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Trolley Car I Beam

06/15/2021 7:20 AM

Dear Guys.

Please refer to the photo attached. I have some mechanical problem that I need to settle. The photo show the trolley car hanging on the I-Beam of 100mm width with driving and non driving wheel.

It has 2 running I-Beam rail. The inner I-Beam rail is where the driving wheel with electric motor mounted on it and the outer I-Beam is just the follower free wheel. The inner I-Beam is badly wear off and I am proposed to replace it with a new H-Beam with flat run way surface. All the wheels will be fabricate with a flat surface.

The only part of the rail, I am concern is at the end of the rail, there is a bend of 914mm radius for the Trolley Car to cornering back to right side. Is my proposal is acceptable to replace the I-Beam to H-Beam.

I am not a mechanical background base but I need all the advice from all the professional out there. If any person know the manufacture of these Trolley Car, please let me know as I try to look for the manufacture. I heard those equipment are from Spain.

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#1

Re: Trolley Car I Beam

06/15/2021 9:49 AM

We're going to need more information. Are there any nameplates with manufacturing information anywhere? Your pictures show very little technical information

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#5
In reply to #1

Re: Trolley Car I Beam

06/15/2021 8:48 PM

Sorry Mike

It a used equipment from Spain. I couldn't find the name plate.

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#2

Re: Trolley Car I Beam

06/15/2021 11:52 AM

Please elaborate, what are your concerns?

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#3
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Re: Trolley Car I Beam

06/15/2021 12:28 PM
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#6
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Re: Trolley Car I Beam

06/15/2021 8:56 PM

I am concern about the trolley when it make a turning with the turning radius of 914mm. Base on autocad drawing it should not a problem but weather the trolley car wheel will able to make a smooth turning with H-Beam instead with I-Beam. With I-Beam the trolley car wheel have some flexibility for swinging as the I-Beam has a slop of maybe 2 to 3 degree slop where the H-Beam are flat.

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#9
In reply to #6

Re: Trolley Car I Beam

06/15/2021 11:55 PM

You might actually get better wear with a flat flange (WF section) as it will be easier to get line contact between the rollers and the flange, rather than likely point contact with the angled rollers for the S section. I don’t see why a flat configuration would track any worse than angle, providing your turn radius is large enough to keep the trolley from contacting the web of the section while in the turn.

Two driving wheels at the same speed on the same axle location will end up digging up the rollers & beam flange as you make the corner. One driving wheel may not get you the friction you need.

I worked for 8 years in a paper mill with a similar size beam (S section) carrying 5000lb rolls of paper with one 90 degree bend. The trolley had an electric hoist Shawbox, and it really needed to be replaced twice in that time, the rail, that is. The hoist would need to be rebuilt twice a year, maybe 30 trips per day. I think the hoist drove two wheels, the turn was always chewed up badly.

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#4

Re: Trolley Car I Beam

06/15/2021 12:33 PM

How quickly does the beam wear out?

Perhaps a hardened serviceable insert is all you need for the existing beam

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#7
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Re: Trolley Car I Beam

06/15/2021 9:03 PM

Basically, I just join this company 3 month ago and I dont have any history or record of the I-Beam problem. Future more, there may be some modification works carry out on the trolley car wheel and causes the I-Beam to worn out by previous maintenance people. The I-Beam last about 3 years only.

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#8
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Re: Trolley Car I Beam

06/15/2021 11:15 PM

How fast, how frequently and with how much load do these trolleys move? 3 year seems like an incredibly short lifetime for the rail. We have a trolley that is only used occasionally, carrying a ton or less load, at very slow speed, on a single supporting rail that also makes a U from one side of the shop to the other. I have NOT gone up to inspect it, but it has been there for over 50 years, and is still in use.

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#10
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Re: Trolley Car I Beam

06/16/2021 1:18 AM

The trolley car move at the speed of 46 meter per minutes. The estimated load of the car with gloves former is about 1.3 ton. It run and stop at few of the latex tank. It operate 24 hours. Only the inner rail track is the driving track and the outer track is just a follower. The trolley car wheel thickness is 22mm and I am proposed for a 35mm trolley wheels.

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#11

Re: Trolley Car I Beam

06/16/2021 1:40 AM

I like to look for failures, and what the reasons were....in crane wheels it's failure to keep the wheels square on the beam surface such that the hoist skews and causes wheel and beam wear because of misalignment....So I would use some modeling software program like solidworks, and run simulations to make sure your drive mechanism keeps the carriage and wheels in alignment with the track ....

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1350630717303989

https://www.engineeredlifting.com/blog/tapered-wheels-for-top-running-cranes/

https://www.engineeredlifting.com/blog/

https://acculift.com/track-beams-i-w-s-beams/

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#12
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Re: Trolley Car I Beam

06/16/2021 2:27 AM

I would think on trolley's that go around corners you would have some sort of guiding wheels system...but I don't see any examples....

This is for monorail...

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#13
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Re: Trolley Car I Beam

06/16/2021 4:09 AM

Thanks for your suggestion. I am also design some guiding wheels to guide the driving wheel so that those wheels are maintain the same distance during making the turning at the 914mm radius turn.

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#18
In reply to #12

Re: Trolley Car I Beam

06/16/2021 4:27 PM

https://www.xtek.com/en/guide-rollers/

Can't seem to find an image representing my thoughts exactly...but the wheels facing in to ride on the vertical surface of the beam with a coated surface for noise reduction would act as a steering mechanism...

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#20
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Re: Trolley Car I Beam

06/18/2021 12:54 AM

This is the idea I have....

