I am leaving

I feel he may never see this, but I'm sorry he felt he had to leave. He said a lot of good things on this site.

Don't know if you'll see this, case, but you'll be missed. All the best in the future.

BTW - if you do see this, how about coming back now'n'again as a sensible Guest? You could even come back with another CR4name & avatar - build a wall, if you want, but don't just go, please?

Damn, I'm gonna miss case491. I hope nobody is deliberately screwing up GA ratings. I realize they have little extrinsic value, but it's always good to know other members think you're not dumber than a post everyday.

I just want to say for the record that guests cannot vote posts as "good answers" or "off-topic". Only registered members of CR4 have this right.

The CR4 Admin can and does track such votes. We know who voted and caused case491 to lose some of his good answers. I'm hoping he or she will come back and explain what happened. It seems to be a simple mistake, not a malicious activity.

- Chris

"It seems to be a simple mistake, not a malicious activity." How about publishing the voting activity on how much energy is required to make 8000 lbs accelerate to 50 MPH from 0?

Bullshit Chris.

And face it many believe GA means "right" answer - were this a measure I would have 40 odd and I wouldn't have to be putting up "no stay and debate" to such as Fyz for similar major smart folk undergoing 'vote bias of fact' disenchantment.

Now from this I assume you know how and when I vote. Has it occurred to you that publishing the vote / un-votes might be a way of 'encouraging' responsible voting?

Hello case491

Sorry to read your Post, and see you are currently down to 4 GA Points.

In the CR4 system, Guests cannot actually vote. (I just checked that once again)

So your lost GA points must have occurred either by a failure of CR4 Forum Software, or a logged-in Member or Members who have "Voted" against your GA rating/s, to reduce the GA total, in various Posts made by yourself.

The GA system does rely on mature Members, not all of whom will agree with each other, and are thus able to add or deduct from the GA total in a Post or Posts.

To deliberately "hunt down" a Member's GA Points Posts does not seem to be the actions of a rational person, rather it appears to be malicious in nature.

The GA point system is like music, subjective rather than objective, after all each person is entitled to their own viewpoint and opinion.

The CR4 Forum logs should be able to reveal all, should the CR4 Admin have time to look through the logs, and perhaps make a decision based on what is found.

I value you as a thinking person, as you have contributed much to the CR4 Forum, and if you really decide never to return, we shall all be the poorer for your leaving.

If you read this, perhaps you may consider that your CR4 Membership is valued by most of us, and not let some "wrecker" ruin your ability to share your experience and wisdom with others.

Kind Regards from far away....

GA. I think those who dissagree with a posted answer should be able to check "Bad Answer" then have to explain why. Just adding three words should do it. If I ran this Rodeo I would remove the anonymous option, as I have seen other such forums degenerate into rant sessions that force out serious posters.

That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it. Be responsible for what you post.

Carl

Sad to see you go Case. I remember when you joined us! You always seemed to be up there from the start! It's a shame something like the GA system ( which to the regulars is enjoyable but not essential) has had such a negative effect.

May I suggest to members a 'Save the case491' GA donation post where all the GA's posted get assigned by ADMIN to the 'save the case491 Fund' (ie back to case491)

Local 491 was my Union Local Number for IATSE. So I always paid attention, wondering if he was a brother. I felt he was succinct and practical, with a reserved sense of imagination, as written.

It is of course true that some people will play dirty tricks.

I myself rejected practical jokes and such when I pushed a girl I liked off a raft and she got a splinter from it.

Some people of value can think up practical jokes, like those guys that figure out how to get access to all the Grid Controler's Computer, and hence the Grid, by sending out a dummy message about their pensions.

So it is not exactly of useless value that a manipulation has occurred. Of course I believed my "Best Answer" ratings were only valid really till a better answer came along. Possibly a Foundational Good Answer would be a good ego category, similiar to Sports Records, that are made to be broken?

