Previous in Forum: Order Your Robo-Guitar   Next in Forum: What do you call the network coverage test software?
Close
Close
Close
53 comments
Anonymous Poster

Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/09/2008 5:39 PM

Is it possible for american/european engineers to go and live in India and work there if they can't get work here? Would you have to learn their country or do they use english? I am talking about going there to do outsourced work. Would it be a problem to get a job there?

I am not only taking about India but all the countries in Asia where the work gets outsourced.

Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Anonymous Poster
#1

Re: going to India etc. for work

01/09/2008 5:45 PM

Learning their language, sorry for writing country, I wrote the question in a hurry.

Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Weaponology - Cardio-7

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 621
Good Answers: 10
#15
In reply to #1

Re: going to India etc. for work

01/11/2008 8:56 AM

Learning their country is also acceptable. One would like to know something about the people, the government, the major cities, language and dialects, etc. My experience is that most educated people in Asian countries speak or understand English, with the possible exception of the elderly. The Philippines, for example, teach most college subjects in English, which is an official as well as a business language there. I'd check re job availability though. Places like Japan, India, China... there are a lot of people looking for jobs, but some countries don't have a big pool of educated, degreed engineers, etc. One place to start checking is the embassy of your country in India, etc. You can also check with companies that have major offices in Asian countries, such as UPS, Fed Ex, etc.

Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 30338
Good Answers: 818
#2

Re: going to India etc. for work

01/10/2008 4:23 AM

A number of prominent American companies have a strong presence in Asia, though there are other nations' companies there as well.

  • In 1999 an American water treatment engineering company <name withheld> was active in Singapore for a Client that specialised in silicon wafer fabrication <name withheld>, working via an international civil contracting company <name withheld> in the construction of a substantial ultrapure water facility. English was the working language and the language of documentation, though locals used local languages for convenience between themselves when informal communication was needed.
  • In 2007 a South Korean company <name withheld> was constructing an oil platform for a Russian Client <name withheld> using local labour and Engineers drafted in from the UK, Australia and New Zealand, among other places. English was used as the working language between the Russian Engineer working on the potable water maker and the South Korean technicians commissioning it.

Does that help?

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Reply
2
Guru
Safety - ESD - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - Amateur Astronomer Technical Fields - Technical Writing - Writer India - Member - Regular CR4 participant Engineering Fields - Optical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: 18 29 N 73 57E
Posts: 1388
Good Answers: 31
#3

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/10/2008 10:53 PM

I am from India, so my information is first hand.

English is no problem at all here in India, at least in cities. Cuntryside, English may not be understood. In fact all written transactions of all companies take place in English only.

Many US / Europen companies have strong presence in India. Standard of living is not as high as US. It is much cheaper to live in India, but on the other hand you will not get salary as high as in US probably.

People are not hostile except some troubled pockets.

Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Power-User
Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member Technical Fields - Architecture - New Member

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Bangalore India
Posts: 288
Good Answers: 3
#4
In reply to #3

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/10/2008 11:04 PM

many American,British and German engineers are working in India in fact an American citizen is working in my company as VP Marketing for last three years who is an ex US Navy deck hand.

crm

__________________
Run silent run deep
Reply
Anonymous Poster
#5

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/10/2008 11:52 PM

why cant you get a job here?

Reply Score 2 for Off Topic
Guru
Canada - Member - New Member Hobbies - Musician - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 1863
Good Answers: 39
#6
In reply to #5

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/11/2008 12:49 AM

you are joking, right? Ever hear of outsourcing?

When I complained to my boss that I had not received the last three paychecks, he told me that I could be replaced by an engineer from India for a monthly salary equivalent to two days pay for me.

Meanwhile these greedy bosses still expect to sell their products into the first world market at inflated prices. Who do they expect to have any disposable income, when they have totally eliminated all the good paying jobs which creates the affluent class of people with disposable income?

The price these business owners demand for their product is way beyond the means of third world country middle class.

__________________
Elnav
Reply
Guru
Canada - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 632
Good Answers: 11
#7
In reply to #6

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/11/2008 4:45 AM

Does your boss (ex I hope) still have all limbs attached?

__________________
''What the hell has my a** got to do with magic?" Don Quixote
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 867
Good Answers: 11
#12
In reply to #6

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/11/2008 7:29 AM

Amen to that my Canadian brother!

When I got laid off from a large american copier company <name withheld> it took me 16 months to find a new position in Rochester. I actually did explore the idea of moving to India but the family complications made this more difficult than I cared to take on.

I finally found a position that paid 75% of my previous salary, not counting the drop in health benefits. After two years I was able to give myself a raise by switching to a new position.

My brother-in-law was laid off 13 months ago and still hasn't found local work. You pretty much have to leave upstate NY to find a decent job any more.

I'd like to work in India. It would be a lot of fun.

__________________
Eric
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
3
Guru
Engineering Fields - Retired Engineers / Mentors - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brecksville, OH
Posts: 1604
Good Answers: 18
#19
In reply to #6

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/11/2008 10:55 AM

Well said. I have often wondered who will ultimately buy the products produced in the Third World when the high paying jobs are eliminated in the US. [The economic health of any nation is directly proportional to the amount of goods it produces and can sell.] As we move to a service economy in the US, there may be full employment, but the salary for convenience store workers isnt equivalent to mill or factory workers and for good reason (they dont produce anything).

Right now, the lawyers and doctors are making good money, but that will stop soon. Notice that numerous new well-equipped hospitals are being built in India, Thailand, etc.; shortly, if not already, the Health Insurers will be sending patients there for surgeries and recovery because hospitals refuse to control their costs.

We also know that once there are fewer well paying jobs, the ambulance chasers and legal profession in general will drop as a major field of endeavor.

The bankers and insurance companies dont produce anything either, except messes such as the foreclosures from improper loan financing (which relates again back to people losing out because of job outsourcing) and the health care debacle (largely insurance company driven: until health care insurance came on the scene in the USA, we had much better health care).

__________________
"Consensus Science got us into this mess, then why can't it get us out?" : Rephrase of Will Rogers Comment
Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mumbai, India
Posts: 1985
Good Answers: 25
#8

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/11/2008 4:46 AM

In my company where I worked for 33 years we had a German Engineer who worked with us for 10 years. Ofcourse he had liked our climate as he had back problem which used get agrivated in cold winter of Germany.He went back to enjoy his retirement benefits. He had developed culture which still remains and had improved working of our company. So it is two way benefit. We have international community in different parts of India. We have 9 percent growth and cost of living is much cheaper.Language is not a problem as Britisher have ruled our country for 200 years. Everyone is welcome to our great country India.

__________________
"Engineers should not look for jobs but should create jobs for others" by Dr.Radhakrishnan Ex President of India during my college graduation day
Reply
Guru
Canada - Member - New Member

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 632
Good Answers: 11
#9

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/11/2008 4:47 AM

Would be a great way to travel, besides this immersion would probably help your employability.

