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Tricky Problem

04/14/2008 1:46 AM

Can someone help me in writing an equation for this problem.

There are some pencils and some jars. If I put 4 pencils in each jar one jar is left empty. If I put 3 pencils in each jar one pencil is left out. How many Pencils and how many jars are there?

Someone help me with the equation in deriving the answer.

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#1

Re: Tricky Problem

04/14/2008 2:44 AM

I am a sucker for helping with school homework and a bit rusty as well (50 years is a long time)

Start by putting the words in a formula

J = jars @ P = pencils

J = P/4 + 1

P = 3xJ + 1

Now substitute one into the other

J = (3xJ + 1) / 4 + 1

multiply both sides by 4

4J = 3J + 1 + 4

4j - 3J = 5

J = 5

P = 3xJ + 1 = 16

Test in (J = p/4 + 1) = 16/4 + 1 = 5

Please cancel the above - I forgot to ask the color of the pencils and the material and dimensions of the jars.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Tricky Problem

04/14/2008 3:35 AM

I looked at it slightly differently ;

The number of pencils is the same in each case, so equating these..

P = 4(J - 1) = 3(J) + 1

4J - 4 = 3J + 1 .....take away 3J and add 4 to both sides;

→ J = 5

Putting the value of J back into line 1 ;

P = 4(5 - 1) or P = 3(5) + 1

=4 (4) = 15 + 1

= 16 = 16

It seems more complicated when written out !

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Tricky Problem

04/14/2008 5:02 AM

I am a jar person and I actually started with J = P/4 + 1 = (p-1)/3

mpy by 12 and ended with P=16.

When trying to explain I decided to do it the other way.

I think a lot of (not so good in math) children are confused by attempting do do it in one line.

What is the preferred method used by schools?

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#4
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Re: Tricky Problem

04/14/2008 5:22 AM

What is the preferred method used by schools?

It's been nearly as long for me ! The version I used was just an expression of the mental picture I had - I was visualizing the jars on the desk. It comes out all the same, but it's interesting to hear how different people 'see' a problem, even a fairly straight-forward like this. If I had a bit more time (and drawing skill !) I'd post a picture to illustrate, but I think it's reasonably clear. I may try and return with a picture, but hopefully somebody a bit quicker will do it.

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Tricky Problem

04/14/2008 5:48 AM

Yep, that's the way I did it too. I always try to figure out the answer before writing equations. I like math but ever since I found out it's also used by statisticians and accountants I just can't trust it.

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: Tricky Problem

04/14/2008 12:25 PM

LOL - It's a bit like giving sharp tools to monkeys !

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Tricky Problem

04/17/2008 3:39 PM

+ = TROUBLE!!!

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Tricky Problem

04/17/2008 3:47 PM

Nah, that's an 'armless chimp !

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Tricky Problem

04/18/2008 3:02 AM

Yep, they're sooo human ! Awesomely strong as well - a couple of years back a kid gots his arm yanked off at a local zoo. No problem at all for the cute looking chimp. There's a species of monkey (can't remember which) that's well documented as hunting and killing another species, though I dont' think they figured out for sure why they do it. Maybe it's like my "Have Dolphins gone mad ?" thread.

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#10
In reply to #3

Re: Tricky Problem

04/20/2008 9:37 PM

What is the preferred method used by schools?

1) Bus children Across town.

2) search childrens bags to assure no firearms.

3) Underpay and demotivate teachers.

4) Have assembly to teach children to avoid drugs.

5) Have assembly to build self esteem of children.

6) Lunchtime! Give Children surplus government cheese.

7) Fight breaks out on playground.

8) teacher takes injured student to office for first aid.

9) teacher fills out many forms, gets angry phonecall from parent and parents lawyer.

10) Teacher sends worksheet home with the jars and pencils problem telling the kids to have their parents help them figure this out.

11) Kid asks parents who if they do not come to CR4, say "I don't know, why would you need to know this if you are going to be a lawyer?" kid goes to law school.

12) Law schools graduate a bumper crop of innumerate legal velociraptors, whose natural prey is teachers and engineers and medical doctors, most of whom can do math.

13) Teachers retire early, tired of being sued over playground voilence.

14) Doctors retire early, leaving their practice due to high malpractice insurance premiums.

15) Engineers get laid off in droves as companies try to come up with budget monies for legal defense

16) Work gets outsourced to countries where students are taught mathematics in school and lawyers are not a significant cultural force.

milo

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Tricky Problem

04/21/2008 6:25 AM

O-M-G! You've cracked the code! Solving this is sooooo easy - stop the buses and don't search the backpacks! Natural selection takes over, and the next generation of lawyers either shoots each other or is scared into dropping out of school. Students with a little math ability will be able to figure their odds of survival without an education and graduate as future teachers, engineers, and doctors, with honors. Problem solved!

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: Tricky Problem

04/21/2008 9:38 AM

SHHHHHH! LEts keep this between us engineers.

milo

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