Money, Ideology, Compromise, and Ego spells mice. I have a fairly secure eqo myself, though sometimes I've been co-dependent. Overall I like to think of myself as ideologically or ethically driven over the motivations of my ego, or money, but without a doubt I will do things for money because I am compromised.

I suggest Mr. 491 be sent a private message by any friends that have a back up independent of CR4 message. He may be interested in my recent argument with Eurporium about String Theory and whether or not a vision is unique and possible to come from another universe, and how that evolved.

Transcendian

Hello case 491,

I hope you can see this though I doubt it. I have just started talking to you and you choose to go. I have noticed the uncontrollability of guests. I wasn't aware they could interfere with the votes and voting system.

I know the owners of the site will see this..............can you not do something about the way guests are pushing experts out? We are talking about truly helpful people?

As has been said, you could come back with a different name and avatar and maybe even leave some info' about yourself from your profile?

Take care friend...............

jfmfit

Hello jfmfit

Guests cannot Vote at all, that's the way the CR4 Forum Software has been set up.

Refer: http://cr4.globalspec.com/comment/231270/Re-I-am-leaving

Kind Regards....

Hello Sparkstation,

I have read your link and cannot really understand what Case was talking about?

I know now after your post guests cannot vote or alter the voting system in any way. Being a new boy I just did not know at first that guests did not vote.

I to have left a message for case as have you and others to wish him all the best and stuff. But, if, as he says he will not be coming to the site again, he will not see them?

Can you please confirm I have not made a huge mistake here.............I thought I read his last post in the General section and thought it had a date of sep 2007. Can you let me know what you think please? Or may be I had a couple too many beers?

I will miss case if he does stay away. Do not understand why he cares so much about any thumbs-up good answer marks either though?

Take care

jfmfit

Hello jfmfit

case491's last Post in the General Section was: http://cr4.globalspec.com/comment/231104/Re-What-Are-The-Top-10-SciFi-Movies

The reference date of September 2007, refers to case491's Join CR4 Date:

Join Date: Sep 2007

Posts: 1963

Good Answers: 7

The above I have just Copy/Pasted from that above Post.

Trust that explains the date for you.

The problem appears to be that in a very short period, case491's GA points suddenly decreased, as he explained above, because a Member/Members went through his listing of Posts with GA Points, and voted "Not a Good Answer", and each time that a negative Vote was entered, it cancelled a "Good Answer" Vote.

This may have been a genuine mistake, we don't know, CR4 Admin do know the person/persons who did those action/s, because every action on any Forum, including this CR4 Forum, is retained in the Forum Log.

That is the way the GA Points system works, because it is based on opinion of the Voter = the Vote is not Objective, (without personal opinion), but is Subjective (with personal opinion).

Example 1: A Mechanical Engineer who does not understand Electronics very well, while reading an Electronics Post, may decide a Member's Post did not warrant a GA Point, because he/she does not realise the answer given was truly excellent, and may decide to give it a "Negative Point", which subtracts from the Member's GA Point total.

Example 2: A Mechanical Engineer, who does not understand much about Electronics, may read a Member's Post in the Electronics part of CR4 Forum, and because he/she thinks that Post explained the answer well, give a "positive" GA Point, although the answer may in fact be incorrect, but the Mechanical Engineer did not know the given answer was incorrect.

Likewise similar examples may be made for any part of the CR4 Forum.

In the same way, we all have different opinions and tastes. The world would be totally boring if we were all identical in every way.

In music, some may like Rock, Hip-hop, Grunge, which I personally dislike, as I prefer Symphonic Music, Southern Gospel, Bluegrass, Country & Western type of music. You can see I am an easy-going sort of person.

Likewise, in Art, some may like modern art paintings by Pablo Picasso, but I like Landscapes by John Constable, because to my eye they are more real to life, almost photographic when viewed from a distance, and have required much more skill than "splotchy distorted modern art".

See how I've used emotive words there, "splotchy distorted", in a disparaging way, so that I may perhaps persuade you to my way of thinking (Untrue, that was done just for an example).