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#22
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Re: Trolley Car I Beam

06/18/2021 6:05 AM

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#23
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Re: Trolley Car I Beam

06/18/2021 6:37 AM

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#25
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Re: Trolley Car I Beam

06/18/2021 8:33 PM

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#26
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Re: Trolley Car I Beam

06/18/2021 9:49 PM

New X- beam design...

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#30
In reply to #26

Re: Trolley Car I Beam

06/22/2021 5:16 AM

Thanks for the Idea. I have design a set of guide rollers as picture attached.

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#31
In reply to #30

Re: Trolley Car I Beam

06/22/2021 7:14 AM

It might be worth designing a fog/mist water spray system for lubricating those tight bends - unless one already exists, of course.

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#32
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Re: Trolley Car I Beam

06/22/2021 12:33 PM

Great, let us know how it works....

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#14

Re: Trolley Car I Beam

06/16/2021 5:12 AM

Doesn't the profile of the I beam aid in the self centering ability of the wheels as they run along the beam. After all the railways long ago went from flat wheels to shaped wheels to aid in the centering action of the wheel on the rail. Whereas in your case the wheel profile and I beam profile would keep the carriage centered because as one wheel moves closer to the flange the other moves away and the forces drive the closer wheel back towards the equalised position.

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#15
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Re: Trolley Car I Beam

06/16/2021 5:47 AM

That's true but the sloped contact surface also promotes wear in both the wheels and the supporting surface...

http://www.rail-fastener.com/train-track-safety-steel-rail-wear.html

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#16

Re: Trolley Car I Beam

06/16/2021 7:38 AM

This is a tracking problem. Start by turning it upside down.

<...All the wheels will be fabricate with a flat surface....>

Railway tyres are coned generally at 1 in 20, less so for ultra-high-speed lines, so that the wheelset stabilises itself on the track. When it gets to a curve, the wheelset tracks to the outside of the curve so that the outer wheel is running on a bigger diameter than the inner wheel, thereby imparting some turning action. To reduce the prospects for wear, the rails are inclined inwards at 1 in 20 as well.

Then turn it back the right way up for this application.

That's the reason for using I-beams as depicted in the diagrams above, with an inclined running surface. It wouldn't be a surprise were the treads of the wheels of the existing equipment to be coned.

Were an H-beam to be used instead, then the tracking and stabilising action at the tread of the wheel cannot happen, and something will be needed to prevent unwanted parts colliding with and scraping along the central web of the H-beam, exacerbating wear and reducing the intervals between replacements. This action is further exacerbated were the wheelsets to have a flat surface instead of some sort of coning, as in railway applications outlined above.

Now, if there is already some other sort of stabilising mechanism in place then all well and good, though that isn't obvious from the posting.

<...acceptable to replace the I-Beam to H-Beam...>

To whom? It doesn't actually matter to N-1 CR4 readers, where N is an undefined integer, and none here will be giving acceptance. Recommended action: replace worn like with new like, and don't deviate from the original design, for there may well be safety and liability issues were one to do so.

Recommended further research: Die Schwebebahn, Wuppertal, Germany - a passenger-carrying suspension monorail, and currently the oldest operational monorail in the world. The tight curves at the ends of the line where the cars change direction are permanently lubricated using a water mist/fog arrangement to reduce wear. They are nowhere near as tight a radius as <...914mm...>. Getting hold of someone technical on the phone would be good though it might also be worth making a visit for technical research purposes.

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#19
In reply to #16

Re: Trolley Car I Beam

06/18/2021 12:12 AM

Thanks for the advice. The only problem is the name and contact details of the manufacture of this trolley car was not available. This trolley car equipment are from Spain and has been install to this factory for about 6 to 8 years ago. It is not a new machine but it is used equipment. The previously maintenance personal may have change something or did some modification for this trolley car but there is no record or report to refer back. Most of them had resigned. l try to search from the internet hopefully I can found the manufacture but can not found it. The only hope is to get some advice from this forum.

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#21
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Re: Trolley Car I Beam

06/18/2021 4:48 AM

Not everything is on <...the internet...>. What isn't can be obtained over the telephone with some effort.

The advice of the equipment's Insurance Engineer/Surveyor would be worth having, and this individual's name and contact details will be on the periodic inspection reports, probably stored in a General Register by the maintenance area of the facility.

Try using some charm and "get digging" (so to speak), perhaps?

<unsubscribes>

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Re: Trolley Car I Beam

06/18/2021 7:31 AM

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Re: Trolley Car I Beam

06/21/2021 7:21 AM

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#17

Re: Trolley Car I Beam

06/16/2021 1:50 PM

Because of the combo of straight and curved rail segments, there will be scuffing somewhere. Sloped rail sections with coned wheels will minimize scuffing on the curves, whereas flat rails and wheels will be better on the straightaways.

Instead of hardened wheels, which guarantee track wear, you might consider elastomer-rimmed wheels, with a periodic renewal schedule.

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#27

Re: Trolley Car I Beam

06/19/2021 6:24 AM

flate rollers with bead wear: surely, modify to spheares! and use verticle axle guide rollers similar to that system crane builders use.

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#28

Re: Trolley Car I Beam

06/19/2021 11:42 AM

Looking at your setup I would think that with a turnaround point as sharp as that, it would be better to drive the outside wheel. For a starter irrespective of what way you go with the beams it may be an option to turn the cars around to accomodate the drive wheel on the long traveling path on the turning point. From you photos it seems that there is only one load bearing wheel on each side. A nearby photo of the load bearing wheels will help.

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