies

have changed to use more modern materials. Look at NE religious groups. So, maybe

never?

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#44
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Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/21/2021 11:51 AM

While I have seen many Amish and Mennonite buggies in my travels throughout Virginia, Pennsylvania and the mid-west, I have never seen anyone with a buggy whip. Those horses are lovingly cared for. Beautiful animals, and their owners' pride in their horses is very evident.

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#11

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/20/2021 12:09 AM

Gasoline stations take up a relatively small piece of land and a dozen cars can refuel in about twenty minutes or less, whereas a great deal of land will be required to charge up the hundreds of cars waiting for hours.

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#12

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/20/2021 4:17 AM

When electric cars can travel more than a questionable 400Km as touted in the brochure ware.

Just did 600Km one way trips through the back blocks where towns are 100Km apart and even the shops are closed, and still had another 100+Km in the tank of the ICE car.

Servos will add charging stations and then have an hour to weedle more money out of you in their coffee shop, bakery, restaurant, while you wait for the batteries to recharge or you are stuck in a queue to even get to the charger.

Good luck!

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#13

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/20/2021 5:12 AM

IMHO:

The delay will be because of power grid redesign.

Each recharging station will require a tremendous amount of power per day,especially along the interstates,and during holidays.

Even if they have swappable batteries,they still need the capacity to charge the depleted ones and room to store them,during and after charging.

No matter the battery technology,centralized charging has it's limitations.

Imagine every service station with an electric substation large enough to feed a small town?

Far better to distribute the power by embedding charging systems in the highways and topping off the batteries as needed.

I imagine high temp superconductors carrying DC, following the interstates will become the norm.

In urban areas,each intersection,or bus stop could have charge capability embedded in the roadway.Stop for a traffic light,top off your battery.

One of these days,they may even have a vehicle as smart as a horse.

No matter how impaired you were,the horse would always bring you back home (unless of course,your horse drank too much beer. I once had to put a blinder over one eye of my horse to keep him from seeing double.)

Not much worse than riding a drunk horse,or one with a hangover,when you also have a hangover.

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/20/2021 5:42 AM

The drunk horse reminds me, can one get a DWI in an autonomous vehicle?

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#15
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Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/20/2021 8:14 AM

Certainly! It will be given by an autonomous cop.

Eventually,there will be autonomous VTOL vehicles that can execute a mental command without further instructions.

Looking FAR ahead:

People will visit alien planets,vicariously, via a technology similar to the Holo Deck on star Trek.

Food and water made on command from the molecular level.

Miniature black holes used as a power supply.More powerful than matter-antimatter.

Human shaped, rotating masses(Very high masses) spinning at near light speed to create worm holes.(The shape designed for specific functions.)

Perhaps no food will be needed,only light.

Our human DNA could be modified to produce energy like plants,from light.

The CO2 expelled could nourish the vegetative part,and the oxygen produced could supply the mammalian part.Total closed loop system.

Green skin?Why not.

Aging of the body does not occur.

Nanobots keep all cellular functions operating at maximum efficiency.

And I am going way out on a limb here:

Peace in Israel and the Gaza strip?

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/20/2021 8:35 AM

Very good!! However, who gets the DWI? The drunk or the car?

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#56
In reply to #15

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/23/2021 5:57 PM

Light conversion, some people only appear bright until they speak.

What pest will infest us when we become light converters, will we lose the human fleas and have them replaced by mistletoe, that would hurt fork sure!

Would our food be reduced to dirt eating and water guzzling?

Would Greenfly rule the world?

What you present is a vegans delight, no sorry, not into lawn burgers!

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#57
In reply to #56

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/23/2021 6:46 PM

It is a very small world indeed for one with no imagination.

You have my sympathy.

"Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand."A. Einstein.

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#58
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Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/23/2021 11:49 PM

Everybody with a true interest in science and nature, will try to understand the modern theories, and integrate them with life's reality. These modern theories also allude to the possibility of super natural dynamics in which physically impossible motions can be produced.

This is extremely tantalizing for the imagination. It allows many more possibilities because we might skirt physical properties that confine us. Certain bounds are released.

People have thousands of ideas about how these things will occur. And why they occur. And what the future might be. There is a lot of hubbub about it.

Your idea of the future is just as valid as anyone else. The only thing we do know about the future, is that it will come.

Believe me, no one could have/would have predicted this pathetic delusional society we have today.

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#59
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Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/24/2021 6:17 AM

The most accurate of predictions has always been science fiction.

Impossible,ridiculous,absurd have often been the criticism of these stories,but in 100 years they look back on them as prophetic.

As Carl Sagan said,"They laughed at Columbus,the laughed at Galileo,they laughed at Fulton,they laughed at the Wright Brothers,but they also laughed at Bozo The clown."

“The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses.”

No one is always right all of the time,especially as regards the future.

We harvest sunlight now,in our present form,but there are several steps in the process,and we are all vegetarians,but some are closer to the source than others.

I eat beef,cows eat grass and corn,I eat chicken,chickens eat vegetable matter:protein from soybeans and corn.

