Internet GOD, a source of every information ?

You make some good points and it is probably true that SOME people rely too heavily on the internet, and by extension the work of others instead of doing the work themselves. But it was always so. The internet just made it much easier. I suspect a great deal of your perception is based on questions you see here and in other 'proffesional' type forums that seem very simplistic. A person asks something in an engineering forum that any engineer should know or be able to look up quickly in his reference or old text books. If you assume that person is an engineer in the field you might rightly draw your conclusions. But quite often a person is thrown into a situation where they need to do the work of an engineer without the benefit of formal training. You just happen to be the most responsible person at a jobsite one day and the job needs to get done NOW. The job is yours. Thats how I got here and I know many others with the same story. The responsible thing to do is to go ahead and ask the stupid question. Alot of the time, the answer is "you need to get a local structural, electrical, civil whatever engineer to help you with this." You might not place much importance on that response, but it might mean alot to the person asking the question. He may not have known exactly what profession deals with his problem, or your suggestion might be just the proof he needs to convince his boss to hire a trained proffesional. It might be the first time he realizes that lives could possibly depend on doing the job right. slo

You have said it rightly. Internet was a tool by Physicists for information sharing among research fellows. It allowed more than simple text and perhaps hyperlinked text and images shared on the so called web. It is a good teaching tool even todays for professors, who can not meet their students in person and one is to one bases. Shered information resources on the web is a good idea. I have used it that way.

However, I am worried about the wastage of time by many others who otherwise may be much more productive. Some people become so addictive that without chat they will not get good sleep. Some chats so rubbish that it is hard to know the purpose. It is becoming a sickness of a kind and human brain disorder. Earlier one comes out of it better it may be. It is like Casino adiction I suppose.

Perhaps by those who have not yet seen civilization and are from underdeveloped countries, the net resourse may look very great as there is nothing else for them.

I have made comments too general but this problem is getting rather serious. easy availability of computers made it like a TV and it is no longer a technology. People so called engineers do not know where is the operating system in the computer. same thing is about the Internet information where there is lots of Garbage. People have become Internet Garbage hunters.

Internet may give some idea of creativity. In long run one have to kick it out or use it only for the purpose it does its best.

Many inventions have languished for decades, or event centuries because of lack of exposure. I see the internet more as a catalyst for progress, than an advanced lab in itself. What if the world had not had books? The internet is like a universal library. Before Gutenberg's press hardly anyone had books. Today we all have access to thousands of free books.

The steam engine was not used for centuries after it's discovery by the ancient Greeks. Bill Gates democratized the toy of a very few cloistered scientists. Many are know working to democratize new energy technologies.

All the best,

Ron Wagner

Hmmmmm some interesting points made....

I think the saying that 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing' could well be applied to the internet and in particular to the search engines....

Many times I've been on a forum and have asked a question only for someone to pop up a minute later with a list of links, or worse still an answer.....

I think the Internet is a fantastic means of communication and information sharing, but it certainly shouldn't be treated as supplying the correct answer everytime....

Sometimes I do despair at the use of the internet by people to prove themselves knowledgeable to others... But at the same time to show their lack of understanding what they have discovered?!

I wonder at how many times I have had to correct someone who has posted an answer which, to me, was so obviously wrong that it could be dangerous to anyone acting on the information without understanding the reasoning behind it....

As I read with amusement on another CR4 post, the author had his tongue in cheek when he posted that:

".... I am certain that electricity works using smoke, as when I let the smoke out of an instrument it stops working...."

Apologies if I've misquoted the poster.....

But its a prime example of something that someone might find on a search engine and just treat the 'information' as true....

John.

Hello John,

In India we say that each one of us is a doctor. If you do a mistake of telling that you have some problem, you will end up with 1001 remedies, and yet no solution to the problem if not you end up at worst.

You become a garbage cleaner if you ask for solution here. I think, if you work it out yourself or take some pains to get to an expert then it is much better way.

Internet looks a place to easy chat and display some humbug info. If there is something good then it calls for money. It sounds like dirty business tactics, but we tell juniors, to go to net and you will find the answer as GOD is behind Internet. What if Devil is behind the net? How to comit suicide etc are also on the web. It is a garbage box. You dump in it whatever you like, no ethics, no value, just something.

To be garbage it sure seems to me that you are using this garbage quite a bit to put out your point of view.You ever thought about just sending out letters?

"To be garbage it sure seems to me that you are using this garbage quite a bit to put out your point of view.You ever thought about just sending out letters?"