Just an aside: Pablo Picasso's last words, as he lay dying, were: "I've had the last laugh on the Art World", (More true than he realised), and he left his personal fortune of some US$700 million to the Communist Party of Spain.

So you can see that the GA Point system cannot ever be purely objective, because we all have different experiences, and members may Rate (For or Against) according to that life experience, or perhaps the Post was just very interesting, or even a good joke.

I did decide to place an advisory Post whenever I give a GA Point, but I did not decide that until the last couple of weeks.

Kind Regards....

Hello Sparkstation,

thanks for the explanation. I have been thinking of it a lot since a posted my last posts to you and more or less figured out what happened.

Perhaps there should be a 'good joke' button? It seems hardly fare all points gained by good answers and perhaps a huge amount of investigation can be lost on an apparently 'negative' way of voting.

I thank you for explaining the date confusion as well. I thought I was going crazy!

Take care.............

jfmfit

1. i didn't do it

2. My GA score schould be much greater

the man?

I now officially found from this thread the Transcendian Anarchist Oxymoron Party.

How dare Pablo Picasso give his money to the Communists!

Anarchy is the ultimate educational and defensive governmental institution.

The progression was supposed to be from Socialism to Communism, to Anarchy.

Actually Anarchy and Technocracy had no quarrel with Capitalism.

The mistake was not to factor in all and make clear the conflict with Fascism and Oligarchy.

It is a good idea to create an Anarchist Party because it is such an oxymoron in the minds of so many, but actually legitimate.

The first bit of business for the Anarchist Party is to found an International Bank that co-ordinates Barter Brokers with the modern Banking System.

Educated people need to recognize that money is a fiction unleashed by a ideological war working people get near to nothing out of.

The history of Detroit is a horror story.

Tata and GM need to merge.

Odd how this note was produced from the case491 withdrawal note.

The Wild Palms by William Faulkner is an odd book, and does capture some of the way I put the world together.

Odd how this note was produced from the case491 withdrawal note.

Odd indeed...

You must have stood too close to that nuclear explosion .

I lately, hardly ever comment here on CR4, although I keep reading it from time to time. This is due to my new occupation which leaves me with a much tighter time scope than before.

As it so happened, I got into this new course, more or less around the time the "good answer score" system was introduced, so expectedly or not, my score it at the lowest level.

This however, does not discourage me from trying to do my best, whenever I do get around to post, because for me, this is not about a popularity contest, or any other contest, for that matter.

I am content with what I write, in that whenever I feel that I wrote anything worthwhile, contributing something to this gem of a site, I managed to fight off a little bit of ignorance, in our knowledge-depleting present of New-Age voodoo.

All in all, I feel rather good that I found this site, and quite happy being able to contribute something to it, even if today, it's much less than I could afford in past times.

Sorry if this sounds lame and succinct, but if a person is going to get all butt hurt about what a guest has to say, or if he loses GA's for that matter, maybe there is an underlying problem here (not here as in CR4 but as in his life, I am not a psych or anything but still)... I would not have a problem with giving case491 extra GA's or whatever it was that was mentioned in one of these responses 'cause it doesn't seem right that a person should feel the need to leave because (hmmmmmmmm, think, think) of anothers agenda...but, honestly is this all that matters to some people? GA's? Fraternization, dissemination of ideas and knowledge is what this site is based on, or did I miss something along the way, don't know... I feel that whoever it was that conspired against; though, should be lashed with a wet noodle and told to play fairly (just kidding about the wet noodle)

Hey admin, why not send case491 an email of apology from the offender? (Right there it is starting to sound like an elementary school resolution, I know) Would that help? I wonder if the instigator would be able to 'man' up to do that simple task?

Hasta luego (see you later) case491 you will be missed

Cheers

Hello Ferris,

my suggestion is to alto the voting system.

Have one vote for Good Answer.

Have a different vote for best funny or comic drawing GA.

I had two GA, but one was lost by votes to a funny picture post on the same subject.

jfmfit

Hello Sparkstation,

thanks for the explanation. And, it did help.

