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In a Power Out Emergency...

10/26/2023 7:45 PM

In a power outage emergency... I am contemplating the wisdom/stupidity of an emergency connection between a basic 120/240 v generator and my house electrical system.

In order to avoid the hazard of extension cords from the generator to the refrigerator and other priority areas I am considering ways to 1) Isolate my house from the normal supply and 2) Use existing house wiring to provide minimal draw service (Lighting, Laptop/Phone charging, and refrigeration) inside the secured house.

My first thought would be to pull my electric meter (Providing isolation) and with a custom cord with heavy duty clamps (welding service) connect generator 220 v output to the house side of the meter base. The intent being to provide 110 / 220 v to the whole house (unless I forget to shut off the water heater and trip the generator breaker...)

My second thought would be to isolate a branch circuit (kitchen / refrigeration) by shutting off its breaker and using a custom male-to-male cord, plug generator 110 v output into an outlet on the 110 v branch circuit. The intent being to provide only 110 v only to the branch (until I forget and try the toaster and air fryer and trip the generator breaker...)

My final thought would be to isolate the house by shutting off the main breakers and with a custom cord connect a dedicated 220 v welder outlet in the garage to the generator 220 v output. The intent being to provide 110 / 220 v to the whole house (unless I forget to shut off the water heater...) BUT current feed would be backwards through the welder circuit breaker...

I consider the probability of actually needing to do this as pretty low. I also understand that the permissible (permittable?) way to provide whole-house electric service is having a licensed electrician install an isolator panel and a power inlet box. The cost to do this, weighed against the risk of needing it, is a non-starter leading back to extension cords through unlocked doors/windows.

Comments on safety/stupidity of the NOT RECOMMENDED options 1, 2, or 3?

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#1

Re: In a Power Out Emergency...

10/26/2023 8:14 PM

As you are asking these questions, I suggest you hire an electrician to provide a buss transfer. This provides insurance that you will not parallel with the "shore" side, saving your generator. It also prevents you from backfeeding into the grid. As for generator(s) you might need two. One that powers the house and a smaller one of the inverter type. The inverter must be never be connected to the house, only through extension cords. Inverter type place 60 volts on the neutral (return) and hot lead. If you ground this you will destroy the inverter part. A 5 KW or so uses a great deal of fuel. Where the inverter type will use less than gallon a day.

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#2

Re: In a Power Out Emergency...

10/26/2023 8:26 PM

I've done this several times, just install a 2 way knife switch that isolates the main lines coming in and connects the generator to the house...make a wire heavy enough to handle the current of the generator and make a male to male adapter plug in for connecting to the switch...You'll need to install a receptacle wired into one end of the switch.....and the incoming mains to the other end, the middle to the main panel....get an amp probe and test the circuits you want to use during the power outage and size your generator accordingly...or if you already have a generator, mark which breakers power what and what they draw for current, keeping your total load below generator 75% load...now for starting larger A/C units they have soft starters that can be installed...not cheap, but works...and can possibly work with a smaller generator...

https://www.amazon.com/Double-Throw-Knife-Disconnect-Switch/dp/B07MK5K916

This system installed properly makes it impossible to tie the generator into the incoming mains...

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#4
In reply to #2

Re: In a Power Out Emergency...

10/26/2023 8:42 PM

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: In a Power Out Emergency...

10/26/2023 8:43 PM

That’s similar how we have the hook-up at the farm.

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#13
In reply to #2

Re: In a Power Out Emergency...

10/28/2023 11:16 PM

Hi Folks, I strongly advise against a male to male lead for this purpose, as this poses a serious electrical safety risk. A male to male lead is also known as a suicide lead, for obvious reasons. An approved generator changeover switch should be used to isolate the mains from the grid, and a suitable inlet socket for connecting the generator. Definitely consult with a licensed electrician.

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: In a Power Out Emergency...

10/29/2023 2:55 AM
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#15
In reply to #14

Re: In a Power Out Emergency...

10/29/2023 7:45 AM

I’ve always felt, no matter how idiot proof you make something, a better idiot is produced to prove it wrong.

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: In a Power Out Emergency...

10/29/2023 2:01 PM

Ha ha, yeah true,,, this is definitely the Cadillac setup here....It's like the further away you site the generator to reduce the noise, the more likely it is to get stolen...everything is a tradeoff...

Just hang a sign on it, and let the cards fall where they may...

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#17
In reply to #16

Re: In a Power Out Emergency...

10/29/2023 5:27 PM

This is my favorite…

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#18
In reply to #16

Re: In a Power Out Emergency...

10/29/2023 8:27 PM

I always liked the sign for the sub-station:

DANGER DO NOT ENTER

NOT ONLY WILL THE ENERGY IN THE ENCLOSURE KILL YOU IT WILL HURT REALLY BAD EVERY SECOND YOU ARE DYING

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#3

Re: In a Power Out Emergency...

10/26/2023 8:40 PM

On the farm we had a portable generator ran of the tractors PTO that can hook up by our transformer, (disconnecting it from the service first)

Last spring, I was doing some work off site, I purchased a 9500 watt generator, from all places, Harbor Freight. I thought it was a great investment… so far.

I bought a one use 40’ high cube shipping container that I’m making into a temporary shop. I plan on using this for a short term fix, as I build another Garden shed and a shop.

so, ask me in a few years for a update.

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#6

Re: In a Power Out Emergency...

10/27/2023 12:38 PM

I would get it professionally installed. If there is any way for your generator to energize the utility lines, the step-down transformer serving your house will step-up the voltage back to the distribution lines, possibly killing the workers trying to restore service.