__________________
''What the hell has my a** got to do with magic?" Don Quixote
Reply
2
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Dominican Republic
Posts: 278
Good Answers: 10
#10

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/11/2008 6:44 AM

I packed up and went to the Dom. Rep. where they were doing some contract assembly for us. That was 20 years ago and i'm still here.

A little advise no matter where you go:

Learn the language, At least make an attempt.

Learn about the area, the people and their customs.

pay attention to thier customs, lots of places you just can't pick up a girl and go out!

Learn the traffic laws and graft system if any.

On weekends get out and travel around and enjoy the place! Thats why your there.

My 2 cents

Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Systems Engineering - New Member Hobbies - Model Rocketry - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Long.92E,Lat.26N
Posts: 1336
Good Answers: 14
#11

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/11/2008 7:09 AM

I suggest you apply and get job first-and then proceed on assignment.

Apply to Indian companies which are already doing a lot of business in your country,

Or to TNCs who have headqurters in your country and earning a lot from India .

Language is never a problem.

Reply
Anonymous Poster
#13

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/11/2008 8:08 AM

You have to be prepared to work for $10/hr vs. $40/hr for the same type of job. Standard cost of living is significantly lower. Especially healthcare is significantly cheaper. Think also about your family, it will be a lot of sacrifice for them.

Reply
Anonymous Poster
#14

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/11/2008 8:52 AM

Each country/culture has it's own bag of tricks, tips, working with people and getting things done. If you are in a position to move to any other country for some time, it'll certainly help you in getting to know as to how to deal with the local people and more importantly in getting things done. You will also end with good knowledge of what is possible and what is not in a reasonable period of time.

In India, for example, getting things done is not as streamlined as in the western world. we have our own ways of "doing" things many of which would probably make a lot of people in your neck of the woods baulk at the very idea.

If you were to go to any other "cheap factory for the world" so as to speak, you would get to know how to get things done. In the course of time, with the experience you gather you may be able to go back to your own country and become a sort of "liason" person to deal with entities in that particular country and your own.

Certainly a step up in the ladder after you've returned to your own country.

Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 89
Good Answers: 1
#16

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/11/2008 9:57 AM

I have some actual experience in Taiwan and China only a year old. The problem of finding a job overseas is who is hiring?? If you have a specific knowledge they need you can get a decent pay but still much lower than US. The people are great to work with, but not the bosses they want a lot for very little pay. An engineer will get $15,000 or less. Why should they pay you when they can get engineers from other countries such as Philippines (English speaking) for even less than that. They are used to living cheap and sending money home. Just like Mexicans in the US but the Mexicans usually do not have a skill or trade. Remember how the Unions only a few years ago felt that only they could make or assemble complex products. Now all the things they made are being made all over the world by those "ignorant, untrained people" Unless you are lucky enough to find a contact that has an opening in your field, stay home.

Reply
2
Power-User

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Houston, Texas (USA)
Posts: 240
Good Answers: 2
#17

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/11/2008 9:59 AM

Please get a job before even you think about moving to India or any Asian country.

It is not simple to get a job with a local company. In India, English is not a problem. The Brits were there oficially between 1857 until they were kicked out of India in Aug 1947. So, you will not be lost by just knowing English only.

Cost of living is low so are the wages until you work for a foreign company. I have seen on my assignments to SE Asia, like Singapore and Thailand, South America like Venezuela and India. AS I worked for foreign companies, my salary was higher than the others working and doing the same things plus tax benefits.

Learn the culture and customs and you do not have to learn the language as there are somany that every 500 miles the language changes completely. So, whichever area you go, learn that language. First they will teach you bad words and will laugh at you when you pronounce incorrectly and then they will teach you good words and you will remember both when you come back. In few years you will remember the bad ones and forget the good ones.

Are youtrying to get the job and move to India or move to India and look for the job? Why don't you try the other parts of yoru country (AS I do not know where our are located)? Some people would go half way around the world but would not leave their own state.

Good Luck and please come back and tell us what you have decided.

__________________
May God keep y'all in his blessings Nadeem Butt
Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12334
Good Answers: 115
#18

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/11/2008 10:07 AM

There are some great posts here (especially from DYGNC and Indian members). Could you find some contacts via the net and then visit the country for a week or two ? It may be possible to set up some interviews with various companies. Find some addresses and e-mail various people describing your intent. If you can be more specific with the type of thing you're looking for it may be that one of the members here has a good contact for you.

A lot of telephone advice services now operate from Indian rather than UK. The people at their end are usually highly qualified. They also get trained in using regional Brit accents and idiom etc. Using English is often the norm on many construction sites around the world, but the guys/gals doing more menial labour may not know it. Being able to communicate with those lower down the hierarchy would be important.

You'd need to do some research on each country about work permits etc.

It would be nice to hear how you get on with this. Good luck to you.

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Active Contributor

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 24
#20

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/11/2008 11:02 AM

In India, we used to have experts from U.K, Germany,Russia and other C.I.S countries etc working in different fields. Even now there are some more working in India.There is one American family now in our housing society working as teachers.The problem the American citizens looking for jobs may face will be

a)The South Asian hot climate (b)Low salary(c) Stiff competition as there are many Indians with same expertise and qualification now in the same field.They are prepared to work for more hours per day with lesser salary. By nature Indians are dedicated workers and good crisis managers.They do slog a lot in the workplace

There are many Americans/ Europeans in Indian (software,manufacturing etc) companies even now in India who are experts. The great author,Dr G.R.Bash forth came and taught in Benarus Hindu University (BHU) in India . But now, there are many qualified and experienced metallurgist in India .

Indian teachers are in good demand in African countries to tech all subjects.The country which enjoys the brain drain from India is perhaps,USA the most.The government of India spends a lot of money for educating doctors, engineers scientists and they go out searching greener pastures!! India could not keep with her , Dr Khurana or Amarthya sen !! Even our film stars go to US now!!

Regards,

P.G.Panikkar

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
3
Participant

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: atlanta, georgia, usa
Posts: 4
Good Answers: 1
#21

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/11/2008 11:46 AM

My husband is from Pakistan, and although I have never worked there I have been there several times and can tell you a few things to keep in mind.

My husband's dad has a business, and it is completely 100% built on the connections he has with other business leaders in the country and the Arab world and China. Although his dad tries his best to stay straight, there is a lot of graft and corruption in business so it's something you are going to have to deal with if you think about moving there. It is probably not as bad in India, but you may come across it. If it's something you absolutely positively cannot deal with, then don't even think about moving there. I would recommend if you are serious about moving to India, you should try to make friends and connections with the Indian-American or Indian-European community (wherever you live); they may be able to help you create connections.

