BB Gun Wars of Berlin?

Hello Transcendian,

Could you feed yourself squirrels with a 177 pump air gun?

Even with my 177 air pistol, but using pointed pellets. The problem is it can take to many rounds with the pistol. Just not enough ft-lbs of knock down power. The 1100fps air rifles should have no problem. The original Red Rider Daisy BB gun was a hunting (air?) gun nothing like the later toys by the same name.

Sorry Kris, we have tough rouge squirrels.

Never heard of these BB gun wars, We had our own. The BBs stung ( cardboard armor) but the foo-foo (bird) arrows out of a 25lb bow put you down.

It's a wonder all of us in our neighborhood survived childhood.

Brad

Yeh. Some of the "toys" we played with back in those days would make most safety expects cringe.

These came later but the "Lawn Dart" to name one

Yes, I never participated in an BB gun fights. I did have a few organized rock fights. Had a few head wounds but nobody was killed.

A BB gun will kill a squirrel. Like everything else you have to practice and learn to place your shot. A shot in the butt is only going to motivate the squirrel to run faster and a shot to the head will kill it. My grand father killed two deer with one shot by a .22 long rifle. That's not an air gun but with the size and power of the bullet in ratio to the damage it did, it is comparable.

At close range, while that .177 BB or pellet is still at it's max velocity, it can penetrate skin.

We didn't wear any armor during our rock fights. We did construct some big sling shots using inner tube as part of our arsenal though.

Hi Transcendian,

I have a gas powered pistol, .22cal, it is made by Crossman over in America and powered by CO2. If you know what you are doing these pistols can be increased in power, over here in the UK they are limited to 6ft. lbs, but with a little tweaking they can produce up to 15ft. lbs. This will not kill a man with a normal air-gun pellet, (never use a BB with a rifled barrel), but with a air-dart carrying a powerfull poison can kill a man very quickly! Not that I would ever do that!!!

I also have a PCP Falcon air-rifle .22cal of 32ft. lbs, this will kill a man at short range if you shot him in the head! I use this rifle for hunting purposes, it has an eight shot magazine and is bolt-action operated. You should try to buy one of these!

Spencer.

As a child in the USA I participted in numerous BB gun 'wars'. The weapon of choice was a Daisy lever cocked spring air gun. Those BB's stung like the dickens and at vey close range could penetrate the skin (personal experience - leading to instant kid covert first-aid and generation of a cover story to rival that of the Manhattan Project). It is amazing that many of us survived to adulthood. As to a movie, I am sure that your idea strikes terror in the hearts of the product liability folks.

Growing up, several of my friends and I had single Break down spring operated Pellet guns. There was an adjustment screw, that when tightened, would increase the spring tension, and therefore the power.

We used to put on as many clothes as possible, and have our "wars". Try running away from someone shooting at you wearig 4 or 5 pairs of Jeans. It still hurt, A LOT

After an incident involving a hand, a Short range accidental discharge and a trip to the hosital, the "wars" were swiftly brought to an end. I think the police still have my gun, LOL That was over 30 yrs ago

I have purchased several air rifle for my son in the last 10 years. The new guns are much stronger than the old ones of 20-30 years ago. I have shoot birds with them and the bullet goes through them so fast they fly away 50 ft or so and then fall over dead. I have also shoot and killed several squirrels and they die quite easily when hit in many areas - some quicker than others. These pellets will go through several layers of tin cans and many layers of cardboard. They would definetely penetrate your skin. The old BB guns are no comparison to the newer ones. No wars allowed with these high powered BB guns.

Hi Russ,

Any air gun who's power is 10 ft, lbs + will kill a rabbit, the legal highest power of any air rifle in the UK is 12 ft, lbs, unless you reqire a higher powered air rifle you have to have a firearms certificate.

A friend of mine has an ancient (1762) air fifle, this utilizes a .50cal round shot, it is also a PCP air rilfle. Over there in The USA you had two famous explores, I forget there names but they traveled all over America carrying one of these guns to shoot game with.

Here in the UK the largest calibre air rifle to be found today is .25cal, their muzzle power is 40 ft, lbs and can kill a man!

Hi Russ,

I just remembered who those two guys were, it was Lewis and Clarke.

Spencer.

