First Omicron science

"Science"? No, opinion!

I didn't see any verifiable evidence of vetting, verification of the information, presented.This is not science. It is an opinion piece.

Most importantly, it does nothing to address the millions of people who will become infected (no matter the strain) and furter OVERLOAD FIRST RESPONDERS, HOSPTIALS AND MEDICAL STAFF all because of ignorance.

We all know whats' happening. People are dying!

And how many of those deaths are attributed to the Omicron variant, that is rapidly replacing all others? Two? Three? At what point do you ratchet down the fear mongering?

You have now convinced me to at last leave what I though was an engineering community based on logic and science.

...."Omicron is not killing people"...

"Dec. 21, 2021 -- Health officials in Texas have announced the state’s first COVID-19 death related to the Omicron variant. It may be the first Omicron death in the U.S.

The unvaccinated man in his 50s had been infected with COVID-19 previously and tested positive for the Omicron variant before his death."...

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20211221/unvaccinated-texas-man-omicron-death

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/12/18/7-deaths-from-omicron-covid-19-coronavirus-variant-in-uk-showing-its-not-the-omicold/?sh=157b32962023

https://www.vox.com/22839742/omicron-covid-19-winter-surge-vaccine-booster-forecast

You shouldn't judge the whole forum on the basis of one or two outliers.

Re: "Who are you to decide for others?" You are exactly correct! Are you ready to accept the responsibility for infecting others, some of whom will die? It's your decision!

'Are you ready to accept the responsibility for infecting others, some of whom will die? It's your decision!"

Are you saying vaccinated people do not spread the virus? If so, that is very naive.

IQ

Your point is valid, but potentially misleading. Anyone who has contracted the disease can spread it to others--most likely if not wearing a mask. However the contact tracing that has been done has shown that the large majority of people who test positive for the disease have not been vaccinated. Furthermore, most of the "super spreader events", particularly those with smaller or more intimate groups, have occurred when an unmasked infected person was present.

I think it is reasonable, legal, and even morally required for a Christian to wear a mask when in close proximity to others if they have not been vaccinated. This is because they have a much greater likelihood of being infected even though they may not know it at that time.

--JMM

If the world follows S. Africa, Omicron is quickly going to change this conversation. The Omicron wave is already in decline there. It appears to be in the final stage of burning through the population, in which only 40% are vaccinated, and caused very few hospitalizations and deaths. If Dr. Robert Malone is correct, this will result in a robust natural acquired immunity in the population. By the end of January the rest of the world will be where S. Africa is now, and all of the current conflict between vaccinated and unvaccinated will be passe and irrelevant. I predict that governments, the press, the big pharmaceuticals, will attempt to keep the hysteria going past the point where it is obvious to everyone that the pandemic has ended, but reality will finally be impossible to ignore even by them.

I hope Malone is right, but I wouldn't bet on it. We'll see in a few months.

Dr. Robert Malone, developer of the mRNA vaccine technology, disagrees with you. From an interview four days ago: "This is fear mongering on the part of the press. The number of deaths from Omicron worldwide is less than ten at my last count. If you believe in a God, this looks like a Christmas present. To the experienced vaccinologist, Omicron looks like a attenuated live virus vaccine that you might design for purpose. It is going to illicit a strong mucosal immune response. This is about as good as we could possibly want right now in terms of outcomes. I think they (media and government) are disappointed with the good news."

7,000 people are dying every day from the covid viruses....that's 49,000 a week and nearly a quarter million a month....it's far from over as you would have us think...it ain't over till it's over, every time there is a dip everyone say's it's over, then it comes roaring back mainly because of people that think like you do....It's not often you can potentially save thousands of lives by taking 10 min out of your day to do something that costs nothing....and you refuse to lift a hand....you should be ashamed of yourself...

"Fatality rate of 0.027% would get Omicron FDA approval. Omicron is better than Pfizer or Moderna." That's a good joke.

Even the 0.027% fatality rate is probably overblown. As Dr. John Campbell states, it has not been reported if the deaths in the UK are from Omicron or with Omicron. Also, the data shows that Omicron cases are not stacked on top of Delta cases. Omicron is, at breakneck speed, replacing Delta. It is all good news. The symptoms are indistinguishable from the common cold, and will provide robust naturally acquired immunity as it burns through the world's population. And you keep shouting, "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!"

And what is .027% of 8 billion people?

Considerably less than the mortality from Delta if 8 billion were vaccinated. Also, as I have already pointed out, even the .027% figure is probably overblown because the death count lumps those who died with Omicron and those who died from Omicron together. In other words, someone who dies of cancer and also has Omicron, is included in the Omicron death count. You seem to consider it grounds for hysteria if the mortality rate is anything above zero. It will never be zero. Time to end the fear mongering and get on with our lives.