I have to say, as a young woman (25 years old) with degree in engineering from an american university, I get A LOT MORE respect over in Pakistan than I do over here. Over here I have to deal with the good-ol boy network and all that garbage, while there I tell them about my background and people are automatically impressed. Which is a little weird at times, but at times it's nice. :-)

This also applies more to Pakistan than to India, but you must have enough money saved to immediately buy a plane ticket and fly home if the political situation gets out of hand. I would say for you at least $5,000. A ticket from the US to India does not cost that much, but evacuations can be really expensive. For example, the US evacuated its citizens from Lebanon to Cyprus during the 2006 Israeli-Lebanon war. But beyond that, the US did not pay for further transportation from Cyprus to the US; it only provided low cost loans if you were stuck. Better to have the cash on hand. I had a few friends that were green card holders on vacation in Lebanon at the time. The US did not evacuate green card holders, only citizens, so they went to Syria and then flew to Dubai, where they were stuck for TWO WEEKS before they could get a flight home to the US (and Dubai is ridiculously expensive). So you need the extra money...

Fortunately India is much more stable than Pakistan so this is a more distant possibility if you move to India rather than Pakistan. But at the same time you never know what will happen. It's a little off the topic but still it's important to think about.

Good luck!

Reply Good Answer (Score 3)
Guru
Safety - ESD - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - Amateur Astronomer Technical Fields - Technical Writing - Writer India - Member - Regular CR4 participant Engineering Fields - Optical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: 18 29 N 73 57E
Posts: 1388
Good Answers: 31
#36
In reply to #21

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/13/2008 10:25 PM

In India, you need not worry about evacuation. Except some troubled pockets this situation will not arise at all (See the all history of India after its Independence)

You will be safe.

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Dominican Republic
Posts: 278
Good Answers: 10
#22

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/11/2008 12:01 PM

the best bet is to get a round trip ticket with an open departue date. Most countries require it and you may also need to return to your home country to meet the legal requirements of your country or the country you visit until your residency is approved.

To keep the good money you are used to try a Google search of the field you are in and the country you want to go to (Electronics,India) and try to find companies that exist in your present country to apply to as an off-shore engineer. When i started down here i got full pay in dollars,house and car was also paid for.

Reply
2
Power-User

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 267
Good Answers: 21
#23

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/11/2008 12:12 PM

There are quite a lot of expatriats in Asia. There a few good expat web sites with decent forums and insight.

I can't speak of India as I've only been there a couple of times and only a couple days at a shot.

I have spent tons of time in East Asia. Taiwan, Singapore, Macau, HongKong, Mainland China. Taught myself to speak Mandarin. There are many good opportunities, but of course one has to find them. Communications, power, and manufacturing are all good growth sectors but there is a very well educated work force, with much lower pay than in the West. It's certainly best to find a good position with a western company, otherwise you will have lower compensation. Or better yet, do what I did and find a niche and start your own company.

If you do go...where ever you go...learn the language. Although you will find plenty of people with passable English skills, it will drastically expand your possibilities.

__________________
Speed doesn't kill. Sudden stops, brick walls, and old ladies in Buicks do.
Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
2
Anonymous Poster
#24

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/11/2008 12:18 PM

The answer to your question (of who will buy their Third World products) was recently demonstrated on various american national news television shows, among those of other nations new programs. The (newsbite) showed that the Indian company, named Tata, presented a showroom model of their domestically designed and manufactured automobile, called the Tata Nano, at a recent auto show, in India, to be for sale for the equivalent of 2,500 US dollars...

Indian families had previously (seen/heard of) the announcement and showed up with cash and/or credit cards to buy one, on the spot, anyway. But, the car will not actually become widely available for another six months yet...

The point is that, as their economies develop, the consumers of the second and third world countries will similarly still buy plenty of their respectively domestic second and third world products. (And maybe even more so...) After all, if you were in their situation then, wouldn't you tend to buy your own country's domestic products firstly?... and mostly?

Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Anonymous Poster
#25

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/11/2008 1:13 PM

My friend I am from India and live in Calgary for the last 3 years, I can tell you from first hand experience that all the romanticism associated with going to the 'land of elephants, snake charmers, beggars, heat and dust' will vanish like an ice cube in hell faster than you would think.

My wife and boys (10 year old twins) went to Delhi recently and just couldnt believe the chaos, skullduggery, lack of social ettiquite and plain stupidity of people on the streets.

So please take all this brouhaha (about the 'NEW & RESURGENT' India) with a pinch of salt. The qulaity of your life will certainly take a steep plunge unless you get a package of atleast USD 75000 (or equivalent in Indian rupees) in which case you will be able to afford to live in a safe enclave with 24 hour amenities, a driver, a maid, a cook etc.

Good luck

Reply Score 1 for Off Topic
Power-User

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Houston, Texas (USA)
Posts: 240
Good Answers: 2
#27
In reply to #25

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/11/2008 2:47 PM

If you visit Harlem, Spanish Harlem, south side of Chicago and East , 6th est in Philadelphia, off Bourbon St in New orleans, you will find the same. I went to see these place purposely to see how the otherside of America lives beyond skyscrappers.

I live in Houston, on the westside and a nice andposh area and always saw gated communities every where so we decided to see the slums as well.

A salry of $75,000.00 is too low when you go for overseas assignments. In India there are good areas also and mostly people visiting India would see the slums, starvation, shantitowns and come back feeling pain for these people over there.

Stay in your country and learn to live with little less and at least you are a first class citizen in your country. I am also from India but after living for 38 years in Europe and USA with absence of about 5 years on overseas assignment, I would never want to go back on permanent basis to any where else. Now this is my country for better or worse, mostly for better.

My point with all this is that the grass is always greener on the otherside. When the otherside becomes this side, it loses its charm.

__________________
May God keep y'all in his blessings Nadeem Butt
Reply
Guru
Safety - ESD - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - Amateur Astronomer Technical Fields - Technical Writing - Writer India - Member - Regular CR4 participant Engineering Fields - Optical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: 18 29 N 73 57E
Posts: 1388
Good Answers: 31
#37
In reply to #25

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/13/2008 10:40 PM

My dear, problem with you seems that you came to India with ROMANTISM as you only say.

Irrespective of all examples you quoted about Delhi, the life in India is much better if you see other angles too. Common people are more happy, satisfied and have inner peace. This is because people have no great expectation as you have. On street even if they are stupids, when in one to one contact, they are very loving people and you can get great respect if YOU behave with respect. They will just offer all they can if you behave nicely.

"Land of elephants, snake charmers"is a myth created by people like you.

Heat and dust is a gift of nature and beggers... yes, powerty is there,

For good leaving USD 75000 is very big amount. Even half the amount also gives good leaving. Off course, it may not be possible to save good amount which will have good worth after you return to your country.

Reply
Associate

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Bombay, India
Posts: 47
Good Answers: 1
#53
In reply to #25

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

08/10/2009 11:38 AM

Where did you get the figure of US$ 75,000. The median wage in the US is 40,405.48 and

In 2008, Sharpe, Arsenault and Harrison attempted to explain why the median earnings of full-time, full-year workers in Canada rose only $53 dollars, from $41,348 (2005 dollars) in 1980 to $41,401 in 2005,

And this is Canadian Dollar.

