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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2

rust cleaner

06/28/2008 4:43 PM

I want to clean the obstinate rust before applying paint. Will some one name the chemical that can be used as rust cleaner before applying paint.

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Anonymous Poster
#1

Re: rust cleaner

06/28/2008 5:51 PM

Not sure which one you are looking for, there are many. Perhaps you are looking fort oxalic acid.

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Anonymous Poster
#2
In reply to #1

Re: rust cleaner

06/28/2008 11:25 PM

Phosphoric acid or any diluted acid (muriatic or sulphuric) will remove rust. Be careful not to spill it on you, your clothes, or anything you don't want to dissolve. Wear rubber gloves and don't breath in the fumes as you pour. After dissolving the rust flush the metal with running water and neutralize any remaining acid with an alkaline solution (baking soda will do). Dry and paint the metal soon afterward or it will quickly form a rust coating again.

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#10
In reply to #2

Re: rust cleaner

06/30/2008 7:34 AM

Yep. Aftermarket vehicle parts specialists sell it as "Jenolite" (usual disclaimer) for treating steel surfaces prior to applying primer. "Red oxide" is probably the best primer for steel, with 2 coats being considered a minimum.

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#3
In reply to #1

Re: rust cleaner

06/28/2008 11:27 PM

OSPHO--Phosphoric acid if it is steel. It can be applied to rust after the scale has been removed. I may be mistaken, but it turns the rust/scale into magnetite. Once it has reacted with ALL of the rust, I would wipe the area down with lacquer thinner and let that evaporate and give it a zinc coat and then primer before you paint--We used a ton of Ameron(DeVoe) catalyzed epoxy for the marine industry.

There also was a product called CorroSeal that we put on after scaling and it gave itself a clear plastic coat and turned the rust purple, but I can't find it anymore. It saved a step or two.

If it is Aluminum, try AlumiBrite.

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Anonymous Poster
#4
In reply to #3

Re: rust cleaner

06/28/2008 11:40 PM

Or you can purchase a product called MetalPrep in either aqueous or alcohol bases. The aqueous base requires a rinse after use. The alcohol base does not.

Either product turns the rust into Iron Phosphate which clings tightly to the remaining iron-based metal.

A good product for de-greasing is Prepsol which will make the surface ready for painting.

Some paint products, like Rustoleum contain a form of Phosphoric acid but should not be placed on heavily rusted metal.

If you have a choice, use an etching primer (2-part, use supplied air mask and protective clothing) to really adhere to the metal.

Last coating product is something called POR 15 which can be applied directly over rusted metal and will neutralize the rust and form a coating that is very difficult to remove even with a power sander. It is not UV stable, however so you have to be careful. Once it cures, you cannot get paint to adhere to it so you have to prime it while it is still setting up. It is not a 2-part coating but is similar to the acrilate glues (or so I am told).

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: rust cleaner

06/29/2008 10:44 AM

I will say probably "-NAVAL JELLY-" it come in a pink color plastic bottle and that will do it. It's does work actually like a paint stripper effect which are super strong stuuf absolubtly...Well Ventillated area as possible to dilute any exccess fumes out of the operation and you'll be on business in no time. Also try a good PPE ( Personal Protection Equipment), you get it you know some -Dust Mask- will help a lot as always there some metal oxide particles which tend to fly around so you dont want to breath such stuff in the meantime my friends. And definetly a nice pair of safety glasses for protection as well. And rinse it out at the end ckecking it out for any electric hazard before in order to -Lock and Tag- just in case Buddies. Allset easy does it now and hang in there. Check out jar instructions for more details associated with. Have Fun and enjoy the assigment.

Ps. If outside get also an 5 de Mayo hat for Sunligth Protection as well.

Pass that Brush,

MC

MC

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#11
In reply to #3

Re: rust cleaner

06/30/2008 9:19 AM

I give you a GA for your post. I have used OSPHO before and it works very good, just remember to get the loose rust, dirt and scale off first. Sherwin Williams also makes a similar product that does the same, I think phosphoric acid is the active ingredient in all of these.

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#7
In reply to #1

Re: rust cleaner

06/29/2008 7:17 PM

You forgot to tell the person that oxylic acid is a violent poison! Be careful of any children, animals around as well as the applicator. It precipitates the Ca ions in one's blood, and ta-ta. Clean up as if it were a strong acid and keep away from water tables, streams, etc. Oxalic acid solutions are often dried or concentrated in ovens, but the acid can sublime on heating ~ 100 C and above and can damage the oven. The formation of calcium oxalylate crystals can cause renal damage. Coma, convulsions and cardiovascular collapse can result in death. Oral LD-50 in rats was found to be 9.5 ml of a 5 % solution of oxalic acid (roughly 0.48 g of oxalic acid). Phosphoric acid is a much better choice, and again, it is a strong acid, so beware. (That's why Coke et al sodas work as rust cleaners!!).

