How to overcome the water temperature problem in the house

I think you would be better served running it through some type of cooling radiator and blow the fan across the coils.

Not entirely sure of the configuration but I am sure some of the geniuses in this forum can come up with an inexpensive setup.

Accelerating the evaporation with a fan may help but it may be too slow and not cost effective.

Step 1 - reduce the exposure of water to the sun. You should look at a reflecting roof with ample ventilation below. and maybe a ceiling as well.

Step 2 - Reduce the exposure of the piping to the sun or heat.

If this does not help have a look at evaporation cooling. Water can be leaked onto surrounding cloth cover of pipe.

Please give indication of temperatures.

Thanks Hendrik

Actually both of steps used, but no any benefits.

Please explain what you mean by evaporation cooling. Water can be leaked onto surrounding cloth cover of pipe.

Today temperature

Is the water tank and piping insulated?

And what color is it?

I'm in the Phoenix, Arizona area, and we suffer the same problem. I also happen to work at the Water Dept, for a local City government. Some, if not all, cities have 6" PVC, or metal pipes which supply the local communities with treated water. In these locations, the pipe can be fairly 'close' to surface grade, within 3' to 4'. When the ground surface is heated by solar action, the heat can radiate down, deep enough to heat the water supply. At my house, the temperature of the water coming out of the 'cold' side ranges from 95* all the way up to 99*, during the summer months. Cooling it is out of the question. Other than a 'chiller', I can really see no other option to cool your water, than to set-up a series of drippers, flowing onto a series of fibrous pads, within a box with open ends, and using filtered air flowing through the pads. On the downstream side, you'll have to use an effective filtration system, to remove any impurities picked up in the pads (or baffles) from the water that will go to your residence. The cooling will be noticeable, but any great difference wouldn't be appreciable. You could get 10 brand new auto radiators, connected to your water supply by using a long manifold-type disperser, and run the water through them, putting the radiators inside a 2' X 3' open-ended box, with a fan blowing through one end would work as well. What a problem!

Auto radiators would not be a good choice. They are designed for a constant pressure of 15 to 20 psi, some as high as 26 psi.. I don't know what their design burst pressure is, but normal city water pressure is in the area of 40 psi. I wouldn't risk it.

There are heat exchangers made for industrial use but cost would be an issue. Some are fluid to fluid and some are fluid to air. With the fluid to air, you could spray or drip water over the fins to extract the heat. Even recovering and respraying the warmed "chill" water would still cool the city water through evaporation. Expect to have a small processing system in the back yard.

Seems as though his system is gravity feed. at any rate putting them on the suction side would eliminate the pressure issue.

How about radiators designed to allow pushed water to flow through them and then fed directly into a water tank? The tank would have to be at a greater elevation, so to provide adequate pressure to the house. Diesel trucks have radiators which operate at a greater pressure than most 'normal' auto radiators, don't they?

By the way...the line water pressure out here is 55-60 psi.

That is actually typical, residential pressures usually run from 40 to 80 psi, some low spots will run as high as 100 psi (this is getting a bit too high). Minimum pressure is 20 psi when there is a fire demand on the supply system. Plus it will vary a lot, 55-60 psi might be a pressure during one demand period and it could drop to 40 at peak demand, around 6 pm, or go up to 80 at low demand periods.

Which region of the globe, you are from.

Few posts till now are some how thinkng hiTech. For economical reasons, the solution should be simple... no fan cooling nor eveporative cooling. At such a high temperature, fan cooling will not be at all effective as difference between dry bulb and wet bulb will be very small. For the same reason eveporative cooling by cloth on pipe and dripping water on it will have small effect. Besides, this method is loss of water.