The footpounds ratings are unfamiliar to me. I typically only understand feet per second. I had a 38 revolver that had a trigger pull in double action of something like 13 pounds. Cocked it was much lighter on the trigger. I think my air pistol with three pumps is pushing out around 400 feet per second. I am not sure whether or not I ought to pump the chamber till I cannot pump it or not. I myself had Googled the Berlin BB Gun wars, and hadn't gotten anything of use. Still at the time it apparently was common for youth to shoot at each other with BB Guns. The Splat Ball is apparently 50 cal. It is likely an improvement on the BB gun wars as far as safety is concerned. I had turned to CR4 for some info as now and then I believe spies visit. At the time of the story that inspired my recent questions I myself had a Crossman air rifle that was right strong. As far as Lewis and Clark are concerned I was impressed that they liked Buffalo meat quite a lot. It is a fine tasting meat and seems to cause vivid dreams from my experience. Those who participated in the Cold War BB Gun Wars of Berlin would be in my age range of 55, or maybe 60, and would have as Americans been there as the children of the occupation, or Berliners. I did break down and buy a single shot 20 guage shotgun for 125 that is elegant. It has a Bakelite stock. So now the entire Transcendian Arsenal is a 32 revolver from 1905, and a single shot 32 inch barrell shotgun, and the air pistol. It does appear that BB Gun Wars were general, but I am most interested in the mindset of the youths in Berlin that engaged in the pasttime.

I am most interested in the mindset of the youths in Berlin that engaged in the pasttime.

You would have seen the Art Linkletter show then "kids say the darndest things". Think hard now grrrrrrrrrrr-grrrrrrrrrrr oh yeah then they start acting out and they think of it as fun to the horror of inattentive adults

Hi Transcendian,

Ft, lbs is simple to understand; This is the hitting power as soon as the pellet/shell leaves the muzzle. This power decreases with range, such as even if you do have an air rifle with 20ft, lbs, at 70yards the hitting power will be less (about 12ft,lbs).

This is shown by the drop in velocity and the corresponding fall in trajectory! The smaller the calibre the flatter the trajectory, but the larger the calibre the more crum is the trajectory but the hitting power is greater!

Spencer.

I have a circa 1966 BB in my left thigh. Thanksgiving day, the pilgrims elected me "turkey". Go figger.

I know nothing about the BB Gun Wars in Berlin but I thought you might be interested in knowing that Meriwether Lewis took an air powered rifle with him on the Corps of Discovery in the early 1800's and that rifle fored a .58 cal ball which was able to kill game. It was used mostly to impress the Indians ( excuse my non-politically correct reference) with its silence. I believe it was an Itallian design and capable of multiple shots.

Now this is something I'm interested in - can you elaborate on this weapon that Lewis had? Who the Italian designer was - who marketed it , etc.

Thank-you!

Hi Camiliontwo1

If you google; "Air gun carried by Lewis and Clarke", you can find out all about this weapon!

Spencer.

I mis-spoke. The name sounds Itallian but the rifle in fact is Austrian and was a 22 shot rifle operating at 800 psi. If you go to these links, you should see a U-tube Video of a demonstration of the rifle or a replica, I'm not sure which. The other links are for text explanations I found on Google by typing in Lewis & Clark, Air rifle. Have fun. As I get older I find History is a hoot!

It is hard to believe what our forefathers in this country did and how they suffered to give us the freedoms we have today. Too bad so many of our politicians want to take them away.

http://www.lewis-clark.org/content/content-article.asp?ArticleID=1829http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9WEsILY92o

http://edbrenegar.typepad.com/lewisandclark21/2005/07/lewis_air_rifle.html

Morgan,

I had heards accounts of the Lewis and Clark air gun. Apparently the design was actually used to arm a European army of the period - I have forgotten which army, but possibly Austrian. The gun used a removable air reservoir which they would recharge on the field and distribute with ammunition. I think it was pressurized to about 2000 psi.

LG_DAVE

Hi LG_Dave,

The Girandoni air rifle by Bartholomaus Girandoni was the first ever practical air rifle, first built in 1779, it fired a .51cal ball, there were 20 shots in it's magazine. These shots were effective for up to 150yards at full pressure, and it was equiped with a removable air tank that resided in the rifle butt.

The Austrian army was equiped with these Girondani air rifles from 1780 to 1815, each rifleman was also equiped with three spare air tanks and an air-pump to refill them. They were also equiped with 100 spare lead balls, a cleaning stick and a shot ladle.

It took nearly 1500 strokes of the pump to fill the air-tank, and the air tank was capable of disharging 30 shots.

The Girandoni air rifle was the first rifle to use a magazine, and the first ever rifle to use air compression for firearms.

