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Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/09/2021 12:33 PM

Earth/Global warming is not a figment of my imagination.

Lead author of IPCC climate report explains what the warnings mean

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#1

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/10/2021 1:43 PM

Wow. Nobody wishes to touch this thread and the thread gets pulled from the front page. I suppose the CR4 administration will claim a lack of activity merits removal from the front page.

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#3
In reply to #1

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/10/2021 4:23 PM

Its just all more of the same.

As Covid has clearly shown, even when people are dying all around you many people will still ignore an overwhelming amount of evidence and their own eyes for some fantasy they read online. Why would some facts from a reliable source have any effect on these people on an event like global warming that is gradually effecting our planet in relatively complex to understand and grasp ways (for the average person, in comparison to something like a virus)?

It will be the foolish minority of people that ruin the world for the rest of us. We will survive as a species, but a lot of people are probably going to die as a result, and like those who are dying in hospital of Covid being told that it is too late for the vaccine to help them it will be to late when global warming gets to a certain point that food production is seriously effected and we start to run out of resources society needs to continue its current way of life.

Dare I say it is inevatable? What else can we do to get through to people? Change is happening, but it appears to be too slow, but even a little change could perhaps go a long way in the future so regardless we should all not stop trying, even if it is just in our own personal way.

All just my (slightly rambling) personal opinion of course.

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#2

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/10/2021 4:02 PM

Well, now that this is back I'll add a relevant comment.

Global warming is not a figment nor a mirage. It has been measured numerous times with many different techniques. The good news is that we have identified the root cause of this temperature change to be humanity's activities. I say this is good news because this means we can change to stop this temperature climb. The bad news is that it will hurt to implement these changes.

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#4
In reply to #2

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/10/2021 8:00 PM

Fewer people.

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#5
In reply to #2

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/10/2021 8:30 PM

The bad news is that it will hurt to implement these changes.
True.

It appears that for some people they’ll do a token act of some minuscule part of reducing their carbon footprint, but more so really bitching to others ‘I told you so.’ They are just as much as part of the problem they bitch about.

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#7
In reply to #5

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/11/2021 7:49 PM

Even a "token act", as you say is better than total denial and the "Drill, Baby Drill" attitude of those (including your bunch) who would sacrifice their future grandchildren's health to the alter of profit.

But, many children will be dead already because of deadly anti-mask/vaccine mandates by, you guessed it, REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS. WHY? FOR the MONEY!

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/11/2021 8:09 PM

With the hate you have displayed, all it appears to do is make you feel better from just the hate you have bottled up than actually doing something about it other then preach that’ll actually make a difference.

GOP governors?… yet your silent on the (D) governors that are under investigations because of their corruption and greed. Take your liberal blinders off and stop denying.

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#11
In reply to #8

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/11/2021 9:51 PM

Don't bother us with your lies and "yes but Democrats did this BS." If you have nothing constructive to say, butt out!

You need help, cause you are ineffectual in delivering any counter points.

If the truth hurts you, it should.

Pleasant dreams.

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#13
In reply to #11

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/12/2021 2:23 AM

Says the self destruction guy himself. Look in your rearview mirror… only then will you claim ‘mission complete’.

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#22
In reply to #2

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/12/2021 4:35 PM

The assumption that global warming is caused by humans is misleading at best. The truth is the globe is warming, just as it did 50 million years ago, and 50 million years before that. The proof in what I say is in the FACT that you can find shark teeth high in the rocky mountains.

Yes the globe is warming, but it is very egotistical to think we can stop it, control it, or we (humans), are the cause of it.

No one will die of global warming, we're to smart for that, as the water rises, we'll just step back a bit. It's going to take about 1,000 years (give or take a weekend) before the temp peaks and it starts to cool again.

The panic over global warming is just politics, people want to be in charge and fear is the best motivator for people to want change. Thus the hype.

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#31
In reply to #22

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/14/2021 4:46 AM

"The assumption that global warming is caused by humans"

It is NOT an assumption. The basic science is unbelievably simple.

1.) Burning fossil fuels releases CO2 into the atmosphere. It takes decades to decrease under current conditions. (*)

2.) CO2 is a green house gas.

3.) Green house gasses cause the the global temperature to rise.

Which one of these three steps do you disagree with?

* The best way to control this may not be to stop burning fossil fuels, but to adopt Solar Eagles suggestion of growing more crops which fix carbon: hemp looks like the favourite, it has hundreds of uses.