I suggest few solutions:

1. If the tank is metal tank, insulate it from all sides, by asbestos or PVC sheets.

2. Color the ourside of the tank by reflective silver or white paint.

3. Try to put some shade on the tank.

4. Use PVC pipes from tank to utilities. If already put metal pipes, try to insulate those. (Heating of water is mainly in the pipes. Because of volume of water in the tank, the temperature rise in the tank will not be really a big one)

5. Take a bath before Sun rise. The effect of water heating in pipes will not be there before Sun rise.

Maybe you are from Dubai or Abu Dhabi...the very same problem but we have a simpler decision...

1. Water tank on roof heats UP - shade temperatures >100\OF, sun-light temps >160\OF - difficult to provide a radiator for such, Put a shade up cuts it down to 100\OF, night temp. >75\OF

2. Electric/gas hot water heater tank in each apartment or for house kitcehn and bathroom

3. Direct pipe from roof tank

4. Actual Practice

4.1 Change fauct handles from hot to cold and cold to hot

4.2 Turn of hot water heater

4.3 Enjoy cooled water from heater tank - and hot water from the other.

Real problem - if they have a swimming pool and they use "chillers" for swimming pools.

TOM

Yes, in principle it could work, but You forget one thing: boilers for heating water are made so that they would KEEP temperature from heating as long as possible and are nowadays made from plastic that additionally keep temperature inside from going OUT. Then, only fact that would promote cooling is environmentall temperature, which could be less if there is airconditioning system, othervise ONLY because there is shade in apartment. So why not shade reservoir first of all and isolate it from heat as much as possible? I even proposed how heat could be used to cool it by making air circulation system with expansion chamber like in refrigeration system, just without compresor or harmful gases or chemicals... Also, I proposed isolating reservoir by quartz sand, as it is known fact that in deserts heat does not reach more than 15 cm deep, no matter if one can literaly bake eggs on sand surface.........

If Your system would work, then it would be fine, but linited by boiler capacity, and some has installed water heaters instead as more ecconomic, and there is NO capacity where water could cool down. Also, it would work with metal boiler and badly insulated one :-(( But this is good example fo thinking out of box and reusing what one have without additional expenses, Very good!

I'm from Dubai. Tap water these days is still bearable, but in the month to come (especially at noon) it will be scalding hot no matter what time of the day. Our solution? Very simple & practical.

Store water in large open pails & buckets overnight, in places where there is a tap. Refill the pail/bucket every use, and keep the exhaust fans running in the room. This allows the stored water to cool to lukewarm level, comfortable for use.

Honored guest, I have proposition for selling best quality spring water to Dubai. Could You tell me what kinds of sping water is sold in Dubai, from which countries and for which prices? This water factory is being built and would be delivering water from April next year, but they has results of analyse from Switzerland, and laboratory told them it is the best in all Europe... Yearly production would be 300 milion litres.

In regard to Your problem with cooling water, please read my answer from before on this thread, perhaps it would be practicall to You also...

Else, I plan to start production of inhouse water production devices, of 20 to 30 liters per day, and one would be able to get either hot (which You allready have) or icy cold water from it......

If You write me private email, I could inform You when it would be available.....

Forget selling bottled water in Dubai - market is saturated and few can compete with Oasis water as it is from the Dubal-Dubai Aluminum Co. - flash distillation. I also lived in Dubai for 15 years and always used tap water provided at $2/cum.

TOM

Honored sir,

In Your place, I would put reservoir on the roof as an upright cilinder, in warmest place! then I would build sort of metal chimney that would stand around this reservoir and be at least 2-3 meters higher than top of reservoir. Make it as tall as possible. This >>chimney<< should be painted black to absorb as much heat it can..... It should be having pipes of smaller diameter at bottom for taking air that would circulate, and as far as 50cm over the top of reservoir it should have to have double walls (cilinder within cilinder) both welded onto same horizontal plate. 12 pipes that would bring air from outside have to be simetricaly made into group that would reach trough outside wall of chimney and other that would go trough both walls of chimney. Each group of six should be mounted in the circle, so pipes goung trouh first wall only would be horizontaly beside pipe that goes trough both walls, then another pipe that goes trough first wall only and so on. End of each pipe should be made rounded and of smaller diameter than pipe itself, or cone of material could be welded there to get smaler opening than pipe diameter. That should turn pipes into blowers, and since blowers would blow air into bigger chamber where there would be slight vacuum because air in heated chimney would climb upward fast, which would produce effect like expansion chamber in refrigerator... Double wall is necesary to shield reservoir from secondary IR radiation inside chimney that would heat at maximum posible temperature. Air intake pipes should be either painted white or insulated so they would not also heat air that is taken from outside, and their opening would be better far away from heated surface of the roof, even covered by some plate on distance over them, so they are not exposed to direct sunlight. If You make this double roof, then by same system You could get cooling of ceiling in uppermost apartment or rooms, by instaling lot of pipes all leading horizontal and up on slant, where poenings would face outer wall of chimney and help to heat it.........