Ultimately, we are all made of dust and dirt that has been ground down by time and weather,and the mountains are made of matter that was formed by exploding super nova billions of years ago.

We are all stardust,and all creatures are the universe's way of looking at itself from different perspectives.

Species come and go,evolve and have their time on stage,then erode into a layer that is kneaded by tectonics,and eventually spewed out as volcanic ash,to nourish another cycle.

Eventually,this whole stage will disappear,as the Sun turns onto a red giant,in a few billions of years,and the only record of our existence will be the voyager that has left our puny little dust mote,sent out by an ancient species.

Perhaps the Voyager will be discovered by some future species that will be shocked to learn that are not alone,and that they were not the first space explorers.

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#60
In reply to #57

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/24/2021 10:14 AM

That’s the attitude...

My experience people would laugh at my ideas, if they even came close to understanding it, they would saying it’s ridicules, never work or not needed.

I would do it anyways... and the some ideas worked some didn’t, but even the ones that didn’t work for its intent, the tools that I developed was very handy could be applied elsewhere as well as the ideas itself. It was a learning experience.

still got ridiculed by those people sitting on a fence passing judgement, it never bother me because when I looked at them driving away, it was a vehicle that resembled a old lumber cart while I got in my Porsche 911 paid for by my ideas they themselves ridiculed.

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#19
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Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/20/2021 12:12 PM

They might have a lot of chargers available but the more people that plug in the charge rate goes down, that's the way it works now...so it seems you never get the advertised charge rate unless you are the only guy around on the charger...to add to that the battery charges at different rates even if the power is available, the more charge you have the slower the charge rate that will be accepted....so the only way it could work as advertised is if you are at zero charge and charge for about 30 minutes, after that the charge rate drops precipitously..

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#20

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/20/2021 2:59 PM

My guess is electric vehicle dominance will start in cities with commuter vehicles and "last mile" delivery trucks. Thus urban gas stations may be the first to go. I know that in many areas of Brooklyn and Queens are already considered to be near gas station deserts but this is believed to be mostly from higher property values and more extensive mass transit. Maybe electric commuter vehicles is contributing to this.

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#30

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/21/2021 1:49 AM

It will take decades to switch to electric cars. Unless there is a huge breakthru. And it ain't cause we ain't been looking. EV is like climate change, it will come slow. And all gerbered up with corrupt politics. A real cluster.

With the political fingers in everything now, an EV support chain will take years to accomplish and then it will still fail. Someone won't wear a mask or get a vaccination and stop everything.

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#34
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Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/21/2021 8:44 AM
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#51
In reply to #34

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/21/2021 4:52 PM

I'm going to chock it up with a self medication miscalculation.

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#45
In reply to #30

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/21/2021 11:54 AM

That is the reality. But visionaries don't like reality. They want their change and they want it NOW.

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#50
In reply to #30

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/21/2021 4:22 PM

If these arrogant, know-it-all pro-green evangelists live that long...

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#32

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/21/2021 4:33 AM

At the present time, with the current infrastructure, the only sensible transition into EVs, is with the hybrid concept. This quickly solves some problems with pure EV. Maintains range and prevents empty charge breakdowns. Gives back reliability. No special batteries needed. No charging station needed. No charging time needed. No grid storage needed.

This conventional tech can be improved and tuned for higher efficiencies than ICE carriages. For larger cars and trucks, this could greatly reduce demand for ICE fuels. This could be done within a decade for most ICE vehicles on the road today. The motor/generator for main propulsion can greatly reduce fuel consumption, and provide impetus for fleet change over. DSP control of tractor torque sounds good too.

Plus, there is no huge disruptive changes in jobs and supply chains. When the people see the advantage of electric control, the demand will take care of the rest.

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#43
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Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/21/2021 11:51 AM

Haymaker. You make the best comment yet IMO. I’m trading my 2017 Lexus ES350 100% fossil fuel (FF) car for the ES350h; the four banger gasser recharges the batteries for a average 43 MPG car good for about 650 miles per tank of FF.

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#49
In reply to #43

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/21/2021 2:35 PM

Cruising on a highway takes very little power. ICE propulsion is hard to tune that low. Even with cylinder and valve control.

I've dreamt of having an EV for a very long time. Did some industry motor control. The control is amazing.

But my driving days are over. I can only talk about it.

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#35

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/21/2021 9:00 AM

Things aren’t as they appear...

In this case, things aren’t as green as they appear...

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#38
In reply to #35

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/21/2021 9:19 AM

Yes, it is very easy to misunderstand where the added efficiency an EV has versus an ICE, particularly when seeing one being charged by a diesel generator. The majority of the efficiency comes from dynamic braking recharging the battery. Thus hybrids provide a lot of that efficiency improvement.

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#39
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Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/21/2021 9:28 AM

Like any technology,... becoming main stream,... there are some inefficiencies initially one has to put up with.

I suppose, there needs to be some sort of ‘icing’ to mask its current drawing backs, to develop the end game.

