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cyntrifigual force

05/17/2008 8:13 PM

hi just wondering about chemical properties when pushed to the edge of a cylinder moving real fast. lets take water or a basic property. can you seperate these bonds of hydrogen and oxygen? what if a third chemical was added like oxygen. out of the 2 would it attract oxygen to oxygen or hydrogen to hydrogen?

i know when mixing foods this works but very curious to know on a basic gas principle? any help would be appreciated or leads or websites thx

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#1

Re: cyntrifigual force

05/17/2008 9:39 PM

Hello howie doing?

The bonds between Hydrogen and Oxygen in Water are chemical, at the molecular level, because the gases are not just physically mixed.

If you have a mixture of gases, these are able to be separated either by diffusion through a set of porous filters, centrifugal action, or magnetic diffusion.

The reason is simple: The gases are mixed together, but the atoms have not chemically combined to make a different compound.

A major early use of both the diffusion also the centrifugal process for separating elements was in the 1940's, where in the form of Uranium Hexafluoride gas, (U = Uranium) U235 and U238 were separated for use in atomic weapons and for atomic reactors in power stations.

Because the mixture was heated to vaporisation, and the U238 molecules were slightly heavier and larger than the U235 molecules, the heavier U238 moved more to the outside of the centrifuges, and thus slowly became separated after repeated runs through the centrifuges.

Likewise in the diffusion process, the smaller and lighter U235 passed more readily through the diffusion filters, and after repeated passes through the diffusers, became more and more concentrated.

Magnetic separation is also used as a further refinement.

Refer: http://www.landmarkminerals.com/u235.html

At a very early age I learned to use a milk separator, where by centrifugal action and diffusion via a set of closely spaced "cup-shaped plates", which were spun at high speed, the cream separated out, with cream from one spout, and skim milk from the other.

Trust that assists you.

Kind Regards....

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: cyntrifigual force

05/18/2008 5:27 PM

thanks that is exactly what i wanted to know sparkY!!!! i love this site. i asked about 10 guys in ft mac n got half answers... cheers

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#3
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Re: cyntrifigual force

05/18/2008 7:09 PM

Nice job SParkomatic.

milo

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#4
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Re: cyntrifigual force

05/18/2008 11:12 PM

however the strong chemical bonds in water cannot be separated by centrifugal forces. Similarly with uranium, you are separating mechanically the heavier fractions of UF6 in a cascade manner that typically requires many thousands of theoretical plates.

http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/fact-sheets/enrichment.html

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#5
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Re: cyntrifigual force

05/18/2008 11:17 PM

Hello aurizon

Yes, the uranium enrichment process is neither speedy, nor cheap.

Kind Regards....

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#7
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Re: cyntrifigual force

05/19/2008 2:05 PM

I assume that is why the facilities for these separations were so huge.

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#8
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Re: cyntrifigual force

05/19/2008 3:28 PM

yes, the separation per centrifuge or per diffusion cell is very small, neccessitating enormous numbers of them in countercurrent cascade as well as in many parallel banks. The plutonium bomb is easier to make.

we are lucky it is so hard or there would be a lot more of them

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#9
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Re: cyntrifigual force

05/19/2008 5:41 PM

Sparky, nice photo. The cream separator brings back old memories!

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#6

Re: cyntrifigual force

05/19/2008 11:04 AM

One of the issues with the structure of whirling water at extremely high accelerations might be the structure of its container.

At what point does the water separate and the presumably crystalline structure of the container not (philosophical question, for illustration purposes)?

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#10

Re: cyntrifigual force

05/20/2008 8:02 PM

This may not help, but your post reminded me of a concept I was working on a few years back in the pharmaceutical industry.

A company contracted me to develop a new process to replace a chromatography column, (I believe because that process was locked up in patents, and the process has been around for a while and they were looking for a new process) see link;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Column_chromatography

I had developed a centrifuge type concept with this in mind, using the same principles as the chromatography column.

Your comment; i know when mixing foods this works

as well as sparkstation's picture looks like a form of centrifuge called a separator in the dairy industry, to separate the cream. They spin at approx. 4000 rpm.

phoenix911

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Users who posted comments:

agua_doc (1); aurizon (2); howie doing? (1); Milo (1); phoenix911 (1); PWSlack (1); Ried (1); Sparkstation (2)

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