After three years you seem to plucked all your Indian roots out. I lived and worked in Canada and in Windsor for eight years and though a very good country to live in, it is the last place for an engineer to go. I am from IIT Bombay and could get engineering jobs but way below my competence. For a bus-driver, Plumber, Auto-mechanic and their kind it is the right place. Industrially Canada is underdeveloped when compared to India. I could have taken Canadian citizenship in three years but did not for I would lose my Indian citizenship

I am working in India for the last three years for an Indian company and we design complete geardrives for a US company and they make it in the US and sell all over the world. This is reverse outsourcing.

This company wants me to come to the US and work for them there for US$ 85,000+/year and but for this opportunity of doing great work with them I would not dream of leaving India for even twice what is offered

A lot many Indian engineers are jobless in Calgary and have applied to our company for being agents in Canada for as low as Canadian$ 2,000/month but found none to be competent!!

I will be in Cincinnati in October and we can continue our discussions. Incidentally this US company spent US$8,000 as Attorney fees for arranging my visa and pays me $2,000/month for not leaving my present company.

Disparaging your country and seeing only the negatives is a typical Indian trait. Probably you are no more an Indian.

We are extremely poor and extremely rich. In Bombay the price of an apartment in prime areas is US$ 1,500-2,000 per square-foot. Put that in your pipe and smoke it

__________________
There is a tide in the affairs of men. Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune; Omtted, all the voyage of their life is bound in shallows and in miseries
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12334
Good Answers: 115
#26

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/11/2008 2:19 PM

This thread has got one of the best 'thumbs-up' rates ever. Nice one Guest. You have stimulated good discusion.

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Reply
Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 7
#28

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/11/2008 3:15 PM

There's no equivalency to working in America & moving to Asia / India for an in-country company. The pay scale is too low. They can hire five guys for the scale you probably need & the money you try to send home to the USA won't support anyone here. If you bring your family over with you there is the culture shock, food adjustments and an absence of the quality of life we enjoy here. And don't discount the feeling of isolation and being in the minority group. (Yes, there is discrimination in foreign countries.) The real problem, if you stay there too long, is the problem of coming back to the USA. While you & your family were working abroad in these areas for greatly reduced compensation, the cost of living in the USA will have become ever greater. You may not be able to afford even the same life style here that you had when you left. My advice is to stay in America. You really can't appreciate how good and great this country is until you've left it. And don't forget to vote for people who want to protect and defend this country and it's families!

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Houston, Texas (USA)
Posts: 240
Good Answers: 2
#29
In reply to #28

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/11/2008 3:39 PM

BRAVO, BurntCabin23.

There is no country like good old USA. Stay here. I wrote my experience too. I hope the guest who is thinking to go to India, listens to us. He did not tell what kind of work he is looking for. May be some one here in this thread may be able to help him get a good job which suits him.

__________________
May God keep y'all in his blessings Nadeem Butt
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Capital City, Cow Hampshire, USA
Posts: 477
Good Answers: 3
#30

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/11/2008 7:33 PM

No sleight toward the countries to witch the work is being sent, but...; A MAJOR F*YOU! to those who think sending all things offshore is the answer.

__________________
If you always do what you've always done, You'll always get what you've always had!
Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mumbai, India
Posts: 1985
Good Answers: 25
#31

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/11/2008 9:05 PM

Having read all threads No.29 last one, I have to comment as under:- 1.Who would like to leave his birth place if he is happy there. 2.If you dont have decent job you have no alternative but to move. 3.World is becoming Global Village one can move place of his choice. 4.There are many pros and cons of different countries so have to make compromises. 5.Each country has its own culture so one has to adjust. 6.You need not settle down but work for few years and save money and go back to your country. 7.Regarding job search you can approach local placement service provider or approach MNCs.

__________________
"Engineers should not look for jobs but should create jobs for others" by Dr.Radhakrishnan Ex President of India during my college graduation day
Reply
Associate

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 34
#32

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/13/2008 4:25 AM

Hi !!! All

Lets all than our guest for starting this interesting discussion. I am sure inputs from various contributors must be adequate for taking a plunge if one is serious about it.

Since the job opportunities in western developed economy have diminished this questions are being raised.

No doubt your pay package in dollar terms would be less in India or other such countries but there is something like Purchasing Power Parity . Even at half the salary in countries like India you would have much more in terms of domestic help , drivers, Gardeners , cook , house maid and so on which can not be dreamed in countries like USA, Canada , Germany , UK . At the same time infrastructure wise you would miss many things ( Slowly it is coming up bu may take at least one decade or even more )

People speak English and it is a business langauge and learning local language is not a big deal you would learn it after about 12 months provided you mix with people in office and on the society.

To give a Mathematical analogy just note that Sum of three angles in a Triangle is always 180 degrees so if one angle in US / Canada is big other two are small . Likewise in India other angle is more so remaining two are small -- So big question is what is an ideal situation ??? Obviously best situation is Triangle should be equilateral 60 degree at each corner .-- In real world this is not the situation and is an Utopian Idea .

Look for triangle which is less skewed according to your perception and needs.

Let me assure you after making a exploratory trip for One month and spending 4000 USD if at all you decided to take a Job in India and move your wife & children Lock stock and barrel and have perseverance you would be leading relatively a much better life in a Triangle which is worth living for 100 Billion people happily .

"Hindustan Leavers " ( NRI's ) are amused to see the growth & improvement when they visit once every two years to meet their parent. Many have moved back and settled here in India.

If you are not able to get re employment in your country you may consider to apply and send resume to companies after visiting India or any other developing country.

I have visited USA / Canada / UK / Germany several times and have seen people doing multiple jobs in a day to make two ends meet and feel sorry for them.

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12334
Good Answers: 115
#33
In reply to #32

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/13/2008 6:32 AM

That triangle analogy is brilliant ! Well said.

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Reply
Anonymous Poster
#34
In reply to #33

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/13/2008 9:29 AM

One interesting point (to me, at least) is that of if a good engineer in the States or Europe would really do so "good" when moved to another location such as India/Asia. Work is in most cases not just "individual", but immersed in dealing and handling with other people, politics and customs. Perhaps a really good engineer that "makes things happen" in USA, would be absolutely "useless" in Europe, where things many times cannot be made in the same way?

Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12334
Good Answers: 115
#35
In reply to #34

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/13/2008 12:30 PM

People often get misguided ideas about what they can do overseas. In the UK we have lots of reports of people going to 'help' in places such as those affected by the 'Boxing day Tsunami'. In a lot of cases their efforts, whilst sincerely meant, have not been of help. The same happens with 'gap-year' students. This is mainly the fault of money-grabbing companies that organize such stuff, but it is also incumbent on the individual to research such stuff. Plenty of good organizations exist, but this is a slight digression from the original question.

Perhaps another solution is to find a company who will send you on foreign assignment so you can gain local knowledge. Engineers are generally fairly mobile, but a lot of people don't want to work too far from home. 'Testing the water' with a short term contract might be a good idea.

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Houston, Texas (USA)
Posts: 240
Good Answers: 2
#39
In reply to #32

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/14/2008 6:42 PM

There are plenty of jobs of all kind in this country if some one wants to work. We are starving for process engineers now and in 1999-2002 people in Houston were out of work and starving for work and many of us took refuge in Anchorage , Alaska until such time Houston came out of depression again and jobs opened up. It took me about 3 months to find an equivalent job and I got it but was in Alaska. I took it.