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Anonymous Poster
#6

Re: rust cleaner

06/29/2008 4:45 PM

As rust never gets my undivided attention, I found cutting/smashing it all away, or if thick/strong metal and just surface rust, the primers with "xylene" are a way out to not overthink a simple situation. Seperating all the chemicals necessary is "old school".

There are more ways to answer this going back 100+ years...and all successful. There are duds with chemicals of course, we would have no ozone problems if it weren't for morons with chemicals. My answer is no doubt modern, bought off the shelf, and very cheap. the other stuff is up to you. I just look for "xylene" on the primer can..simple.

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Anonymous Poster
#16
In reply to #6

Re: rust cleaner

07/01/2008 9:21 AM

"There are duds with chemicals of course, we would have no ozone problems if it weren't for morons with chemicals."

And we'd have no online computer forums for "duds" to post on with no chemicals either. No chemicals= no plastics = no silicon chips= no computers = no internet= no free CR4 chemistry forum= 'No duds' guests calling chemists morons in a Chemistry forum.

Thanks for spreading your joy. We really appreciated the insights about the magic of xylene.

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#17
In reply to #16

Re: rust cleaner

07/01/2008 4:32 PM

What the heck are you guys going on about--Al Gore plugged the hole in the ozone with spotted owls two years ago--Nobel Peace prize, HELLO!?

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#8

Re: rust cleaner

06/30/2008 2:21 AM

In the past (about 10 years ago) Jotun had a special product for neutralizing rust. It was called 'NeutraRust', and it was applied directly onto the rust (if the layers were not too thick). When drying, it would form a black layer, looking like some sort of coating, which is not to be removed. Primer and Coating must be applied directly on top of this black 'coating'. This product should be available at marine paint suppliers (at least in Europe it is). The experience I had with this product is that when applied and the layer is not damaged or cracked the rust would not come back, even for years. We preferred this NeutraRust over chemical cleaning because it was safer, and over chipping and grinding because this would drive the rust particles into the steel, so rust would appear again from below the painting. Also, chipping and grinding is not always allowed (chemical plants, explosive environments, etc).

Link to the homepage of NeutraRust (I used this on a deepsea merchant vessel):

http://www.neutrarustuk.com/

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#9

Re: rust cleaner

06/30/2008 3:43 AM

Ranex- rust buster- industrial strength- I have been using this stuff for over 40 years- is 35% phosphoric acid- just wire brush surface to remove loose scale- brush on, let dry(dries black), then simply paint - lasts forever!(oh, & I even dilute it with half water!).

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Associate

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 46
#12

Re: rust cleaner

06/30/2008 12:11 PM

If it is surface rust, you can use 'Walnut Shell Media'...probably size 18/40 to blast it.

e-mail: rebecca@ecoshell.com or check out our website @ www.ecoshell.com.

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Power-User

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Posts: 342
#13
In reply to #12

Re: rust cleaner

06/30/2008 9:45 PM

Sounds great stuff absolutly, Good Deal,I will check it out further, thanks for the data. This is super CR-4 always something to catch on. Never end learning something new here. That's some chemical power in action rigth there Buddies. No Joke. Allset let's spread that stuff nice and even now. That will do it...

Blast it Out,

MC

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#14

Re: rust cleaner

07/01/2008 1:45 AM

just use the thinner to remove the rust.and if there is corosion on that use the steel brush first and after clean with the thinnner if its a big area use the circular brush with grinder.

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#15

Re: rust cleaner

07/01/2008 5:44 AM

if it's so ostinate you've considered to use a mechanical tool instead of a chemical?

S.

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Commentator

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Location: Ottawa Ontario Canada
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#18

Re: rust cleaner

07/09/2008 12:22 PM

In Canada there is a product called CLR that removes rust from most surfaces. Now if the rust is thick it wont do a great job but then replacing the metal would be a better solution.

BTW CLR is not too expensive and comes in a variety of sizes.

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Anonymous Poster (5); Cardio-2 (1); Dutch Sailor (1); Kaboom (1); Kilgore Trout (2); magwer (2); Neil Kwyrer (1); pipewelder (1); PWSlack (1); rebecca7 (1); sohail0110 (1); strider6 (1)

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