After watching the video it is clear there was science as well as opinion. My estimate was 80% science, 20% opinion. In any case you have been give good advice. So get off your high horse and into your low bed. The video was useful for people not too cynical to read and ingest it.

Your last sentence says "because of ignorance." No, it's because of politics. Some people in the government of one party prohibit doctors from using some medicines that are known to work. That's why people are dying.

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"You could make a difference: donate your lungs to science. No need to die first."

You are insane!

Thank you for the video by Dr. Campbell on the Omicron strain. It was very informative and coming from a doctor in the UK, less likely to be influenced by politics. I also watched some of Dr. Campbell's other videos on vitamins, etc.

Haymaker, in post #14 writes that "the vaccine allows infected people to spread the virus month after month, allowing great numbers of mutations". Apparently, other CR4 members don't want to hear this and have voted his post off the board. Dr. Robert Malone, developer of the mRNA vaccine technology goes even further than Haymaker. He says that since the vaccinated, when infected, present milder symptoms, they are more likely to go out in public while infected than the unvaccinated, thereby becoming super-spreaders. He has also warned of these "leaky" vaccines causing Antibody Dependent Enhancement - actually driving the formation of more virulent strains. Recently, Dr. Malone issued a statement vigorously advising parents not to permit their children to have the vaccine because of the grave risks the vaccine poses to their health, and that the possible harm is permanent and untreatable. Even he, in this climate of hysteria, has been branded a crackpot.

In my post #3 I quote Dr. John Campbell's statement that the Omicron variant, which is rapidly displacing all other variants, presents very mild symptoms, with a runny nose and headache being the two main symptoms. In other words, indistinguishable from a minor cold. Apparently other CR4 members don't want to hear that factual information either, and have voted my comment off the board.

It is clear that the vaccinated believe they are holier than others. It is only common sense that even those vaccinated can spread the virus. Afterall, the vaccine is only experimental for now and not a true vaccine. It has a shelf life when in ones body.

It is as useful as a trap door in a canoe.

And it is time for people to accept there are two sides to a coin, with an edge. Where in history have you heard of the governments offering payments, holidays and other bribes to people to get vaccinated.

If you want a vaccination, get one or three, if you don't want a vaccination, that is fine too. But to shun people and make them feel guilty for not taking a vaccine, (your friends and neighbours) is shameful. You create the Them & Us.

Listening to Dr. Malone's thoughts about Omicron, a very possible outcome of Omicron rapidly burning through the world's population, is an acquired natural immunity for almost all, with few lives lost. Omicron could do what the vaccines have failed to do. This is not good news for the pharmaceuticals, nor for power hungry politicians, but it is good news for everyone else.

If we had followed your advise, our children would still be getting polio and smallpox...

https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/disease-eradication

Why are you telling people not to get vaccinated? My high horse seems a lot safer than yours....

Just this year the Canadian government introduced a Vaccine Injury Compensation Program. I don't think there is anything coincidental about the timing.

In Dr. Robert Malone's recent warning to parents, he emphatically states that the health risk of the vaccine to your child is far greater than the health risk of contracting the virus. He is credited with developing mRNA vaccine technology. If my children were young, I would follow his advice, not yours.

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/robert-malone-vaccine-inventor-vaccine-skeptic/619734/

The linked article argues throughout that Dr. Robert Malone's motivation is self-aggrandization. I am unpersuaded. Dr. Malone has said that his decision to speak out was not taken lightly. He said that he knew it would negatively affect his vaccine development consultancy practice, but knowing what he knows about mRNA vaccines, he could not in good conscience remain silent.

Uh-huh.

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Thanks for providing this important summary.

Comment on your last sentence: Information that can change as further data and experience educates us. Why do our leaders get blamed when the information/data has done the changing? We ought to thank them for keeping up-to-date.

What's all this talk of fear? Nobody is afraid, they are just thoughtful...and thankful for the rapid development of a vaccine...concern for the health of our people is universal, even you seem to be concerned for the health of the people, you think vaccines are harmful and we think they are helpful, that's the difference....you can try to spin it any way you want, but that's what it comes down to....It seems to me you are a bad player with an agenda that does not serve the people well...

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/robert-malone-vaccine-inventor-vaccine-skeptic/619734/

..."Today’s mRNA jabs have innovations that were invented years after Malone’s time in the lab, including chemically modified RNA and different types of fat bubble to ferry them into cells (see ‘Inside an mRNA COVID vaccine’). Still, Malone, who calls himself the “inventor of mRNA vaccines”, thinks his work hasn’t been given enough credit. “I’ve been written out of history,” he told Nature."

