To Help or Not to Help Research of Others

If the work interests you and excites you and you want to do do it...then do it happilly.
If you are worried about all the IP issues and getting recognition then either don't help or make sure you keep a damn good log book.
The one think that will turn me off very quickly is offering sound advice/help and having it ignored...unless of course it is me that is learning from the exchange , in which case I'm there 100% on board.

Del

You have a point.

Yes, there were some problems in such support that I extended to research organization. They had their crude specifications and wanted a system to be built. Then they say, this should not be disclosed to others, even though the design has been completely mine. From their point of view, it is their idea.

I have an analogy which may help you understand better. If I have an idea of going to moon and I take help of NASA then NASA technology including their ship design are mine after they help me. How do you like that?

Some time I need money so I just do that and don't care much about terms and conditions.

Now that NSF equivalent Government of India agency DST (www.dst.gov.in) is being proposed with idea of accelerating the research for what they fund to others, I am voluntarily making an offer of developing part of the technology for the accepted projects or even initiate projects with linked offers.

This support means million dollar business for me and credit to researchers and good will money of Government of India through DST organization.

I believe it can reduce 3 years research time to 1 year or one may find more time to gather research data and can produce quality research after getting my support.

After all we buy tools from industries. My support may be nearly equivalent but not exactly equivalent, as I an doing research to support research. It is not a standard item I sell to people. I will get some credit as people know the source of the development. I think this may be considered enough with written agreement. That I am hidden hand in the success will be known to the world in writing in every DST document. I can also hold partial right on entire development if I contribute more and full right on my part of development.

Money can buy fortune on sale for peanuts to survive and this perhaps tell all about the hotch-potch research we see around the scientific generals displaying medals and awards of which they have little idea. Greed and need somehow get coupled together and each one gets something out of it. Ideas sure make things happen but often for someone else.

I sold diamond full cart at the cost of pot hole fill clay to let me have that cup of tea I wanted to offer to my wife in the morning to break her fast. How sad it will be or how precious that tea is. I wonder and will sure offer that cup of tea to my beloved.

Value of things come by appreciation of creation and by living with feelings. Former one is in control of others and later one in your own control.

Do it in the name of nation, humanity or passion but do it in any way. This is what I think I believe in acting or doing things I do.

The language may not be perfect, but the sentiment is, I fully agree

I believe if you have access to privileged information, (there is a need for this), and even if you improve it, it is still the property of the original owner? I have a patent, and I must admit it was nothing more than a dream. And lots of people have a dream of inventing something of importance? But I get more enjoyment from just solving a problem, and the ideas I have I cant afford, nor do I have the facilities to anything about them, so if I can help anyone I am quite happy to do so.

Regards JD.

If I have too many horses, then I will sell out few to feed the best with whatever I derive from the so called not so great lot.

Dreams are not reality and patent is to reality. Imagination in its raw form is also a reality but to be given only a copyright but not a patent I suppose. However, I am not the one who can decide on these issues. I can voice my views and appreciate or criticize others views.

I agree, its a frustrating business, and I hope there is a horse in your stable that turns out to be a winner, I had a dream, you have realty, lets hope that makes a difference. All the best in your endeavors.

Regards JD.

My saddlechariot is mine, but the idea of hooking an animal to a wheeled vehicle is say 5000 tears old, the wheel, 6,000, the central seat chariot, 4,800 years, bicycle seat 200, years, clamcleat 20? years, I use stainless steel, ABS plastic, HDPE, laser cutters, liquid laser, closed cell foam, nylon 66..............hey! What did I do?

I took ideas from everyone and combined them into a safe horse drawn vehicle, a unique achievement, sacrificing just about everyone else in the process. Who deserves the money, if it ever materialises. My family do, but the firms who have done the work have done it at commercial rates. They have been brilliantly helpful, but where would there suggestions be without some nutter like me driving the whole thing forward.

Patents are a way of making rich lawyers richer. I have simply redefined myself as an artist. The saddlechariot and building the saddlechariot, and indeed selling the saddlechariot are part of my performance art and as such have worldwide copyright.

As an artist, I have the right to global protection for nothing. You common engineers are the ones who have to pay someone to stop your property being stolen, us artists deserve far better.

Simon.

Art is often not a truly planned imagination but something that results into from flow of ideas and appearances of objects of beauty in the jumbled ideas. Even though art is not to the scale of initial drawing in the head, it still has great elements of creativity of some one worth appreciating. Engineering is something that is planned and created and deviations are called error margins. Element of beauty in engineering has no real meaning and only functional capability is called a successful work. Bad engineering work if placed on top of hill then it may be called an art but not an engineered good any more unless that was the initial plan to create a bad thing and use it for appreciation alone. Then this is also a perfectly engineered work somehow.