The post I refer to where I was getting a GA at the start of the post, on its first day was the one about how to work safely over a pool, Paraphrased, but that is roughly right. It was after a dew days I thought perhaps I was home and clear with only my second GA. When a pic of a man on steps using a power drill with the steps standing in the pool won something like 40 or 50 points, so I lost out.

As I said maybe there should be another category for funny pics or drawing or remarks to vote for?

Thanks for the reply.........

take care

jfmfit

I too have been offended by comments made by members of the forum (as Case491 has) though not to the same degree.

I have to agree - why get all butt hurt?

Leaving is like taking poison so that the other might die.

Yes Case491, you willbe missed. And I never learned what the 491 was.

Here's a wacky idea - let's just do away with the GA point system.

Apparently, it doesn't matter to most of us anyway and I thought we were here to help each other out.

Sadly, because of such nonsense, we have lost one of the people in this forum that we all look to in each one of us for answers and guidance.

(and don't be giving me no GA points)

Gonna miss ya case - Take care.

Hate to see you go case, especially for such a trivial thing (this is of course my opinion so do not take away any of my GA.......not that I have any for you to take). This forum, like everything else in life, is going to grow and move in new directions. It will evolve to emulate those using and moderating it and I do not think quitting has a positive impact on growth or on those who respect and appreciate your opinion.

Besides, isn't this the reaction the person(s) who took away your GA wanted? Why give them the satisfaction?

Hello FSTLNE,

I completely empathise with what you say. The GA points are important because it is your fellow members voting to say "well done". I think there should be an additional voting class called best funny picture or piece. As I lost one of my GA by people voting for another funny picture.

I have reason to believe some-one close to me worked together with a friend to arrange votes which meant I lost one or two of my last votes I had. Which proves the votes can be screwed, if enough effort is put to it!

Anyway the person/s to blame do not have voting rights now.

Lets hope we see case back in the near future...............?

jfmfit

That sounds like a good idea to me John.

Hello JohnDG:

I think you make a very fair point.

I think that once the three votes needed for a 'thumbs-up' has been reached that should not be allowed to be voted down or off.

This is not aimed at case in anyway but, the irony is, I lost an already gained GA by people voting for Case who sent a funny picture, on the question of "how to safely span a swimming pool to work on a roof".

I think there should be a 'funny' vote option also.

GA's are more than a vote to say well done and thank you. They also say 'we trust your ideas and points of views'. It is not as some have suggested, a vote in a childish kind of way, or anything to do with 'the old boys network'.

It is as I say, a vote for someone you the members trust, and have voted for the helpful advice.

It can possibly cut 'off-topic' remarks that can get tedious where you are complimented on your post advice on any one particular topic. Those are nice to see but, if there was no voting system, there would be possibly a lot more of those complimentary remarks, which just serve to take more time to answer the original topic.

jfmfit

Hi, jfmfit,

Thanks for your support of the idea, but I must point out that you cannot have lost any GA's by anyone rating another post.

It takes an intentional action directed to your post (i.e. someone must click 'RATE' and vote against your post) to lose you 'points' and thus to lose a GA 'thumb'. Any rating made to any other post in the thread will have no effect.

Best regards, John.

Hello JohnDG

OK, sorry I got things wrong.

I was advised by an Admin' of CR4 that someone close to me and their friends did vote in such a way that I lost the only two GAs I had. I have an email where this is said to have happened. These peoples voting rights have been removed.

I will send it to your private email.

jfmfit

Hi JohnDG,

I sort of know what jfmfit means. I think he may lost points that would have been leading to a GA. Is that right jfmfit?

babybear

Hi, babybear,

Certainly sounds like someone 'stitched him up'. Hope it was all resolved OK.

John.

OK - although I won't concede totally, I will give in a bit.

_{GA's are more than a vote to say well done and thank you. They also say 'we trust your ideas and points of views'. It is not as some have suggested, a vote in a childish kind of way, or anything to do with 'the old boys network'.}

jfmfit has a very good point, about "trust". I see now that it is a qualified metric that is valid, however,

JohnDG's idea has merit to the point that the "GA" should not be manipulated as it can be now.