We can change states to look for work and going abroad is not a problem. Where you go is the problem. India is not a bad place to be but one should have patience and learn the ways the Indian do business. Ok so they are poor so their kickbacks are low but here in States the people are rich so the kickbacks are big too. So big that the Congressman from California can drive Rolls Royce. Now he is resting in Jail. India is coming out of developing natiojns and entering in the developed nations and may be Indus Valley time is coming back to India when India was the center of eduaction and people came from around the world to learn and earn. Then the looters like damn Britts show up like thieves in the night from the backdoor and destroyed the culture but in return they did good things too as they brought India out of fallen dark ages. The language that every educated Indian can speak except elderly and inland.

So, history is like a wheel and all civilizations go down the drain once they have peaked. The example are there from Greek, Roman, England, France and USA who is on its way on the history lane. So if people go to India that means the wheel of History is in the motion and they, Indians may be the new and refreshed civilization.

Like every one said, please have job first before you go and you will have more money otherwise you may not able to continue your living standards with Indian standard scale of pays. I think the guest who wanted to move the India must be having second, Third and fourth thoughts to move to India for jobs.

__________________
May God keep y'all in his blessings Nadeem Butt
Reply
Anonymous Poster
#38

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/14/2008 6:04 PM

If an American engineer is unable to get work in the US, offshoring of US jobs is probably not the reason. From the Bureau of Labor Statistics, U.S. Department of Labor, Occupational Outlook Handbook, 2008-09 Edition, Engineers, on the Internet at http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm (visited January 14, 2008):

Employment of engineers is expected to grow about as fast as the average for all occupations over the next decade, but growth will vary by specialty. Environmental engineers should experience the fastest growth, while civil engineers should see the largest employment increase. Overall job opportunities in engineering are expected to be good.

Overall employment change. Overall engineering employment is expected to grow by 11 percent over the 2006-16 decade, about as fast as the average for all occupations. Engineers have traditionally been concentrated in slower growing or declining manufacturing industries, in which they will continue to be needed to design, build, test, and improve manufactured products. However, increasing employment of engineers in faster growing service industries should generate most of the employment growth. Job outlook varies by engineering specialty, as discussed later.

Competitive pressures and advancing technology will force companies to improve and update product designs and to optimize their manufacturing processes. Employers will rely on engineers to increase productivity and expand output of goods and services. New technologies continue to improve the design process, enabling engineers to produce and analyze various product designs much more rapidly than in the past. Unlike in some other occupations, however, technological advances are not expected to substantially limit employment opportunities in engineering because engineers will continue to develop new products and processes that increase productivity.

Offshoring of engineering work will likely dampen domestic employment growth to some degree. There are many well-trained, often English-speaking engineers available around the world willing to work at much lower salaries than U.S. engineers. The rise of the Internet has made it relatively easy for part of the engineering work previously done by engineers in this country to be done by engineers in other countries, a factor that will tend to hold down employment growth. Even so, there will always be a need for onsite engineers to interact with other employees and clients.

Overall job outlook. Overall job opportunities in engineering are expected to be good because the number of engineering graduates should be in rough balance with the number of job openings between 2006 and 2016. In addition to openings from job growth, many openings will be created by the need to replace current engineers who retire; transfer to management, sales, or other occupations; or leave engineering for other reasons.

Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 529
Good Answers: 15
#40
In reply to #38

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/14/2008 8:48 PM

It would be interesting to break that down by type of engineer. Mechanical vs manufacturing vs electrical vs nuclear vs??

Undoubtedly for some professions it would be a negative.

Then when you add in age discrimation.....

With the gorgeous sunsets out my living room window why would I move to another state or country.

__________________
downhill slide to 112 (damn memor.)
Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member China - Member - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CHINA
Posts: 2946
Good Answers: 14
#41

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/15/2008 2:25 AM

Our company needs engineers from other side of pacific ocean.

What do you do? if you are familiar with application electronic and simulation. pls contact me.

Reply
Anonymous Poster
#42

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/15/2008 3:14 AM

Hi folks !!!

Folowing exchange of mails with some Indian Community planing to return back to India would throw some light to evaluate the situation in right prespective. Those who have decided to stay In US may ignore the contents and do what ever the please now or in future when they loose Job . May be Social Security may come to their rescu. --otherwise they can always fall back in a Triangle which is les skewd and abode for 1 / 5 th Population of our Globe

Quote

Hi Guys, I came across this e-mail in MSU alumni group. I thought many of us would like to read it. I would love to get some comments back from you guys. I am sure we have guys in our yahoo group with varied experience and different perception/opinion on this issue. Please refrain from any personnel attacks, as we are not trying to prove which is the better place to live - India or USA. My personal opinion: This is one of the most common topic of discussion/arguments in our desi getherings. I am happy to learn that everything in India is improving. but, like guy who wrote this e-mail said, don't return to India just because the it is better now. YOU HAVE TO HAVE A STRONGER MOTIVATION other than just money/lifestyle/servants etc. If and when you reply to this e-mail, please keep the subject SAME and 'reply to all'. Thanks.

=================================

This is a first hand story of somebody who has Returned back to India 1.5 year ago.

hi all,
i write my r2i experience as one of my to-come-or-not friend who use this
forum regularly asked me to do so. please move to experience page if you feel necessary. also it is not my intention to hurt anybody and if my language hurts anybody i sincerely apologize in advance.
about me:
age: 44 (when R2I in 2004)
stayed in usa: 18 yrs (26 to 44)
lived in: chicago suburb, sfo suburb
family: wife and a daughter aged 8 when r2i
living in: chennai since mar 2004.
designation: director of software for a leading s/w co in chennai