What is the point you are trying to make? - John

John,

Of course Electricity runs on smoke, that's why rewinds cost so much, it is a devil of a job getting all that smoke back into the device. Of course you know there are no such things as light bulbs, they are actually dark suckers, that is why they stop working when they go black, they are chock full of dark.

Interesting theory. There are some people who believe that matter is vacuum and vacuum is matter. This makes world full of matter and less vacuum. This also makes world a source of unlimited energy. Its proposes that we are bubbles and we eat bubbles. Read about this "

Dark Matter and Vacuum Energy"

http://www.book-of-thoth.com/article_submit/science/astronomy/shadow-partners-dark-matter-and-vacuum-energy.html

"There are some people who believe that matter is vacuum and vacuum is matter. This makes world full of matter and less vacuum."

Wouldn't it just be simpler and drop the equivalent middleman? I mean, come on: if the equivalences matter=vacuum=matter and its converse vacuum=matter=vacuum form a complete set, then what's the problem? Obviously, by simply rearranging the terms, you get the following equivalent relations: matter=matter & vacuum=vacuum. And so, class, what does that imply? You got it: Earth & Space. (like, Duh!)

Personally, I think the whole theory sucks. But it doesn't matter.

muiporuE--

(caveat: entire post written with tongue planted firmly in cheek, lest anyone take offense)

Dear Europium,

Yes, some concepts of Physics are only to look for vision where we have no way to reach.

Look at the concept of the negative energy or temperatures below absolute zero. No one can say that this is possible and that is not. People even look for photon that may come from another universe at speed greater or lower than that of our "C".

I met this man Dr. Abdus Salam, Nobel Prize winner in Physics 1979perhaps in that year itself in India. We had a meeting for a day. He was a fundamental particle researcher. I think he was getting happiness in imagination and analyzing power of his brain to understand things that may be as he used to think. That is the way for some people. I am not sure if that will make some greater sense to others than what one may find more interesting. Every knowledge is not for all. People like Aristotle tried to convince people to think and live but failed miserably. Only part of the world is for knowledge and that too in its own interest area. I think that is OK.

"Look at the concept of the negative energy or temperatures below absolute zero. No one can say that this is possible and that is not. People even look for photon that may come from another universe at speed greater or lower than that of our "C"."

Negative energy I can understand. I was married to her for 24 years.

But why someone would look for a photon coming from an alternate universe with the properties you describe? Well, I must assume they have some reason for doing so (possibly known only to them). Perhaps photons from this Universe are just too friggin' boring, and they're looking to the Photon Next Door for a little steamy action in their lives beyond what the usual spate of familiar elementary particles from this Universe can offer? Something sexy and exotic perhaps? Something worthy of a good fantasy, like maybe that hot Naked Singularity they saw downtown last night after the bars closed? Hell, Dude, I don't know. Why do people look for that stuff?

For my part, I feel there are enough bonafide mysteries remaining to be solved in this Universe to keep me busy, say, for the next few billion years. Things like:

What is mass? Not your smug textbook answer, but what is it, really? Is it an artifact of movement through a Higgs Field? Okay, then what stuff makes up a Higgs Field? Really?

Is motion quantized? If, at Planck Length scales, the Universe is a roiling soup of virtual particles, flickering in and out of existence, and where spacetime itself has properties more like boiling foam, how does something move through that stuff in one piece and in a smooth, continuous way? Does it?

Why is there inertia? How does a mass know it's moving?

What is charge? Again, not your typical textbook answer; The Real Answer. What causes charge? Why, in the case of an electron, is the origin of charge localized to what essentially is a point of zero dimension? What is the stuff of electric charge? What is it, exactly? And no, I don't give a shit about Oz; him I can see. I wanna know who is that Man Behind the Curtain...

--Europium

"But its a prime example of something that someone might find on a search engine and just treat the 'information' as true...."

Hell, those folks don't even use the Internet. Why should they, when they've got National Enquirer?

--Europium

Yes, it is like a newspaper in which everyone can write whatever you wish. More like a dust bin I will say. People here are like all types of garbage dumpers and garbage pickers to some level. You some time find something useful even in that dust bin.

Then there are paid dust bins. You can expect some value to the information.

As said by many that there is value to what one thinks OK for oneself. If one finds that on the net then it is as good as a gold mine.

Does a fee makes the garbage dump difficult? I am not so sure about it. If Pepsi and Coke can fool the entire world then some garbage on net can also sell. It is amtter of what one think is Ok for time being. Now a days some monks were seen going on net for publicity. They were to live in forest away from public but they are all for publicity now.

Net makes me to interact with people and exchange ideas and get some catalogs without papers. I am fedup of those stored books that take a lot of space, collect dirt. I consider that good for me. I am also a garbage picker in that sense.