Now a little clarification; I recently reinstated my membership here with a new name and avatar due to not being able to log in under the old one for some reason (hence no GA points). I've been a member here as Camillion for the last three years while employed with another company. I truly believe what I said earlier about the exchange of ideas and that we should regard everything we discuss objectively.

I look forward to this everyday and occasionally engage as well as start a discussion.

Most of the time I have questions and the first place I go is to you folks. Because I TRUST the answers I receive!

Hello Camilliontwo1

I thank you for the calming of your recalcitrance. No offence intended......................Phew, that was a big one (he says wiping head!). I personally, and I think it is true of most members whom post answers and help, do not write in to get GAs. But when you are voted one or more points, whether you get enough for a GA or not, it shows, particularly new-comers, and those not certain about what is being discussed, thay are on track?

I am still getting over that long word in the first sentence!.................. But, as I said before I think trust is as big a reason for people voting as anything else.

I hope you see what I mean in this next bit...........I lost my two GAs because people close to me voted all my posts 'off-topic'. That is information I got from admin anyway. (I cannot go into detail, as the site is not a slanging forum). The loss of the votes, my first thought was what have I done wrong, and are they going to chuck me off the site. And the loss of the points by negative voting meant more to me than the gaining of the points in the first place.

I think as you said and JohnDG said (I think) once you have a point, not a GA, that point should not be able to be culled by negative votes from someone who does not see things the way you do, or as you say, for misunderstanding a post. I know that the reason I was voted off topic had nothing at all with anything on any posts I replied to. It was a personal thing.

I hope Admin are reading this, as I officially am asking them to alter the voting so no votes are lost, and to instate a new voting choice for 'best funny' as well as good answer.

Take care, and all my best to the people who have put a lot of thought into it on this post!

jfmfit

jfmfit -

I do concur (Omygosh, I got a point - tee hee).

Anyway, I do believe Mr Leonard is monitoring and hopefully things may change.

I see that it is a justifiable asset to this forum and I would like to see it benefit the readers, not upset the posters.

Nice word by the way - had to look it up - it applies. I tend to be hard to deal with sometimes. But it is hard to argue with logic (my wife tries ALL the time!).

See ya

Hello Camilliontwo1:

this is not aimed at you. I just got a little fed up with posts decrying the GA as selfish and of no import. I am relatively new to the site so wanted to take things easy and try to understand and think about why people voted in the first place. With a lot of help from other more regular and helpful posters of course.

I realised there is no way anyone can 'buy' a GA. So comments made saying did people only visit the site to gain GAs, are just ridiculous.

That said......................I have lots more words, I just do not know what they mean LOL!

Take care OK......................

jfmfit

Hello JohnDG:

It is really nice to know at least a few people understand and feel the same way.

I have been looking at the 'I am leaving' post and have started a new discussion asking for a different voting system. You were a big influence in the phrasing of the question.

I put it as a new question in the General section, as, strictly speaking this post where I am writing started with a different origin. If you think I should repost to the engineers then I will. I would welcome your opinion please.

babybear

For what it's worth...

I like the GA system and find it useful. I have a tendency to be crabby and when some nummy asks, "What is the diameter of 1/2" tube?", I may answer just "Wiki!". If I see that I've gone several weeks without a GA, then I adjust my meds so that I answer, "Please consider looking at Wikipedia, you flaming fool."

And, if I find that I've gone several weeks without losing a point to the hydrogen, buckeyball, magnetic motor motor, over-unity crowd, then I stop my meds altogether since I'm in danger of being released from the "special home" where my family keeps me except on Boxing Day.

I gave you a GA just to help your meds go down.

Oh no! there goes that stupid song in my head again - "Just a spoon full - -" Arrg!