It would help if You paint inside chimney wall (facing outside chimney wall from inside) and reservoir in white paint to make heating by secondary IR irradiation even less.....

If You have long chimney, then it could also ne painted white up to height of inner chimney as upper part would heat air enough to start circulation..... Also, spiral plates inside of chimney could make air make wortex on top of chimney that would additionaly suck air out of it, making bottom pipes air circulation faster and cooling effect stronger........

With stroing enough draft, turbine for making electricity could be positioned inside chimney, but to test idea, one would have to have good fluid circulation simulation.

If You dont know otherwise to calculate diameters of pipes in relation to chimney space which would in essence be expansion chamber, take some book on refrigeration principles and study........

Now, there is also less expensive solution: there are water dispensers for spring water that is sold in 30-50 liters bottles, that have option to give freezingly cold or scaldingly hot water. So if You put some connection to water pipe instead od that big bottle, You could have cold water that could be mixed with water of ordinary temperature which You find too warm for bathing, to get temperature You need, and trough ordinary two pipe water mixer that is usually used in bathrooms for filling batthubs. However, this system spend electricity, so it cost in long run more.

Well, now You choose!

Regards, Marijan Pollak IT SE/SA 1st. Class, Instructor & Team Leader (retired)

No, there's no economical way to cool water. I'm going to assume you are in the desert with high ambient temps.(?) Since the sun is heating up the water, take the water out of the sun. You could consider two things - storing water from the reservoir in a tank on your property either above ground in the shade, or below ground. Kind of like a cistern.

If you go deep enough, maybe 10 feet below surface grade, into the soil the temperature is relatively constant around 55 degree F. A underground cistern or tank could provide the colling effect you seek. You want a tank large enough to allow sufficient residence time to allow cooling to occur before the volume of the tank is used, but not so long that the residual disinfectant degrades.

Dig a trench six feet wide, ten feet deep and 30-40 feet long. Lay in about 6-8 runs of water pipe connected after the meter of course. Geo-thermally cooled water with no maintenance or waste of resources.

Sir Jaguar, why do You think they keep this reservoir on the roof? I would say they need to get more water pressure..........

That's fine. Install the system after the reservoir.

If You propose that geothermal cooling should be installed after reservoir that is on the roof and in which water is actually heated, is it not better to protect reservoir from heat first of all? Then, if same heat could be used for cooling it, why not use free energy allready available? Your idea is good, but there should be large pipes capacity underground, at least for one reservoir capacity, but question is what kind of ground is down there: sand would tend to isolate pipes instead of conducting heat, that is main reason why in desert heat dont go deeper than 15 cm regardless of heat applied! Therefore some heatsink is necesary, perhaps basin with water that is open on top so water could evaporate and thus cool itself AND pipes inmersed in it.....

I proposed what I would do, but there exist more elaborate cooling systems that use heat to get cooling efect, if someone dont mind use of dangerous (like ammonia) or environmentaly harmfull gases like Freon....... Ether could also be used, but is also not safe to handle and could be even lethal in big quantity......

My system uses environmental air, so is safe as could be :-)) I dont say it is simple, but it is not overly complicated, and is not so cheap, but not expensive too, and need NO maintenance, no regulation, no danger of water leakage or flooding house basement.......