Sure net is a very good tool of this time. There may be some problems but then it is another way to reach people and talk at distance. It is good that it is a very cheap tool as many who have least resources may also have their say. It helps me doing a lot of research by interactions with experienced people as if I am reading their life book. It more refreshing than coke to me. I think it is very economic way also.

internet is fun, if you wan't to use it for research then knock yourself out, if you wan't to chat then go for it, I really don't care what you guys use it for. Why are U mad about?? your son outsmarted you in thinking he did his homework?? i'm telling you, this new generation is a lot smarter than U and ME.

Your definition of being 'smarter' or not is beyond me....

I would have thought that to be 'smart' would entail some form of training of the mind to be able to express oneself in a coherent fashion, based on facts which are understood, not just dug out from a search engine web site and repeated?

I'm afraid your use of shorthand text typing ('U' instead of 'you') is also not a very 'smart' way to express yourself.

John.

Excuse me for being so rude, pfff, have a little sense of humor and give us a smile U loser

First lets accept there is nothing like free lunch any where on the earth ,one has to work for it investing time and money!At the best internet will provide some hint where and whom to look up to solve your problem.like i know Now i can approch people like shyam when ever i have a problem with sensors thanks to internet.

I agree. It is a cheap way to talk to people and perhaps meet some, you may never meet otherwise. You get 100% for your point.

Unfortunately in last 10 years, spam has grown so much that people keep their contacts away from public. There is million dollar Nigeria spam, lottory spam, now viagra spam and enlargement spam. All know about this but no serious garbage cleaning is done before it reaches millions. Perhaps cleaning filters thenselves are dirty by now.

Unless there is some way to clean these things, it is making us to close the contacts and forget email based communication.

I used to travel the world and wanted to know about each and every civilizations in their original forms and has been appreciating. Bad emails make me feel sick now. I have to spend time to send them to gutter. I have to do this as I don't want to miss a small line from a good friend. By the time, I get to some good news, I am already sick and can't reply properly with happy feeling.

I am sure that 90% of the world is good and that is good reason to smile. I will love to see, pictures of the places, people, and their culture on the net. I believe it takes thousands of years to get to that. I hope more people will do that, as many others wants to know about them and are their best freinds, they have never met yet.

Thank you Shyam for starting this thread.

I think it is an excellent topic for discussion here on CR4, since this website is devoted to technical discussion and the exchange of information and ideas.

I was especially interested in the discussion involving people seeking to provide technical answers to others, by using information from actual qualified engineers and scientists, when they would never be able to come up with the answers themselves otherwise. This happens all too often in manufacturing industries, where, trying to save money on salaries, employers often promote or hire less than qualified people, and give them the title Engineer, when they have never studied Engineering in their lives, much less completed a full University degree program in Engineering. Oh sure, some may have taken a few courses offered by the Engineering School for "non-majors" to orient them to technologies which they might come into contact with in their carerrs. NOT THE SAME THING! Also, many study for 2 years or even 4 years to earn a "Technology" degree. But there is a difference. Those who earn a degree in Engineering are taught how to "Think Outside the Box" in developing Engineering solutions, while those who earn Technology degrees simply learn everything they can about "The Box" and how to use it, but often fail when they try to exceed their limited training. Or they succeed, because they used the work of others, but then fall flat on their faces when another challenge leaves them dumbfounded. Remember "The Peter Principle"? It says that in any organization, people will rise to their own level of INcompetence. This is why so many organizatons fail, because they have so many people who are incompetent where they are, but got promoted because they were competent at their last position.

Last year I taught a college course in Engineering Design. Part of the course included studying how designers and design teams get ideas and information. Of course the subject of the Internet came up, and many of the students just accepted that any information found on the Internet was correct. Well, like many questions, the answer to this one is, "It depends...."

When determining whether or not to use information found on the Internet you must qualify the source. Is it primary information, supplied by a researcher who is qualified in this area? Is it an academic reference, which one could easily check from multiple sources? Or is it merely hearsay, repeated over and over until people assume it is correct, like the example that was posted recently about the inventor of the telescope (Not Galileo as everyone believes!) Or worse yet, some fiction invented by an imaginative mind, sprinkled with just enough well-known facts and observations to lend it credibility, often with erroneous conclusions drawn without thinking, or by committing logical fallacies that anyone who had studied basic Logic or Philosphy in college would know was just plain wrong. This is often the basis for ideological and political propaganda as well. And we all know there is a lot of that on the Internet!