"No one will die of global warming"

Haven't you been watching the news?

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#33
In reply to #31

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/14/2021 3:05 PM

Why do we have ice ages?

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#37
In reply to #33

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/15/2021 6:15 AM

I'm not sure why you're asking, and, I'm not going to insult your intelligence by providing a Google search for "Why do we have ice ages?" or showing you the Wikipedia page.

There are lots of cycles with positive and negative feedback involved. The problem is that we are in danger of breaking the cycle catastrophically:-

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#39
In reply to #37

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/15/2021 3:22 PM

Too many people reaching for a piece of cake.

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#40
In reply to #39

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/15/2021 4:04 PM

Some got back in line for seconds and thirds etc…

And it’s usually the same ones that projects their own transgressions onto others.

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#41
In reply to #40

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/16/2021 12:38 PM

And what proof do you have for this accusation? NONE!

You need psychological help. The pressure is too great for you here. You can't keep up.

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#42
In reply to #41

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/16/2021 3:34 PM

When it comes to needing psychological help, your history would dictate that you have great experience in blowing your head gasket, and slo g with being CR4’s resident blown head gasket expert.

That I can’t ignore it, I’ll consider it… I’ve considered it, and, no, no,… it’s not me that needs the help.

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#43
In reply to #42

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/16/2021 3:39 PM

So you do want this discussion closed.

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#6

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/11/2021 11:56 AM

xkcd comic has once again produced a relevant comic.

Even the scientists at Exxon recognized that fossil fuels drive global warming.

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#9
In reply to #6

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/11/2021 8:15 PM

And it was you that complained about googling posting information that like this.

any references,… from EXXON established this trend other than this cartoon

Or data itself to reflect this trend on this graph?

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/11/2021 8:56 PM

Why would I bother to post a link referencing when Exxon knew their product produced global warming. You'll deny any evidence actually exist, particularly from a respected journal that cites their references. Particularly any evidence that would be easy to Google.

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#12
In reply to #10

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/12/2021 2:18 AM

So no, you won’t post references from EXXON to support your cartoon… yet you’ll be the first one that would complains and ask for references.

I’m not going to google, it’s your cartoon you stand behind as fact.

So you have one standard for yourself, and another standard for people that would challenge you.

very lyn of you.

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#16
In reply to #12

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/12/2021 7:44 AM

I did just post references in reply #10 to support the cartoon's statement that Exxon knew their product results in global warming. You are just in such a blind rage that you cannot accept anything that disagrees with your preconceived ideas. The cartoon itself cites that the temperature data is from NOAA.

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#17
In reply to #16

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/12/2021 8:38 AM

That not Exxon, your cartoon said post Exxon.

so you’ll understand, the media has become hearsay, if your secondhand source like SA doesn’t list it’s actual source other then Exxon.

its similar to the overwhelming evidence we heard all last year to fill in the blank. and nothing, if your find with what you posted is satisfactory, I suggest you stop demanding references from others.

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#18
In reply to #17

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/12/2021 8:45 AM

The word "Exxon" in reply #10 has a hyperlink attached.

Oh, who am I kidding? You'll just continue to rage and rant until CR4 closes this thread for uncivilized activities, too. Cancel culture in full swing.

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/12/2021 8:53 AM

It only appears to rant and rage to you when all it is, is challenging you and you can’t.

SA did not reference their information/source, they just used a label an undisclosed anonymous source within EXXON. Basically the reason I stated in the previous post with all last year of any anonymous sources with in an fill in the blank organization

Other then the second hand claim where is EXXON claiming it’s true?, that is all I ask. If you can’t produce it, fine, just say so.

Again if your fine with what you have, don’t expect others to come up with reference from the origin and not second hand and heresy for you

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#20
In reply to #19

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/12/2021 9:23 AM

As I said, you're just going to continue to rant and rage until this thread is closed. SA in the article named the scientist that produced the internal to EXXON analysis in 1977. Even if I faxed you a notarized copy of the analysis I expect you will continue to rant and rage despite the Exxon letterhead at the top of the report.

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#14
In reply to #10

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/12/2021 2:53 AM

You can borrow this, if you need it

It doesn't remove all the stench but it helps.

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/12/2021 3:17 AM

↑ ↑ ↑ Personal hygiene tips from an expert. ↑ ↑ ↑

where everyone else would use regular deodorant, lyn personal odor needs a more industrial solution.