rather than address common issues like moving, packing, education, renting,
pollution, walking on side walks, water quality, etc, etc, i will address the 'dilemma' question which is 'to come or not'.
i list my points below the basis of which i r2i.
1. Work till 60 with no significant years before retirement:
i worked in chicago and then in bay area. i found out that you cannot
retire in these places early like say 45 or 50. (maybe if you live in a small place like omaha or kansas city, etc you can). most of tech hubs where we live in usa like
chicago, bay area, south california, raliegh, new jersey, new york suburbs,
tampa, fort lauderdale, etc, etc are costly places to live in. i found that by working in america (in most metro areas) means
a. you have to keep on working till 60 or 65.
b. once you cross 40 then you start angling the social security which
kicks in at 58 or 62 or 65 (depending on when you want to bail out) then you have to keep on pushing till you reach that limit.
c. lot of my collegues (whites, blacks, browns, yellows) had no plans of
retirement as they were themselves petrified of losing their jobs and no time
to think thus far.
d. i had mortgage payment to make for next 15 to 20 years.
e. with my daugher education, car, college (and marriage) etc i figured it would take 25 years to retire. meaning around 60 years of my age.
i wanted to slow down and this was one of the reasons for my r2i
2. Living life with stingy stingy view:
a. even with my wife working, i found it diffcult to live richly or even
moderately richly.
b. each and every dollar was carefully spent in walmart or costco or dollar shop.
c. trips on weekend to hotel was once a month.
d. kids clothes were mainly bought in outlet malls
e. i could not put my daughter in tennis class or bharatnatyam becoz we were constantly telling her to concentrate on studies. she was in montessari and not even challenger school and even with that we were hyper on her studies. also the cost of private tution + extra curricular things were cutting to our savings in a big way.
f. taking vacation was once in 2 years as the bills to las vegas or los angeles or florida, etc came to like 1000 to 2000 dollars for a single trip. we used to avoid driving heavily and preffered flights and that added to the cost.
g. dollar shop visits became more and more frequent.
h. mortgage payments were there to be made as we bought house pretty late in bay area in the dot com boom in early 1998.
i. chicago house did not appreciate much and so had no huge gain from that.
j. i lost jobs couple of times and was looking for new one's almost for weeks together. this drained me even though i had masters background with all the buzzwords in resume.
i thought it was better to live richly in india (ofcourse with the money you saved by lia) rather than a lower or a middle class in america and this was one of the reasons for my r2i.
3. No career growth:
a. most of my friends in india who were my classmates and stayed back or r2i are either at the grade of senior managers or directors. not even one is at start level of developer or team lead.
b. whereas i was continously being thrown between manager and developer depending on how early i got a job. there was absolutely no career growth. my friends were worse than me in bay area as most of them even at 40 were developers or programmers or at best 'staff software engineer' which is a facade for devloper.
c. freedom to innovate was disappearing at work as i had to keep my bosses jolly rather than architecting or charting a tough path for the project/product. when i try to contest my director in few companies on the path the team is taking, i was promptly shown the door.
d. i found programming (which I was using only rarely when getting a job after a job-loss) extremely tough at 40 (whereas at 25 i could do like 15 hours of programming every day).
i wanted to have solid career growth and this was one of the reasons for my
r2i
4. No 'other' life:
a. i also found out that i am cut off totally from the non governmental side (ngo) side. meaning if you are in india you can associate with an ngo in various sectors like education, health, environment, etc, etc and make some useful contributions at ground level. this was not possible for me. some good ngo examples are exnora, beag, santcuaryasia, cseindia, aidindia, asha, esgindia, kalpavriksh, cry-india, wwf-india, etc, etc.
b. i volunteered extensively for great organizations like aidindia, asha, cry(now viba), etc when I was LIA. although it was good, it was during spare time and the satisifaction was very less.
c. i could not take leave like a month or two from work and concentrate
on ngo side by visiting india as this means losing the dear job.
i wanted to work at village level, at forest areas, at river ecologies and with tribal people and this was one of the reasons for my r2i

5. Citizenship:
a. long before we came, i made sure my wife gets USC. my daughter was
born there so no issues.
b. i retained my indian citizenship. i could not let go of it. although dual citizenship was talked about, i knew that i could not vote or own agriculatural land, etc, etc. more than that i did not want to lose my 'brown indian' or my 'brown keralite' identity.
c. worst comes to worst if i ever want to go back, i can use my wife
citizenship to get myself one. but this has not happened nor seems to happen.
6. As bachelor in america:
a. we made a strategic decision. in early 2002 when my daughter was 8, my
wife and she left for india. i stayed for 2 years as 'bachelor'. the idea was to make a final killing of the dollars. glad to say this worked out well. i was able to take like 45L in those 2 years. also my wife and daughter visited me twice a year.
the idea was simple. if i had enough 'last mile' money then the temptation to work in india immediately after r2-ied wont happen and i was correct.

After r2i in march 2004:
what was i doing for past 1.5 years. please read below.
1. As a Nomad from Mar 2004 to Mar 2005:
a. since i had r2i with 'last mile money', i did not start work in 2004 middle. but i worked with several ngo's in tamilnadu and kerala especially on river ecology, forest issues and tribal development. my daughter was stunned in seeing me so relaxed and enjoying every minute when she meet me in Athirapally forests of enchanting kerala
b. from mar 2004 to mar 2005 i was travelling heavily like a nomad. WHAT A BLAST it was. one thing we forget when we chase money is the crucial thing called LIFE. i interacted with so many people, so many customs, so many forest wildlife, so many river issues, i was blissfully enjoying it.
2.Career growth:
a. after the nomad life, i got an opening in April 2005 for an astounding salary of around 30L with over 150 people team to manage. it was through a walk in interview.
b. in america, even though i was struggling, i made sure i moved up career (it was a brutal blood ripped struggle to do though). this helped me when i started job hunting.
c. now having 2 cars, with own driver for myself, i leisurely browse either The Hindu or through by Sony Vio during the commute.
d. i have visited america once as my company had gotten me a 10 year b1
visa.
e. i am now in charge of career and life of over 150 young chaps and there is nothing more exciting than dealing with them.
f. in america i was working with stale teams more often. but WHAT A BLAST with this team in chennai. i myself feel like 25year old lot of times. the only thing i dont do them is to give 'dictation'. did you know 50% of india's population is under 25. what a place to be!!! You have to see the girls now. In early 1990's you can only see girls rarely in workplace. Now in my team they are the smartest, suave and hardworking variety.
g. i managed to reduce attrition from my team from a dangerous 30% to almost 5%. the skills i had acquired in america came handy while talking, dealing, pacifying, technically intrevening, architecting, etc, etc.
i. i delegate most of my work to my managers as i dont have fear of losing my job considering the huge offshoring taking place.
j. i constantly urge my managers to beat me professionally so that they be future leaders like i am now. i cannot even dream about this in america as i would have been a staff software engineer or at the most a team lead!!!

3. Family:
1. family life is also cool. my wife does not work so she has all the time for my daughter. She now pursues her other love which is teaching young poor kids in a local NGO.
2. my daughter now practises under ramesh krishnan and hopefully she will
become another sania :) (i am pushing her for it)
3. i dont even ask whether my daughter studies or not. i gently prod to
her to do better at studies. she invariably finishes among top 10 in her
hugely talented class in her cbse school.
4. although i am not a huge spender, i make sure i visit foodworld,
spencer (only on weekend afternoons), choicest bakeries, good places for
dresses, etc.
5. we eat out whenever we think so. no more dollar counting business.
6. my daughter practises dance in adayar (a place known for great culture)
under a famous teacher. we are enjoying her mistakes and clapping on her great
moves
7. my parents are with me most of the times and they visit my sister in
chicago once in 2 years.
4.Retirement:
a. i am almost semi retired now. i am taking a 3 months (unpaid though) break - from april 2006 - to go to kerala and karnataka to study and work on forest issues.
b. i have a tentative deal with my company to take 3 month break every year unpaid. since i have delegated enough i can smoothly sneak out and sneak in.
c. in next couple of years (like when i am 48) i am planning to take full
retirmenent.
5. cricket:
a. i was a university player in cricket. but i vividly remember not having proper whites, or gloves or pads or bats.
b. one of my major things for me is to arrive unannounced during cricket matches, watch teams for couple of hours or days and then pick a couple of individuals and then donate the pads, bats and gloves and introduce them to my cricket crazy friends for further referrals.
c. you have to see the look on the face of those young guys.. they are stunned and happy...