Spencer.

Doesn't that seem like an incredible amount of firepower for the time, especially when compared with the old flintlock muskets? The only reason I can see for them falling out of use was that there was no noise or smoke, which must have been more intimidating. I guess 1500 pumps per 30 shots was also a problem, even though with two cylinders that is 60 rapid fire shots.

When I visited Wikepedia yesterday seemed there was a Japanese air powered rifle of the 1500s. I apoligize if it was Chinese. I'm pretty sure though it was Japanese, especially since they outlawed firearms from the 1300s to the 1500s, according to my memory of Mr. Diamond's book Guns Germs and Steel. Possibly the adjective "practical" would diminish the earlier air powered rifles, or guns, but we could make a case for the Blowgun as practical and coming out of antiquity. My next study will be to find Cold War Era air guns common to Berlin. It will be cool when a veteran of the BB Gun Wars of Cold War Berlin gives us a story. I have faith somebody on CR4 knows somebody who was a veteran of the events.

I was the "gun dealer" in high school back in Hong Kong.

Most parents don't like kids to play with guns, so I store them for my friends. I got pump and compressed air guns. Semi and full automatic. From M16, AUG, M-1000 to Colt M1911-A1, .357, M93-R, RoboCop.

We used to play at housing complex and sometime old house and old fortress/dig out. It was fun time. Carrying a bag full of BB guns (more than ten), ride the bus and subway. Try that now and I'll get shoot down by a SWAT team.

I usually carry a pump M16 and a compressed air M1911-A1. I was the sniper. My M16 was modified with rifleline in the barrel. Longest distance and most accurate.

The AUG was the only full auto. With 20 shot per sec, 60 BBs doesn't last you too long.

The M1000 carry 1000 shots and 400g of compressed air. It never ran out of ammo.

Really miss the days when I open the closet, move the clothes aside and all you can see is guns at the back.

Good old day.

Very interesting story. It does seem that our politicains have taken away a lot of our freedoms and fun. A few nuts spoil it for the rest of us. It never stops the nuts but it hinders us.

My friend and I had a M19A submachine gun BB gun. Ran on R12 for 3600 BBs per min or 60 BBs per sec. Couldn't use it for BB gun wars, it was lethal. We modified it to run on higher pressure compressed air. Seagulls trying to take your bait became enemy fighters then shark bait. It would even go through Champagne bottles no other BB gun we had could. Ran it off a scuba sized air bottle.

We did reinforce the housing to take the pressure. It went through half pints of BBs quicker than you could load them.

Brad

I've seen a M60 BB gun in a shop. Don't think I can take it to the subway.

Used to know all the gun models just by looking at it.

Still got a few pump action hand guns at home. Never played with them. Don't think its a good idea to carry a BB in Scarbo. Ontario.

When I was little, my brothers, cousins, friends, and myself had BB-gun wars. There was a large pasture near our home, and we would dress up in a layer or two of sweat clothes, and go play army. We never wore any sort of face protection though, which looking back would have probably been a good idea. There were rules about not purposely aiming for someone's head though. It's funny how things change. When I was a kid we ran around with bb-guns, air rifles (a.k.a. pellet guns), bows and arrows, pocket knives, hatchets, fireworks, and graduated up to .22 caliber powder firearms at the age of 8 or so. In the boyscouts and from our parents we learned proper gun safety, but with the bb-guns we would cut loose and have a little fun, we knew the difference. We grew up and turned out fine. Nowadays kids just sit around playing X-box or playstation...it's just sad. What happened to being a kid?

Micro-managed with soccer, t-ball, etc.

Internet, chat rooms, IM's, texting (why does a 14 yr old need a cell phone anyway?), and of coarse, video games.

Does any kid know how to set a trot line, build a kite from scratch, build a tree house or a down hill go cart?

Sad times for them.

What are we, the parents, really trying to do?

They are our future...

We never had BB gun wars, but we did have dirt clod wars. The dirt clods with gravel in them really stung!

For a while there, my brothers and I would shoot rolled up wads of paper at each other, launched by rubber bands. Then my oldest brother put used chewing gum in his paper wads to hold them together tighter. OUCH!

I had a few weird friends that would make swords out of old automotive leaf springs, and then have swordfights with them. I wasn't that skilled, but I was hard to beat because of my aggressive attitude.

Back then, Barlow knives were like standard equipment for every kid. We used them mostly for whittlin' on small limbs, carving names into trees or fence posts, or cutting string.