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#21

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/12/2021 10:56 AM

We are between Ice Ages 5 and 6. Ice Age 5 ended somewhere between 20 and 12 thousand years ago. I'm neither a scientist or engineer, but I would expect to see a warming trend after an Ice Age. Sort of like it is typically warmer in the northern hemisphere in March than it is in February. But sometimes we even get snow in May. And high 70's in December.

My kweshun is why; don't any of these "SCIENTISTS" "GAIA SOOTHSAYERS", or even reglar folks on this forum ever point to climate patterns 15000 years after Ice Age 1? How 'bout 2? Mebbe 3, OK the easy one, 4?

It's been awhile since I took statistics (as in lies, damned lies, and statistics... S.C.) but I recall that 1500 samples are needed to recreate the whole. Nielson of Nielson Ratings uses 9000 samples.

The oldest core sample is 75,000 years, and Ice Age 5 started 115,000 thousand y.a. How can any soothsayer say today's weather is not normal? What are they comparing it to? TV ratings are more accurate than anything IPCC has created.

Remember this quote "Their measurement had been sheer luck, or perhaps a case of knowing the result they wanted to get-not an uncommon occurrence in science" POTUS DJT. Not really

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#30
In reply to #21

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/14/2021 4:28 AM

"why; don't any of these "SCIENTISTS" "GAIA SOOTHSAYERS", or even reglar folks on this forum ever point to climate patterns 15000 years after Ice Age 1?"

You mean a pattern like this

From Skeptical Science

Do you see the problem? Temperature wise we should be on the way down, but, the recent surge in CO2 emissions is going to force the peak upward. Incidentally the last CO2 reading there is from 1965 at 320 ppm; we are now at over 400 ppm.

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#23

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/12/2021 5:03 PM

Now for the chart. We know that is misinformation at best or more commonly called a lie. It shows green house gases as a block about 3/4 of an inch thick. The common ones are methane and CO2 combined they make up less than 800 PPM. They show natural items as about the same amount. Therein lays the lie, first they don't mention them and second H2O is a natural greenhouse gas and it represents 40000 PPM, which if my math is correct, is a bit more than 800 PPM.

Gee, I wonder why they left that out???

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#24
In reply to #23

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/12/2021 5:53 PM

You are correct that many different gasses contribute to the greenhouse effect. The question isn't what greenhouse gasses are being put into the air. The question is what greenhouse being put into the air can increase their greenhouse effect?

Water vapor regularly reaches saturation levels from temperature levels inducing a phase state change. Water precipitates out of the atmosphere regularly. Therefore its greenhouse gas concentration and contribution cannot be increased. Increasing the water vapor levels will just cause this reversal to happen more often. In contrast, carbon dioxide and methane are nowhere near phase levels anywhere in our atmosphere. They will not precipitate out of the atmosphere. Methane has a relatively short half-life of 9.1 years from all mechanisms. (I believe most of those mechanisms are biological.) Carbon dioxide has a half-life in the atmosphere over 100 years. Increasing their concentrations increases the amount of their greenhouse effect.

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#32
In reply to #23

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/14/2021 4:55 AM

You are correct that water vapor is responsible for about 60% of the green house effect. Unfortunately warmer air carries more water vapor than cooler, so this just provides more positive feed back.

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#34
In reply to #32

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/14/2021 3:06 PM

Then we should have already died.

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#35
In reply to #34

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/14/2021 5:52 PM

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#38
In reply to #34

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/15/2021 6:22 AM

Redfred has already explained how the water vapor feedback is self regulating.

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#25

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/12/2021 11:03 PM

..."Today Earth is approaching another minimum of northern sunlight, so without human carbon dioxide emissions we would be heading into another ice age within the next 1,500 years or so."...

https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-earths-climate-changes-naturally-and-why-things-are-different-now-20200721/

..."Plants consume carbon dioxide—a significant greenhouse gas—in the process of photosynthesis. The reduction of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has an indirect cooling effect. Plants also cool the atmosphere because they release water vapor when they get hot, a process similar to sweating."...May 6, 2002

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/features/LAI/LAI2.php#:~:text=Plants%20consume%20carbon%20dioxide%E2%80%94a,a%20process%20similar%20to%20sweating

...."Earth has continued to grow green since the turn of the century and this could help moderate global warming, according to new maps released by the United States National Aeronautics and Space Administration's (NASA). ... NASA had in February 2019 established that earth was greener than it was in the 1980s."...Feb 18, 2020.