I have visited one institute today. They say that they do not want to put any money on research but will like to get funds for something that can be called research. Such bad research I will call something of great art. It really pushed me in a black hole. I will have more such experiences in this year as I am to interact with 2000 institutes to see if they have any potential for research at all.

One scientist in the last seminar i attended wanted to ban all research on gas sensors as most of the people were doing same thing what others have done or were doing. He directly asked me my views on it. I am not the one to decide on who should do what, so I went against any such ban on research. I think people have right to learn the way they feel is fitting to their mental status.

Will the tea taste different if you take it in different styled cup. I think it will. There is always this element of what I like to do and what others want me to do is always very painful. Some people make it less painful by giving greater money by which you can buy something else that may compensate for the problem.

That the younger generation has to learn things to become smart is another patriotic idea and sometime that is used for business as well. Is it good to make others smart? I think if this gives you greater chance to survive then just do it.

My experiment is going to at massive scale involving several thousands of people, giving then training and support and gadgets to get ready to do something better than ever these people may do in their life. In other words, I am diverting the path of their destiny. Is it good? I think so. I am doing it just because I am convinced in this way right now and if I find things are going wrong then will change my course of action.

Were people smarter when there was no PC or are they somewhat better now. PC has changed the destiny of many in any way and so did the mobile phones, good faster vehicles, aeroplanes etc. some people always change the destiny of their own and that of others.

Coming to the base point now. People will get involved in your life without you ever knowing that they are in. You see things and your next action is affected by the changed environment.

if i have something i can offer from my field of expertise

i offer all i can

to someone who is interested enough to ask

i love watching someone better my idea

which in turn inspires me

my talents satisfy me when i see them fulfilled

even if its done by someone else

and he who hesitates

is just hesitating

ideas are limitless

implimentation is the only way to accomplish it

hence validating the "ideas" worth

there is no way i can accomplish all the ideas i have

a business has no control of ideas

ideas spread like the seeds of Monsanto

civilization is built on layers upon layers of recycled ideas

i used to be a "hoarder of techniques and concepts" it was a time of suffering

sincere peer apreciation and a belief that what your doing is the right thing

enjoying my work has become has become key

hope that helps

y.e.

Dead right. If you can benefit others and won't unless you are well paid, that says something about you. Of course if you can benefit others and get paid, great.

But benefiting others is worth it whatever.

Simon

Investing in young minds by giving them ideas and support is something that is more towards building civilization in steps. I agree with that point. People with special skill create more skilled people to let the skill and knowledge survive. You also part the knowledge to the deserving one and try to prevent its misuse.

Shyam, Yours is a classic situation. Here in the States an idea belongs to the one who can prove they came up with it first; check the laws were you are. Even if a company spends millions to develop and patent something, (I don't know if this has actually happened, but) it is possible for someone to come out of the woodwork with provable "prior art" and the company can ending up paying royalties. Here, as kind of insurance, one way to document one's idea is to write it up with drawings and mail it to yourself. Again check your country's laws. To develop the project, rather than hiring a consulting firm, you may consider hiring the experts you need. Of course have a lawyer draw up an iron clad security and nondisclosure contract. Let me know if this helps.

Dear GearHead+

Person with BASIC idea often tries to ignore work of others without which things will not see day light. I design circuits to develop technology for chemical sensing or radiation sensing which is my real aim. However, in the process many experts provide me their best technology that I simply use to create an effective solution to what i want and it is not the aim of any of those help this process. Perhaps, others are also in similar situation where they have their concept which is either in raw form or has been tested by them to be good for something. I think they all deserve credit for it and others also get credit for their good work in the process.

Scientific ideas are shared with clear goal to let the civilization prosper in time. It is always a small step and then many steps get attached to it and then civilization move way ahead from past.

Whether I have to do something or not to do something is often very personal idea as long as it is not a offence to the society. In fact the society gives us freedom to be special and puts greater confidence in us rather than putting fear and forcing us not to do anything that may otherwise be of problem to others. I think, we are not free from obligation to the society. Some time we think ourselves as wild animal so act like lion and think others are deer to be ignored. I think, the concept of equality to greater extent has placed a lot of restriction on what otherwise we may do.

It is perfectly all right, to be 100% selfish and greedy for money and power else we will not have such people all around us. We often ignore bad acts of such people and accept it as an essential evil. However, on common-man we place lots of restrictions and also accept these on self to show restrains.