I just tought of wery simple soution using exactly desert sand as isolator, so why nor put reservoir into big box so on each side there would be at least 30-50 cm of space, and fill it with desert (quartz) sand, so it completely cover reservoir for 30-50 cm on top of it? It would use same reservoir instead of Your pipes, all is necesary is box that could be built of bricks or wood (if termites are not danger), and only question is wether roof would stand such weight. If possible, I would cover all roof with 20-30 cm of sand, after building additionall storey over existing roof, and make this new roof as half box. If I would want to protect whole house from heating, I would build outer walls in front of existing outside walls, leaving 30-50 cm gap which would be filled by sand also! Of course, there would have to be >>tunnels<< made for windows and entrance door, but this could be made of reinforced concrete and be used to support additionall roof and sand on it... Alternatively, if instead of sand one use 2-3 meters of earth and plant trees there, then owner could have also some fruits growing there and making shade while evaporating water and so cooling house! Of course, some watering of plants would be necesary, but there are systems that do it >>drop by drop<<, just house should then be isolated from water, too.......

But as long term solution that would solve problems of cooling house and even save on heating in cold climate, while being ecologically friendly and purely naturall, I think that would be best solution, and then reservoir would also be >>underground<< and water would not heat itself...... Outside could be decorated with Indian granite stone plates, and house would look as palace :-)) if owner could afford this all..........

Intersting, but you would still need some energy input to extract the heat from the water. Geothermal cooling is a passive system (though i guess there is some pressure lost to the longer runs of pipe). To obtain more effective cooling you want more surface are contact with the soil and longer transit times. I do not know that 6 to 8 pipes is sufficient, nor the lengths or sizes of pipes necessary (since this is something I am paid to do and would expect the engineer working for the project owners to solve). I have seen these systems where they serpentine a couple of pipes to obtain a very long contact time. The pipes can function as the temporary storage. If there is water storage for pressure and fire in tanks on the roof of the building, it is likely that a geothermal system would not work as it would need to be after the tank and transferring the water from the tank to below ground level and back into the building system at the various elevation, while maintaining adequate pressures throughout the building would be problematic. Any design would have to meet specific needs and requirements of the project, authorities and local environment. I would suggest spending the money and hiring a Civil Engineer to design such a project, rather than just gathering some rough ideas off the internet and then trying to build something.

1-First, thanks to everybody interested to solve my problems

2- Attached a Picture similar to my water tank

3-the water tank material as MF mention, made from linear low density polyethylene.

4-i was thinking if it's possible, why the MF for Water heater which used in bathroom, cant made one to be work in winter and summer!? Just turn the switch (Cold Water – Hot Water)

Check Reply No. 7 - those who do not read history, will repeat it.

Put a Cover 100mm above the skin of the tank to shade, if practical paint cover white

The Water heater will act as a water cooler (after turning off electric/gas) over night and during the day.

Switch the faucet tops - maybe put up a sign for a couple of days...but it does work depending on family size/water use and your heater size. Large family - put a fan on the water heater area.

Have a cool summer - I am finished with this subject, too.

TOM

Honored sir,

I offered You 2 different types of solutions in variations, but You say no word about them at all?

I expected at least a few words to know that You at least have read what I wrote?

Both systems are passive and cost no energy in use, and with one You could cool whole house and have orchard or garden on the roof, maybe even glass greenhouse!

I would stop giving advices for free if they are not appreciated, and someone would charge such advice probably at least 10 000 $......

I could amend this solution with blower pipes so they would be still more effective, and adapt it to shape of Your reservoir, which in this case would be better if it is made of stainless steel instead of plastic! You also dont mention what is night temperature difference and which temperature water has when entering a house system.........

I am poor man in retirement and I am barely surviving, so if You find my advices usefull, small donation would be appreciated very much!

Regards from Zagreb, the capitol of Croatia, Europe!

Marijan Pollak