that's all folks. hopefully i have not increased you dilemma. the thumb rule is simple. the rules are as follows:
1. if you plan to work till death, dont r2i. it is better to stay in america.
2. if you being a programmer or developer is not an issue for you for entire life, dont r2i.
3. if you dont have alternate pursuits (like ngo or sports or culture or language passion), etc dont r2i.
4. dont r2i just because your daughter or son will start dating or something
like that. believe me in chennai you can see dating as early as higher secondary. in chennai it is done secretively whereas in america it is done openly. also dating is a natural phenomenon and nothing can stop it. you have to make sure the guy/gal is well brought up and is from decent family (and if you are caste specific, god help you both in america and india) .
5. dont r2i just because you love india. this does not work as the reality here will strike hard.
6. dont r2i if you dont travel to india frequently during your stay in america. ideally you should visit india every 2 years (3 years at worst). or else you totally lose the connection.
7. dont r2i if you want to be with your parents in their last days. believe me elders in india are rapidly staying healthier and if you have a sibling who can take care of your parents then you better stay back.
8. dont r2i if you and your spouse works because in 15 to 25 years you can
retire (like when you are 55 or 60)
9. dont r2i because education in india is best. in america also education is good. in california there are top notch private schools and top notch public high and higher secondary schools. education is not a criteria for r2i.
10. dont r2i if you want your children to be bought up in 'indian culture'. the world is increasingly flat and i see that my daughter's indian born and brought up friends are more american than she is!!!
11. dont r2i just for the heck of it. it will blast you back to america.
12. dont r2i for 'just to live in my mother country india'. you need to have more than one strong motivation to come here.
my advise is stay in america and r2i based on above.
good luck.
-krish

UNQUOTE

Udayan

Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Power-User

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Houston, Texas (USA)
Posts: 240
Good Answers: 2
#44
In reply to #42

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/21/2008 9:18 AM

The guy who wrote this long rticle (and I read it) did not like to work hard like all of us here in USA and ran away. He is now boasting as to how great he is doing. It is well and good for him.

The people from the South India area do not like to go out of their state as they can not speak any of the languages other than own so they like to go back to their cubby holes.

Also, the grass is always greener on the otherside.

Guys, stay where you are and find the job in your area. Asian countries are not fit for the children going from USA to Thailand,, India or Pakistan as Lolita said in her message. I have seen families moving back to USA after couple of years with the excuse of children and the education standard.

I have nothing against India as it is my motherland and I love it as being my birth place only but I shall not leave USA to live there. I have the money so I can go any time I want and meet my family memebers but I do not have to leave my adopted home (for 38 years) for old home (by birth) which I hardly recognize except few familiar faces that I left behind. New generation is not familiar with me and I am not familiar with them. That is how all the Indians worldwide like, Fiji, Surinam, South Africa and Trinidad and Tobago and others have estranged families in India and that is a tragedy. The new countries are now like USA, England and Australia. Some people were tied up finanacially and could not return to see the family. Time passed and ther family members passed on then there was no one and nothing left to go bakc to visit. Now they say, we have families in India but do not where they are.

Regards;

Nadeem Butt

01212008

__________________
May God keep y'all in his blessings Nadeem Butt
Reply
Guru
Safety - ESD - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - Amateur Astronomer Technical Fields - Technical Writing - Writer India - Member - Regular CR4 participant Engineering Fields - Optical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: 18 29 N 73 57E
Posts: 1388
Good Answers: 31
#45
In reply to #44

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/21/2008 10:24 PM

Nadeem is wrong in some places.

You will see south indians (I am not one) and sikhs all over India.

As he says, Asian countries are not fit for the children going from USA. But reverse is also true. It depends up on how you see the world. Indian people rarely can accept the open culture in US. They are worried about their daughters (and to some extent sons), as they are grown up in certain cultural concepts. (Example ..Still kissing in public is not acceptable in India and probably asian coutries in general.)

But once you ave gone through this phase like Nadeem, accepting the open culture, then your children are born and brought up in same culture. You feel better in same culture.

Reversely, children from US coming to asian countries will feel cought in cultural restrictions.

Reply
Anonymous Poster
#52
In reply to #45

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/25/2008 8:26 AM

DearOnes, I have travelled to 9 countries in the world including Russia, China, South Korea,Nigeria,Dubai, CISGeorgia, Iran ,Azerbaijan etc

My observation is that every country has its own cultural back ground and heritage.There many are cultural groups with in the country too.

So, let us accept that any foreigner working in any other country has to adjust with the culture of that country in which he is planning to work.But for working in any asian country, for a westerner, I do not think it will be a problem.

After all how many times a day you want to kiss in open when you are working in a country and is having a corporate target to acheive? I hope, one can sacrify a few kisses and store and shift that activity to his bed groom or to any private place of his choice.Actually what matters is

a)Expertise

b)climate of working

c)Renumeration

and

d)Satisfaction/compensations psychological

e) the organisational culture

Human emotions,sentiments etc are every where the same.

An American mother is no different than any mother in the world.

Regards,

PGPanikkar

Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member China - Member - New Member

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: CHINA
Posts: 2946
Good Answers: 14
#46
In reply to #44

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/22/2008 12:20 AM

I cannt read that article, but your speaking is wrong.

In spite of you are an india, you forget your country and pride of your been an american. you should do something for your country when you are rich at either capital or knowlege.

Reply
Guru
Safety - ESD - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - Amateur Astronomer Technical Fields - Technical Writing - Writer India - Member - Regular CR4 participant Engineering Fields - Optical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: 18 29 N 73 57E
Posts: 1388
Good Answers: 31
#47
In reply to #44

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/22/2008 12:47 AM

Nadeem... Please learn from CNPOWER a person from China.

I respect CNPOWER and chinese in general (I have visited China few years back) for their love for their motherland.

Nadeem... I am sure you must have educated in India and based on the same education you went to US, still you take freedom to criticise Indian education.

Please get the information about the % of people working in NASA, INTEL, ICROSOFT and so many other corporations in US. At leasts they have taken their basic education in India, still they are working in those big blue chip companies. You have no right to criticise when you are enjoying the fruits of what you educated in your motherland. Or else stop telling that INDIA is your motherland.

Reply
Associate

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 34
#48
In reply to #47

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/22/2008 1:33 AM

I endorse the views of gsuhas & CNPOWER.

Without getting personal I wish to say that India is growing without such "Hindustan Leavers" and if they want to come back for any reason what so ever they are welcome any time.