Hi Shadetree:

like the song and, it has helped, your vote I mean............Pinch of salt taken LOL!

babybear

Hi TVP45,

if you do not tell anyone you are still in the 'home', I will say nothing, OK?

Anyway, and I know I could be pushing my luck...........eerrrmmmmm, what is the size of a ½" pipe? Wish you luck with the fight against your Meds! I also wish you many GA's.

babybear

Like I posted in my earlier... I think people are getting all butt hurt about this GA thing (pardon my french... it is a construction thing)... If there were to be a not so good answer, or a boy that really sucked answer, or a get a clue answer, then maybe moer people would defect and/or decide that they were not going to be posting any (or as many) posts as they normally would post. Now for those that are purists, I know that this would be the ideal thing. Less chatter back and forth... I think that an anti GA thing might be a good thing... But I wonder if it would be able to used with intelligence and not as a way to "get back at someone" or vote down a person "because of a misunderstood statement..." I do not know... my vote would have to be with sticking with GA's and a GA for gags or pics or something, I think it might have an adverse effects on certain individuals that seem preoccupied by not having enough GA's...

Cheers

Case - This is an un-logged in EnviroMan saying I hope you reconsider. I'll be in touch by other means to try to persuade you whether you like it or not!

I am just wondering how a person logged in as guest can not vote to give a GA, but can recieve a GA. I just saw this on a differrent thread that I am on and I thought of this one and wnated to ask the ???? Why ???? Am I missing something here? Or is it the long hours toiling away in the 100+ heat that is taking away from my senses?

A good answer is a good answer. Members may chose to answer anonymously, whereas non members are Guests, and only Guests. To me this makes enough sense to justify the different treatment. Ben Franklin was a good scientist and political scientist, ambassador, and writer. He said that in some cases anonymity was justified, for otherwise the truth could not be told. Therefore it is the same sort of arrangement from my point of view, and I respect the administrators and founders of the site for it, as an option. I myself have only posted as a Guest when I had forgotten my password, and was having a computer breakdown problem. Still, for some members, I will allow for the option, and defer to Ben Franklin, and CR4 administrators. I do agree with the change whereby there are no more, "Almost Good Answers.". I think my first question was about Septic Tank Batteries. In the end of it, if you are a member, and you provide a good answer as a Guest, anonymously, you, and only you know what your real score on the rates is, and that is cool.

Guests have no way of rating posts "Good" or "Bad", so that if a malicious registered user is loose on a rampage of "Bad" markings all over the place, like suggested somewhere above, it narrows down such malicious population into half, and the site administrators will be able to track this unusual activity down.

Damnit, this thread is almost a year old... I had not forgotten it, I haven't really thought much about it either... This is one argument that will keep rearing up its ugly head: Why is it so easy for me to lose my GA's? If another member of this forum has an issue with me why should they be able to go and "attack" me the opnly way that they see fit - by voting against my GA's (that were given to me by others that saw/enjoyed what it was that I was trying to convey)?

I haven't really been spending too much time here at CR4 for awhile because of my job - I am working almost 60 hours a week building a power plant and letting my son go onto a site built for Autistic kids. The one thing that I do not miss is this arguement. There are so many other things in the world to worry about in life. I have had a few GA's erased and this kinda bummed me out... Honestly though, I look at it as all of you here in this forum having your own ideas and expressing them however you see fit. Rather than voicing an opinion, you go to a comment and check it that it wasn't really that great of an answer. Do I think this is right? No. If there are going to be GA's awarded to any poster here, they should be allowed to keep them, as well as, keep a NG (No Good) or thumbs down award as well...

Problem with this is that someone will get their panties all in a ruffle because they are carrying around an NG or a thumbs down mark (Right along side of their GA mark) and start crying.

My opinion on this matter is stated above: once it is awarded, it should not be able to be voted away... Huh, where is my tissue? I, I am feeling tooooooo emotional about this ...

Just kidding...Maybe this thread should be allowed to stay in its cyber world from here on out... I am still going to be subscribed to it just to see how long it is until the next comment comes about...

Cheers

Ferris