Which material is best with acetone flowing in it?

Hi, lawrence90!

A great big WELCOME to CR4 from a fellow participant. Keep on monitoring your incoming emails for an almost daily source of fascinating discussion topics with contributions from engineers in all engineering disciplines. I hope to see lots more of you in here, making your own great contributions and sharing your ideas.

I got the following information links for you to pursue by using Google. It probably matches the information you already looked up for yourself, but here it is anyway. There's lots more where this came from. I would use keywords like 'acetone', 'transport', 'containment', 'materials', etc. You might also type your question into ask.com: eg: "What is the best material for containing acetone?"

Mark

Yes MarkTheHandyman, your post #2 is good with a nice site.

Where they prefer carbon steel¹ storage tanks or pressure vessels. But for Aluminium² as a floating roof for API storage tanks, I don't prefer since its corrosion rate is higher as clear from NACE Code "Corrosion Data Survey, Metals Sections", but we recommend aluminium as a floating roof for its light weight.

From NACE Code:

1. Carbon Steel corrosion rate is 50 micron per year at different concentrations and temperatures.

2. Aluminium corrosion rate is 508 micron per year.

Hi, Abdel halim Galala!

What's really amusing about reading yours and Jack Jersawitz's replies is that when I was replying to lawrence90's in the 1st blog, I would have liked to send him both your URL's as reference leads along with what I gave him, and was actually thinking so at the time!!

It's really great that the two of you showed up in here like this. lawrence90, pay attention to these guys. They are really fine 'go-to' engineers for questions like this (as you have just discovered).

Mark

It's would be a big help to all of us if you clarified two variables: at what tempreture, and what pressure?

Thank you all.

So carbon steel is the best for acetone but in what composition?

Acetone is assumed to flow at 25 degress celcius and pressure is also assumed at normal pressure(usual pressure)

For carbon steel, its corrosion rate still the same for acetone concentration 100% in the temp. range from 10 ^oC up to 200 ^oC, whatever the induced pressure.

Oh alright.

Is it correct that Carbon Steel pipes can only last for 10-15 years? Because there isn't quite much information on the web about the lifespan of carbon steel pipes but instead carbon steel/fire bicycle frames.

If you speak about the lifespan of piping system, that is depend on the corrosion rate of carbon steel pipes. For carbon steel corrosion rate of 50 micron/year, this means that for 15 years lifespan the total corrosion shall be: (50 micron/year) x (15 year) = 750 micron, i.e. less than 1 mm. So, you can select a corrosion rate of 2 or 3 mm to be in the safe side to allow a lifespan for your piping system not less than 15 years.

Note. An additional tolerance of 12.5% of pipe wall thickness must be taken into consideration as per piping codes.

Hi there Abdel Halim Galala,

Would you mind explaining in a easier term?

Are you trying to say that the maximum number of years it can last is 15 years?

Also, i found out online that the price of carbon steel per tonne in USD is about USD $905... Which is cheaper than HDPE and PP? How can this be or is it possible?

Hi there lawrence90,

Are you trying to say that the maximum number of years it can last is 15 years?

No, I don't said that. If you need lifespan for your piping system to be 50 years, you can find the total corrosion that equal to (50 micron/year) x (50 year) = 2500 micron = 2.5 mm, also we can add an allowance for that calculated corrosion by 0.5 to 1.5 mm. In this case the total corrosion can becomes 3 up to 4 mm. Only you have to decide at the 1^st stage of design, how much the lifespan of your piping system you intend to select.

Very important note. Those 3 or 4 mm are not the thickness of the pipe itself, only those corrosion allowance to be added to the min. required thickness of pipe, tr. Please refer to your code of design to find out the min. required thickness of your piping system.

Very sorry Abdel Halim Galala,

I'm not an engineer or working adult. I'm just a student doing a project on acetone flowing through acetone resistant pipes. Thus i do not have any drawings or code of design.

I am only required to put down in my PPT slides the lifespan of a normal carbon steel pipe.

For calculating the pipe wall thickness, and the remaining lifespan of a piping system, please refer to the following examples located at CR4 threads: High Pressure Steam Pipe & Pipe minimum allowable thickness .

Dear Eng/ abd elhalim,

Shall I have your contact?

QA/QC ENG: AMR SOLIMAN

PETROJET-EGYPT

your vessel and pipes are of couse very important; however you should not forget about the connections and valves. corrosion of the connecting surfaces is of course twice that of the pipe wall ie two pipe walls meeting, you therefore need to either seal the acetone from the joint; allow for the corrosion somehow or use a noncorrosive material. Valves have similar problems. You might want to consider Bronze/nylon valving as used in Acetylene cylinders (the Acetylene is dissolved in acetone to prevent it exploding - these cylinders are completely filled with Acetone in a porous ceramic encased in a steel pressure bottle).

Acetone is a dangerous and highly volatile flammable organic solvent that is heavier than air. Did someone here talk about floating covers???

It is also of a class of solvents called keytones. Keytones are what your body produces when you are a diabetic and you have not taken enough insulin to process carbohydrates and fats.

Before even thinking of what to contain it in I would be looking at issues as to any involvement with it at all.

I copied a couple of articles on the substance below. I would run like hell before becoming involved with any but the smallest amounts of that stuff.

I myself have been exposed industrially to the stuff. No matter how happy and bright when I arrived for work a couple hours later I was angry and looking for a fight. I also experienced headaches.

Although exposed early on in my life I have no doubt it contributed to my current Chronic Pulmonary Obstructive Decease.

j.