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#12
In reply to #6

Re: In a Power Out Emergency...

10/28/2023 7:31 PM

Safety for the folks trying to fix it for real is ABSOLUTELY THE/MY FIRST CONCERN!!!

But your reminder may keep somebody else not as concerned for EVERYONE'S safety from making a deadly mistake. Thank you!

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#21
In reply to #6

Re: In a Power Out Emergency...

11/01/2023 5:33 PM

Not that I want to minimize the potential danger to utility workers, but if you were to backfeed your neighborhood with your generator, how long would it be before your generator hits overload and goes off-line?

Prudent utility workers will put shunts to ground on the lines being repaired for many good reasons, this one not withstanding.

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#22
In reply to #21

Re: In a Power Out Emergency...

11/13/2023 7:57 AM

I think it is best to buy a complete system with the transfer relays and have it installed by a professional.

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#7

Re: In a Power Out Emergency...

10/27/2023 4:43 PM

The best way is to install a change-over switch.

What engineers familiar with electrical wiring do and those non-practitioners do are different.

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#8

Re: In a Power Out Emergency...

10/28/2023 6:28 AM

The way I see it all that is needed is a changeover contactor, the coil of which is fed through a time delay relay connected to the incoming mains after the metering.

Normally the contactor is energised and connects the mains to the house distribution board. When the incoming supply fails the contactor drops out connecting the generator output to the house distribution board and closing auxiliary contacts to initiate an autostart of the generator. The generator can be connected via a socket to a plug to the backup contacts.

The generator is permanently wired or plug and socketed to the normally open contacts of the contactor. The timer ensures that the mains are well established before the changeover from backup to mains supply. The timer can be set to give the generator a decent run time once initiated.

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: In a Power Out Emergency...

10/28/2023 9:54 AM

I do like a manual switchover. As long as someone is there to pull the switch from the manual switch, and then engage the generator.

In our case on a farm, as long as someone is there to do the switch. The reason why, when we were away for a day, and by that I mean, cows were milked in the morning, animals fed and taking over, we left for the even later in the morning and back by mid afternoon. This is rare, and it may promote for automatic switch over, but it’s a matter of justifying. How often does it happen, it was rarely.

But the way the electrical grid will be strained,… and with the EV transportation being pushed through, failure will happen more often and it may be justified.

just with the power off for a short time, where drinking water for the animals wasn’t available, has a huge effect on milk production. Better sit tight folks… and have your pantry’s stocked,

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#10

Re: In a Power Out Emergency...

10/28/2023 12:36 PM

Do not use the dildo-of-death male-male cable!

Use an infeed receptical AND an interlock between the mains and genset.

Plus, you have to modify your genset and remove the neutral to ground tie, AND you have to connect the genset ground to a ground rod.

There is lots of info out there on the hows and whys but in short:

1. You must disconnect the mains power first, lock it off, and then unlock the genset breaker and turn it on.

2. You must not have neutral-ground bonding anywhere other than the mains panel.

3. The genset if portable is bonded under the end cap and this bond MUST be disconnected to use as a feed into the mains panel or you break rule 2.

4.You must ground the genset where it is running so it does not carry any charge at that end of the conductors or you can end up with the genset floating a charge on it.

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#11

Re: In a Power Out Emergency...

10/28/2023 3:22 PM

I use two extension double male cords into two outlets in the house that happen to be on either side of the panel, after tripping the main breaker. Either 120V outlet on my Coleman generator has half of the 220V supply. Plug in the cords, then start the generator. Then I watch for the neighbor lights to come on, or run the fuel tank dry, flip the generator breaker off, then try the main breaker.

About once every 6 years or so, the power is off long enough so the refrigerator would thaw. Generator 4kW from 1986 or so, used 5 or 6 times for a tank of fuel or two.

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#19

Re: In a Power Out Emergency...

11/01/2023 2:58 AM

I'm assuming you're from the US, based on the 120/240V statement, so I cannot advise. Over here, we've got a serious amount of "loadshedding" (or planned rotational blackouts) due to our single nationwide utility being up to no good. Many people have done similar things, with a few dying due to incorrect wiring, inadequate or zero earthing / earth leakage device bypassed, etc. Apart from having to deal with the emotional effect of dealing with the fact that you effectively killed your child/mother/friend, they can now be charged with the equivalent of involuntary manslaughter and contraventions of the Occupational Healt & Safety Act. And if there is an electrical fire, zero payout from insurance. As always, all is good until it is not.

Bottom line for me: I'll make my plans, get my ideas sorted, make some drawings, and then finalise my plans with an appropriately licensed electrician and have the electrician sign off and certify the installed system. Peace of mind.

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#20

Re: In a Power Out Emergency...

11/01/2023 8:32 AM

Provided the <...house electrical system...> is isolated from the <...normal supply...>, starting the <...generator...> is not an issue as there is no risk to local repair workers. One merely runs round and isolates those loads that are not needed before starting it; that's what switches and breakers are for.

The <...first thought...> and the <...final thought...> fill this reader with dread. The reason is that, in the UK, mains plugs are fused to a maximum of 13A (enabling a little over 3kVA to be drawn), thereby limiting the size of the cables used, the fault current delivered, the size of the generator needed, and the risk of becoming unpopular with the <...house...>'s fire insurance provider. The <...second thought...> has been successful here, being an emergency application to enable the contents of a domestic deep-freezer to remain deeply frozen when applied at intervals during a local power outage of about a week (The Great Storm, 1987).

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