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#46
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Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/21/2021 12:05 PM

In the city, regenerative braking provides for efficiency improvements over ICE. On the highway, not so much.

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#47
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Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/21/2021 1:38 PM

The big savings both in fuel cost and emissions is due to the fact that the EV is not running when sitting stopped in traffic. This is a major part of our urban commuters fuel cost and it will be especially important to local deliver trucks and short haulers who work in and around cities and often spend four of their eight hour shift sitting with the motor running. Then there is the savings on brakes....

For you youngsters, there was a time when gasoline had lead in it. This was the cause of serious health issues in our children, but first the oil compnaies had us blame water pipes, except it showed up in the suburbs where there were no lead pipes, so then the oil companies blamed Paint. Sure there's lead in paint, but not enough to explain why this problem is genertional since leads been in paint for centuries.

Finally after a few million more brain damaged children the EPA said ENOUGH. Get the lead out of the gasoline or be sued for the damage you've done. It was amazing how fast that transition was able to occur once the income was threatened by the government, Otherwise we'd all still be breathing lead and our air would look like this.

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#53
In reply to #46

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/21/2021 5:38 PM

Indeed. Brake pads are strictly for show. We used to test our repaired VFDs against a regenerative drive. Shaft coupled of course. A perfect testing load.

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#41

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/21/2021 10:40 AM

Meanwhile, PapaDoc asked a question.

The answer which that is pretty obvious and easy. A soon as a standard is adopted so people know what to install. The oil companies lobbied extensively for the standards current fueling operations use. It makes large scale adoption much faster, easier, and economical. All it will take really is either the US, China, Or Europe to say All Cars Have to Use 'X' and it will happen almost overnight. The Tesla system is a breeze to use compared to Electrify America or Chargepoint, only the EA station was capable of DCFC. ( CCS connection at 350kw as far as I know only Porsche uses this presently) In any case a 16amp lv2 is not going to cut it for most folks.

(note Electrify America is owned by VW and started installing them before they had anything electric in America other than the Egolf. (Foward looking company)

Chargers are expensive. Installing one is an investment that will not pay off fast so you want to KNOW you will be able to service as many cars as possible for the money spent not just say the few cars made by GM. Its that old ROI thingy the bean counters are focused on usually.

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#48

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/21/2021 2:15 PM

Yeah, when we were using leaded gas, the children were dropping like flies. And when we were using coal, thousand died from it every year. All around those dirty coal plants. It's was so easy to see and measure the deaths caused by volatile and particulate matter emissions. Millions were sacrificed. And it's all documented.

Yeah, those dirty days were rough. The inhumanity of it all. I'm sure the newly graduated crop will not stand for such atrocities. The world is much better off today than the problems of the past.

Life with real noble purpose, as opposed to our corrupt exploitation of our beloved life giving planet.

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#63

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/27/2021 11:05 AM

Hey Papa,

Given the actions in the last week I'd say sooner than later.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/topstocks/ford-rises-as-rbc-boosts-price-target-to-highest-on-wall-street/ar-AAKrubg?ocid=uxbndlbingoff

By 2050 you will be hard pressed to find gasoline. That's my prediction, I doubt I will live to see if it comes true.

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#64
In reply to #63

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/27/2021 11:18 AM

frankly your prediction isn't a prediction, more of a statement.

Petroleum supply is finite and will run out... the reason I say its a statement is that predictions from the past for when petroleum is ending, came and went.

It only kept extending the date of when due to technical advances in getting the oil.

I believe change will come,... but it will be from the proverb of; "Necessity is the mother of invention"

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#65
In reply to #63

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/27/2021 11:29 AM

You may be right. But I think hydrogen powered fuel cell will take over the market because of convenience. People are used to filling up in a few minutes and going on. An hour or two isn't going to be acceptable. I was thinking of getting an electric pickup. But when traveling, I don't want to wait very long to get back underway. And, think of the long lines. Hydrogen costs more now, but it don't have to come down to the price of gasoline, just close to it to get people to chose the convenience of hydrogen to EV.

The reason Amazon is so successful is the convenience.

I predict hydrogen fuel cells will capture the market in 5 years-10 at the most.

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#66
In reply to #65

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/27/2021 12:01 PM

Now that one we might live to see.

Its good to see some real R&D from the Detroit boys. They've been selling you the same car for 50 years.

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#67
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Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/27/2021 2:51 PM

What is the fiduciary responsibility of a business/corporation to its stockholders?

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#68
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Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/27/2021 6:32 PM

Depends, in Shan gri la, or in the real world.

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#69

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/27/2021 10:16 PM

We will not run out of any fossil fuels in the near to mid future. Only one third of all the known gas and oil resources and all the new g&o resources are harvested with our current techniques.

Two thirds is still there. Waiting. Think about that. 2/3rds. And we still have plenty of coal. The premium of fossil fuels. And finding new resources for all.

John Kerry invests in fossil fuels. He supposes to think ahead.

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#70

Re: EC Autos vs ICE Autos

05/28/2021 12:22 AM

I think the future is hybrid...the foreseeable future anyway...

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