I suspect this Malone fellow has a bone to pick...It's clear he thinks he should have been given all the credit...nutjob

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02483-w

No, not at all. I have an issue with the so called claiming a miracle and imposing their ideals on everyone and anyone who thinks differently is a lunatic or severe burden to those who think they have the answer to this bug. Especially government getting the vaccinated person backing when indeed the governments cannot even get the figure right of how many vaccines they have administered. Your very own CDC cannot count so how can we trust anything they state as fact?

If you say it is thoughtful, why then can thoughtfulness not be applied to those who do not want your vaccine. They have their reasons and you should respect that, not exclude them from public places as if the have leprosy. What have you to far of someone who is not vaccinated?

It's your government who paid for this virus to be developed in China. Of course this will be vehemently denied. Sooner or later the truth will come out and it will point, no doubt, to your clever boys messing up the entire world and innocent people lives.

https://nypost.com/2021/10/21/nih-admits-us-funded-gain-of-function-in-wuhan-despite-faucis-repeated-denials/

The sooner the truth is outed and facts provided, the better. There would be no need for vaccines if your lot had been thoughtful from the beginning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpwSYQelMEg

I trust the vaccinated and un-vaccinated had a lovely Xmas.

I trust the vaccinated and un-vaccinated had a lovely Xmas.

We did. Thank. Hope you did also.

And, oh, yes. We weigh in as un-vaxxed. Had the bug (s ), bought immunity, don't need the vax.

Thanks to our Lord (it IS Christmas. I think we might acknowledge Him) we all survived the getting of the natural immunity.

Thanks to our Lord (it IS Christmas. I think we might acknowledge Him) we all survived the getting of the natural immunity.

Some survived, some didn't. Could this be another plague as in Egypt many centuries ago?

Might be. Of course the question then is who is enslaved, such that God is demanding release?

Yep. OUR government did it. And some of us look forward to seeing them off the throne, and replaced by responsible adults. Hope springs eternal. Not wisely, perhaps, but eternally, none the less.

What have you to far of someone who is not vaccinated?

Getting COVID-19, of course, since no vaccine is 100% effective.

Getting COVID-19, of course, since no vaccine is 100% effective

Lovely. It is NOT? And you insist I take it, to protect you? Please, quarantine yourself. We won't mind.

And IF we die of it, all the vaxxed can then UNquarantine themselves and MAYBE you'll survive.

But not if the vaxine is LESS effective than my hard won natural immunity. Which, BTW, will keep me from getting it and thus KEEP ME FROM INFECTING YOU

Tornado linked the same article in post #48, and I replied in post #49.

You suggest that poster IQ is "a bad player with an agenda". The publisher of the article you linked better fits that description. It was funded by the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative (this disclosure at the end of the article). That's Mark Zuckerberg of FaceBook fame - the social media platform that censors and 'fact checks' any covid-19 vaccine information that conflicts with big pharma's interests.

The article is titled, "The vaccine scientist spreading vaccine misinformation". It opens with this sentence, "Dr. Robert Malone recently suggested that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines might actually make covid-19 infections worse." It goes on to describe the apparent glee of Malone and Steve Bannon, the interviewer, at this revelation. Then, in summary of the exchange between Malone and Bannon, the article dismisses it all as "misinformation". Dr. Malone was referring to Antibody Dependent Enhancement whereby a virus will evolve to escape 'leaky' vaccines, like the current covid-19 vaccines. Look it up. It is not 'misinformation'. Among vaccinologists it is a known phenomenon, as Malone stated in the interview. I did not observe any expression of glee on Malone's face as he explained this, nor on Bannon's face as he received it. I have never seen Malone exhibiting glee in any of his interviews, and I have watched a few. In his recent warning to parents about the danger these mRNA vaccines pose to childrens' health, his tone and expression is best described as grave. By my assessment, it is the article, not Malone, that is guilty of spreading misinformation.

And of course, all the vaxxers agenda's are correct and anyone who disagrees is relegated to the outside as an 'undesirable'. Hey, good news for you, I have been vaxxed, and it was a HUGE mistake.

I was healthier with covid, (twice), than I am now. Issuing your foolish advice like sweets is stupidity beyond a doubt. Leave people to decide for themselves, you made your choice, I was pushed into mine by fools like yourself. And now I pay the price.

You are selfish people and damned thoughtless towards others. And you want to be termed a Christian and thoughtful. Get over yourself!

Get a mirror.

Humour. No not allowed. I heard it was on the restriction list along with joy and mirth.

Enjoy your season to be jolly. And to all of you, HAVE A FANTASTICALLY FAR BETTER NEW YEAR.

Remember: WHO gives a jab in the arm.

I'm sick of all this bickering. <unsubscribe>