...."A significant increase in green cover in boreal and Arctic regions was observed in the new maps, which researchers attributed to rising temperatures. For example, Svalbard in the high-Arctic saw a 30 per cent increase in greenness, according to Rama Nemani of NASA’s Ames Research Center and co-author of review paper. The green cover grew with an increase in mean summer temperature from to 4.7° Celsius from 2.9° Celsius (37.2° to 40.5° Fahrenheit) between 1986 and 2015.

Authors of the paper reviewed more than 250 published articles and found that the global greening was due to increased levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. Interestingly, this phenomenon made earth cooler; as vegetation consumed carbon dioxide, it performed evapotranspiration. According to scientists, global greening since the early 1980s may have reduced global warming by as much as 0.2° to 0.25° Celsius."...

https://www.downtoearth.org.in/news/climate-change/earth-getting-greener-nasa-s-new-maps-confirm-69361#:~:text=Earth%20has%20continued%20to%20grow,and%20Space%20Administration's%20(NASA).&text=NASA%20had%20in%20February%202019,it%20was%20in%20the%201980s.

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#26
In reply to #25

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/13/2021 2:43 PM

Spaceship Earth certainly has many negative feedback loops. If it didn't, I doubt we would exist today.

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#27
In reply to #26

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/13/2021 5:15 PM

..."The global average and combined land and ocean surface temperature, show a warming of 0.85 [0.65 to 1.06] °C, in the period 1880 to 2012, based on multiple independently produced datasets. This gives a trend of 0.064 ± 0.015 °C per decade over that period."...

Seems the cooling is matching the warming....in any case I don't think anybody can say for sure who will win this horse race...my guess is that the lead will change hands several times over the next 2000 years...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumental_temperature_record

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#28
In reply to #25

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/13/2021 9:01 PM

From your source:

"Shilong Piao of Peking University, and lead author of the paper, said:"This greening and associated cooling is beneficial, but reducing carbon emissions is still needed in order to sustain the habitability of our planet."

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#29
In reply to #28

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/13/2021 10:57 PM

I agree and nuclear power is the answer....

..."After the world has spent a few trillion dollars over the last ten years trying to decarbonize, $503 billion in 2020 alone, carbon emissions are still increasing. Even as the pandemic slowed that growth for a bit during 2020-2021, emissions in 2022-2023 will break all records and exceed 55 billion tons/year by more than a little.

According to the International Energy Agency, global electricity demand will increase by 5% in 2021 and 4% in 2022, and half of this increase will be from fossil fuels, particularly new coal in the developing world. CO2 emissions from the power sector will rise to record levels in 2022, exceeding 34 billion tons.

After dropping 4% in 2020, nuclear power generation is forecast to grow, but only by 1% in 2021. This is one important reason why carbon emissions will grow so much during this period."...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2021/07/23/whats-happening-global-emissions-are-still-rising/?sh=3df39eb577ec

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#36

Re: Denial Is Still A River in Egypt

08/15/2021 12:34 AM

CO2; its about much more than just climate.

A continuing human evolution requires an understanding of, and then action regarding the rate of change in partial pressures of four atmospheric gases; H2O, CO2, O2, and N2.
H2O because of the positive thermal feed back loop it forms with rising planetary temperature.
CO2, in addition to its affect on atmospheric IR opacity, becomes important at low concentrations because Animalia respiration requires it to be offloaded into its surrounding partial pressure (atmosphere) or molar concentration (ocean). The higher those values are in the surrounding environment the higher the internal cell concentration must be to support an equal rate of gas transfer; and therefor, rate of cellular respiration. The atmosphere partial pressure of CO2 has increased by over 50 percent since the industrial revolution. This requires a proportional increase of CO2 internal to the cell to sustain the same rate of cellular respiration given the same cell membrane constructs.
O2 and N2 because they are measurable and finite consumables that power life on this little space ship. A sustained human evolution requires that human consumption and natural weathering of those two gases be matched or exceeded by our planet's rate of regeneration of those two gases or we become extinct; taking most other forms of Animalia with us.
Because of scale, I am confident Homo sapiens' only hope for a continuing evolution lies with our ability to stabilize the partial pressure of those four gases by rebuilding the natural processes that moderate our planet’s chemistry; and we are going to need every bit of human resource we can muster to do it.

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