I am home grown graduate engineer from B- Grade University back in 1971 and manage my manufacturing company and employ 70 people & export high precision Inspection equipment to almost 25 countries like USA , Canada , Brazil, Argentina, UK, Germany, Italy, Spain, France, Australia, Zealand,Singapore , Taiwan, Malaysia, Thiland, Israel and so on and co-latterly spend 40 Days each year honorary teaching in Academics and have a sense of pride in my endeavours.

When I compare notes with my classmates I find they have nothing to boost about except some hard earned dollars which they don't want to loose even for their Alma matter.

I have to say that "do not belittle yourself simply because you are from India."

I Know many American Executives working in India at Bangalore, Pune, Hyderabad, Gudgaon are very happy working here. Guest who initiated this thread would not regret if he gives a fair chance to himself especially when he is not having job opportunity at the same level when he got fired.

Learning foreign language is always an advantage even in USA and more so in third world countries. I would recommend reading Biography of Arthur Ash ( Tennis player ) and specifically his letter in the book- addressed to his daughter Camera who was just 2 Year old when he wrote the letter and died of Aids acquired in blood transfusion in a hospital; in Great country America

Thanks for keeping thread alive which adds new angles of thinking on the subject. End of the day each one must stay wherever they feel comfortable and do what he likes regardless of opinion given by me or many others.

Udayan

Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Houston, Texas (USA)
Posts: 240
Good Answers: 2
#49
In reply to #48

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/22/2008 7:13 PM

This note is for Udayan, Gsuhas, CNpower and the guest who wrote about the jobs and job sites.

I thank you all for taking time and responding (and correcting me). First of all, I would like to tell my Indian friends that please do not call us India leavers. We may be Non-Resident Indians (NRI) but surely not India leavers. We go back and pay our hommage to our motherland. One way you are right that we have become to much foreigners and have almost lost the values that we were brought up with. Our children are not Indians and they are as red blooded American as any one else. They were born here and brought up here and it is very difficult to instill the same values what our parents taught us. Sorry to be blunt but that is the way life is and we have become very obedient parents here. We schedule our holidays to match our children's holidays and off time.

Now, if we do not go to India for long time then we will lose all the touch with India and work would not leave us for a long time to be there. We have set up our life here and it is very difficult to leave it. I have been on thejob assignment to Thailand, Venezuela, Canada, Italy etc and none of these places were as satisfying as USA. We enjoyed our asignments ranging from 18 months to three and half years but we hurried up back to USA.

India is coming up and Gandhara and Taxila and Indus valley civilization tells every one at what peak the Indian civilization was once and hopefully with modern technologies, India may find her place again on the top. That is the wheel of civilizations.

I thanks CNPower, Gsuhas and Udayan that they open my eyes to look around what people are saying. I would still say that going to India without a job will be a mistake and the guest who started this thread will waste money and come back as some one suggested to take 4000 dollars and a return ticket. I would say that spend that money wisely in the USA (I guess he is from USA) and look for the job here. He can see more opportunities and find a suitable job.

I never intended to look down upon the Indian friends or India. How can I? I was born there. India is one eye and USA is the other. You may say is loving both of them is feeling like a fool but that is the truth. I put my future with USA as people riding two boats shall drown. They will not enjoy either of the countries as they can not go back for good and they do not want to stay in USA. So I took USA as my prime resident country and visit India as my secondary home.

Hope you all have good evening.

Regards;

Nadeem Butt

01222008

__________________
May God keep y'all in his blessings Nadeem Butt
Reply
Guru
Safety - ESD - New Member Popular Science - Cosmology - Amateur Astronomer Technical Fields - Technical Writing - Writer India - Member - Regular CR4 participant Engineering Fields - Optical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: 18 29 N 73 57E
Posts: 1388
Good Answers: 31
#50
In reply to #49

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/22/2008 9:41 PM

Thanks Nadeem. I respect you as a Indian.

I do understand that it is very difficult to leave in India without work and work calls you back to US, as work environment is nice in US. No doubt, work environment is not so good in India. But, when you will retire and with no job to do, if you say same thing that you have set up your life in US, it is your failure. Then it will mean that you have addicted to your luxurious life in US.

Regarding foreigner coming to India, we need not discourage him/her. Only we should give him clear picture of the situation in asian countries. We need not criticise any thing with our own view points.

I know many foreigners staying in India, as they also feel that irrespective of what India is, they are peaceful here. This is inner peace. No one know, our foreigner friend looking for job in asian countries may experience same thing.

We only should help him in taking decision with open eyes, not biased in anyway.

Good, we realized, you are also good Indian, by heart. It would be a pleasure to meet you.

Reply
Anonymous Poster
#51
In reply to #49

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/22/2008 11:19 PM

Thanks Mr Nadeem for your frank opinion. Please do not take offence personally as I call Hindustan Leavers to only those who after experincing the glitter get blinded and condemn all what is Indian.

During my various trips to US in Past while exploring the market potential, NRI's satteled were wondering how any Indian mfg company can export Engg Products more so high precision Inspection Equipment. Unfortunately they had impression of India when they left forgetting that each society evolves with the passage of time like America did in Last 200 +Years.

When these NRI's visit India for three / four weeks once every three years they do not have time nor inclination to visit factories of their friends / relatives / classmates at which ever state / city they hail from and unfortunately more often than less, they extrapolate their opinion & belief based on what they see on the streets with dust / dirt and poor infrastructure.

I am happy to note Mr Nadeem is aware of Taxsshila, Nalanda , Valabhipur and other such glorious places of learning and great civilization of Indus Valley. He would do a great sevice by dispelling ignorance amongst NRI's around him.

Dear Mr Nadeem whenever you visit India next, I shall be happy to interact in person

Comming back to the main question of the guest who posted his querry, I assure him that there is no harm in visiting any of the Asian country including India just to explore the place before taking any job more so when he is not having job of his expectation in US.

As of now, nobody in this thread knows what are his qualifications and experiance. I am sure many would offer concreat suggestions once his details are made available

Thanks and regards to all the contributors in this thread

Udayan

Reply
Guru
India - Member - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: India, 200 Km. North of Delhi.
Posts: 1387
Good Answers: 52
#43

Re: Are Americans/Europeans Going to India or Asia to Work?

01/19/2008 6:42 AM

Dear guest,

don't worry, you are most welcome here,

Ex BBC Corespondent Mr Mark Tully is living here for decades with out trouble.

Any trouble please write me any time,

__________________
Jesus gave me message, Gandhi gave me method, M.L.K
Reply
Reply to Forum Thread 53 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

agua_doc (1); Anonymous Poster (11); BURNTCABIN23 (1); ca1ic0cat (1); Cardio07 (1); cnpower (2); crm (1); ddk (1); Dedaelus (1); DGCYS (2); elnav (1); gigaconcept.com (2); gsuhas (6); Kris (4); MUKULMAHANT (1); Nadeem0430 (6); pgpanikkar (1); PWSlack (1); rakesh_semwal (1); rita lolita (1); sidevalveguru (1); suresh sharma (2); Switchman (1); travelerengineer (1); Udayan Patel (2)

Previous in Forum: Order Your Robo-Guitar   Next in Forum: What do you call the network coverage test software?

Advertisement