From concept of Apollo system of Government or management in which only few people need to work and rest do whatever they like and the fruits of that small fraction which is capable to be freely distributed to the large population which is very casual type. This makes system to work in fairly good form.

We add one more element to it of power and lust for power and greed in managing the system and place them in the position of managers. They are something like King and Policeman and Army-man in one. We call them administrators up to the level of country President.

At lower level in small fraction are we scientists and engineers and lots of skilled workers who are like working ants making all difference to their culture and civilization. Some of them are extra ordinarily smart and some are not.

I have experience, I have ideas, I have technology and I have will power to involve other in learning system and I also want some money to survive. This is where I stand and my next step becomes well planned course of action. Education plus business on the bases of applied technology research that is one of the concept is to be time tested as working model. This model also brings in more skilled and motivated manpower into action over time. My world expands to many and I see myself in many and I survive here in working ideas of many, who may also carry it further. It also makes the ideology worth propagating. This concept is not at all new and has been practiced right from initial civilization appearance.

Creating a great monument on the bases of forced labor and torture may also look great. Such models are not accepted by civilizations and something thrashed out. Hence, hurting society to create anything that may look great is not an acceptable model. We still have to have some degree of this problem to run the system in the voluntary services as we have defense systems where we hire people to get them killed. People in power with lust of power give little value to their sacrifice. It is painful but I will not question it unless I find a solution to the problem. To concentrate on my aim, I need to close my eye to many things I dislike. I need to preserve my energy to put all of it to my set goal.

I am a man of mission and my mission is very important to me.

Here in the States an idea belongs to the one who can prove they came up with it first!

Oh no (IMHO) it doesn't!!! ..it's often their employer, even if the idea occurred in their 'own time', or the guy with the biggest wallet.

Del

Depends on where you receive the research/information from. It should be validated.

Such as this forum, I find a vast resource of info that is pretty much given paid with nothing more than gratitude, and that is not even asked for.

As mentioned earlier one might want a quick answer to solve a pressing problem, But to use it in research it has to have its proofs.

I have given as well as taken, and appreciate it. And its is up to each individual as to how far to go with it.

phoenix911

It is very much human nature not to keep mouth shut all the time. This also makes people to share their hard earned knowledge with others and people who take the ideas must respect it and at least acknowledge it. Remember the Bose Einstein Statistics where the name Bose appears first just because it was his idea that was communicated to Einstein. If Einstein can acknowledge the intellectual ideas of Bose then why now others? Only thieves will not acknowledge the source of ideas that make all difference to their life. It is a matter of great shame to claim other's ideas as one's own. Such people should go behind the bars.

I do my best to acknowledge sources of information, but I also read extensively. I can not tell you for a fact that a "brilliant idea" I have is, in fact, original, or is something that I retained from some reading I have done in the past. Trying to trace my ideas back to the source is quite often futile.

On the other hand, if I face a problem for which I do not have a ready solution, I will actively seek the work of others. If I find a solution that meets my needs, I will gladly pay for it, since it saves me a considerable investment of my own time and effort. There is, of course, a value trade--off- if your solution is inordinately expensive compared to the effort I need to develop an alternative solution, then I will seek elsewhere. If I do use your solution, and pay for it, I will still acknowledge the source of the solution to any and all interested parties, as well as any claims you have regarding patents or copyrights.

This applies to whether we are talking about "Intellectual Property" or a special tool, or even an automobile. Your ideas and products have value to me or to anyone else based on the utility I achieve with them. I make my living by solving problems for others. If you have the solution, I will gladly pass some of the customer's money on to you, as long as the customer is happy with the solution.

so true, and also to you cwarner7_11, in all we all can say that we built upon.

One one side clearly education means learning from others ideas, experience, stories, theories and formulations, on the other side there is commercial aspect of intellectual property which is meant to generate money and can not be freely used for commercial purposes by others. Governments in each country accept this to some extent in specific areas in order to let people get return on their investment.

Putting intellectual property in public domain also lets other to see and move on to next step if one has something in the brain better than the one projected so far and this becomes new intellectual property and has to make reference to the old idea from where new ideas differ considerably.

Any one can use any intellectual property for one's own use without having to buy intellectual property rights. Only restriction is that it must not have commercial aim. Mr. X has developed technology for very special water filter and have patent for it and I simply copy it and drink water in my house then it is just OK. If I copy and give to my neighbours even free of cost then I am hurting the business potential of Mr. X, which is restricted by law.

Hence, making intellectual property public is essential to have some sense of Patents and intellectual property rights. People try to hide information in order to keep the knowledge away from easy copiers. One such development was DuPont Teflon®.