From an article by US Occupational Safety and Health Administration:

Millions of workers are exposed to solvents on a daily basis. Health hazards associated with solvent exposure include toxicity to the nervous system, reproductive damage, liver and kidney damage, respiratory impairment, cancer, and dermatitis. Solvents share many chemical, physical, and biological properties that warrant national attention be directed to them as a group.

From a publication by the Centre for Disease Control in Atlanta, USA by J. Donald Millar, M.D., D.T.P.H. (Lond.), Assistant Surgeon General, Director, National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, Centers for Disease Control. Epidemiologic studies of various groups of solvent-exposed workers have demonstrated statistically significant chronic changes in peripheral nerve function (sensory and motor nerve conduction velocities and electromyographic abnormalities) that persisted for months to years following cessation of exposure. Epidemiologic studies have also shown statistically significant increases in neurobehavioral effects in workers chronically exposed to organic solvents. These effects include disorders is characterized by reversible subjective symptoms (fatigability, irritability, and memory impairment), sustained changes in personality or mood (emotional instability and diminished impulse control and motivation), and impaired intellectual function (decreased concentration ability, memory, and learning ability). Among organic solvent abusers, the most severe disorders reported are characterized by irreversible deterioration in intellect and memory (dementia) accompanied by structural CNS damage.

From an article by Capt Mario E. Fajardo M.D., of the US Public Health Service

Organic solvents are a distinct group of substances characterized by their ability to dissolve oils, fats, plastics, rubber and resins.

Amongst those organic solvents commonly used, ketones are chemically stable substances, which include acetone, methyl ethyl ketone, methyl isobutyl ketone, and diisobutyl ketone. Exposure to high concentration of these agents can produce narcosis, headaches, nausea, vomiting, dizziness, loss of coordination, and loss of consciousness. At lower doses they can induce irritation of the eyes and respiratory passages and slow central nervous system activity. Respiratory failure and death have been reported with exposure to these agents.

Most solvents irritate the mucous membranes of the eyes, nose and throat with the eyes being the most sensitive.

The initial manifestation is typically a burning sensation, resulting from stimulation of the trigeminal nerve endings of the nose and eyes, although a cough may also be apparent as a result of stimulation of the laryngeal nerve endings in the throat. Aspiration of solvents into the lung can result in rapid and severe pulmonary damage. Heavy exposures are commonly manifested by cough, chest tightness and loss of breath.

Organic solvents account for approximately 20% of occupationally induced dermatitis with this condition being most commonly localized to the hands. The hands are commonly affected while cleaning with solvents, by accidents, or by not using proper protective equipment. The main effect of solvents results from the dissolving of fats from the skin, which with repeated exposures will result in a red, dry, itchy skin. Consequently, as a result of the defatting action the permeability of the skin to other toxic substances is increased thus enhancing the potential for skin absorption. Repeated exposures can lead to the development of an irritant contact dermatitis, a condition that accounts for 90% of the reported occupational skin diseases.

Prolonged exposure and absorption may even cause a chemical burn.

Inhalation of organic solvents may cause a progression of symptoms from an initial euphoria to lethargy, dizziness, staggering gait, coma and death- not unlike symptoms associated with alcohol intake.

Hi Jack,

Very good information regarding occupational hazards faced by industrial workers.

Hi Lawrence 90 and others,

you should be more specific on the use of your acetone: is any contamination allowed?

In semiconductor fabrication in quartz oscillator fabrication in simple surface coating none of the above discussed carbon steels would be allowed because the corrosion products will contaminate the fabricated parts.

Is there any fire hazard in your planned factory? If so no plastic parts are to be recommended, so stay with SS although much more expensive than other choices.

To my knowledge - needed to be verified - the corrosion rate from acetone is due to its acid content that is renewed by atmospheric or other ?oxidising action.

So a filter (heap of chalk) that removes any acid and normalises pH may be a recommendable improvement.

If you further proceed with aluminum tubing (search first which of the many alloys are recommended) then search for internal anodising. This is rarely done but vastly improving corrosion data.

RHABE

Acetone is routinely handled in laboratory envirnoments in polyethylene squeeze bottles. So I woudl say PE or HDPE are suitable.

If you aren't worried about trace level impurities any common metallic tubing or piping can be used (steel, 304SS, 316 SS, brass, copper, Al). If you want many many years of service, there may be a concern, but I doubt it. I have a one gallon steel can of acetone that is about 10 years old and there is barely visible corrosion inside the can (its nearly empty).

As for toxicity, it's a good idea to avoid contact with any chemicals, but acetone is not one likely to cause problems with normal precuations.

There are many factors to consider.

An important one is the end use of the acetone. If used in semi-conductor manufacture, it must be maintained at extremely high purity -and that requires special construction methods and materials. Design and construction considerations are extremely detailed for that service and beyond the capability of this forum to enumerate.

If the end use is a general purpose solvent, then carbon steel piping and tanks are preferred for several reasons: Lowest first cost, long life (>30 years), fire safety, easy construction, high pressure capability (low risk of bursting from hydraulic hammer,etc.)

If the quantities stored and flow rates are small (less than 5 GPM), stainless steel tubing is a good material. Carbon steel tubing with compression fittings is also a good choice for up to 100 GPM (2" ID). Fire safety considerations may require seal welding tubing compression fittings. Avoid flanged connections in piping so far as possible, and use raised face flanges and spiral wound blue asbestos filler gaskets if flanged connections are necessary.

Thanks all for your help!

I've handed in my ppt slides and my lecturer said it was great!

Thanks all very very much!