Like many other inventions of man, the Internet and the World Wide Web (not invented by Bill Gates nor even optimized by him or Microsoft. Mosaic, which became Netscape, was the first popular web browser that made HTML websites and browsing practical, then was copied by Gates as the "Internet Explorer") has capacity for good or evil. It is up to us to determine what is "good" and what should just be left alone! It is also up to us to teach our children, not only the traditional right from wrong, but also to recognize qualified answers from unqualified answers. However, one should not just dismiss unqualified answers "out of hand". The source may be anonymous, but it could also be true.

The bottom line is, I agree with Shyam that the Internet is not GOD, all-knowing, all-loving, omnipotent and omnipresent. Neither is it the Devil, or Evil Incarnate, to be railed against by the Righteous. After all, Jesus did not say "Money is the root of all evil" as many people quote him, but "the Love of Money (over God and others) is the root of all evil". Money, in this sense, is not just a medium of exchange, but is all forms of material wealth and power. As Paul McCartney wrote, "Money can't buy me Love." And so we have a corollary, "Internet can't provide Truth". Truth must be sought out, examined, confirmed, and sometimes simply believed when the Scientific methods fall short. However the danger with Belief, as opposed to Scientific Truths is that, since there can be many Beliefs, there can be many Truths. That is why the world is such a dangerous place today, too many different Truths that people are willing to kill and die for.

And so we continue, hopefully to keep the Internet as Truthful as possible, especially our little corner here at CR4.

I thank you very much for taking pains to write in details and to the point.

Often there are large number of ordinary (professional) engineers who learn from all sources of compiled knowledge and use it as true bible to guide them all through. Only when something is missing out from book pages, they become fish out of water. I will say that nothing is wrong with them and they are doing a good thing in becoming skilled and using skill and whatever is possible out of it. They can also help others to follow them. They are like true worker ants needed to form a good society.

It is also true that those write books need not read it for themselves. Such people are few and their contribution is always meant for others to use it. This kind of knowledge originates both in educated and uneducated lots. That is the reason that many engineers even though are without degree are still capable in some specific zone. At times their knowledge can be self generated and very valuable for engineers born through book knowledge. Bob Pease, National Semiconductor USA became is one such legend in electronics IC design. He worked from very basics, hand written logics and some using Taguchi Method (Taguchi is a legend in Japan who invented many gas sensors and his sensors are now manufactured by Figaro Japan, is actually rehabilitated man, hardly been to any school or formal education, worked from kitchen items for his research). Bob has a colmn in Electronics Design. I tracked this man for the last 30 years when he was first at Teledyne Philbrick Inc and changed to NS and remained there to be highly creative.

Finding an expert for real help is not an easy talk. I used to write thousands of letters 20 years ago and I was getting good response from friends all over the world. Email does not carry same value. You don't take pains to put stamp and post the letter. There was feeling that your friend should be happy to receive your letter so even stamp desgin needed to look good and care was taken to select one that was the best looking and carried some information.

I am Hindu, where Gita is the guiding factor. It says that whatever path you take is all right and there are many paths and all of them are all right. Do your duty as per your real accepted profession. If you are an armyman then don't fear killing or from getting killed. But you don't have to kill any one, if you are a teacher. There you must learn and teach. Only intermixing professions were restricted and were discredited. You can be a coward teacher but you can not be a coward armyman. Similarly armyman need not be a good teacher at all.

While this forum is a good one. We still feel that forums are often not taken very seriously accept by few people who care for others. One reason could be that the people do not have endless amount of time to concentrate on too many ideas and also do not know how serious the other person is about the questions he asked now. So why to put up serious time for it?

I find that in India, there is hardly any mechanical or electronics engineering these days. Most of the engineers take to software. Few lines of code places them in good highly paid job. Working on material based technology is rather very difficult. Engineers in many developed countries concentrated on hard work and put their hands on material, and build their country. I greatly appreciate that. I work in similar way and have piled up with million dollar electronics items in my private research in order to find everything near me. I think for many in India, it is impossible to do so.

I even watch that junk engineering work on discovery channel, that they can make anything and everything out of junk. I feel they are great engineering artists, fast and professionals. Young people should play with things to discover beauty in engineering work. Unfortunately people look for cheap idea and direct solution which is often out of reach and does not develop knowledge. Our knowledge is actually our experience and reason for being an intelligent being. Without experience, what knowledge can be? Even if you fail in getting the expected results is also a knowledge of facts.

Some very nice comments Shyam. I especially liked your references to Prof. Taguchi and Bob Pease. Taguchi, I am somewhat familiar with the former, having learned the Taguchi Methods (also known as Design of Experiments, or DOE) from the Crosbie Institute of Phillip Crosbie, who, like Taguchi, was a disciple of W. Edwards Demming.

Not being an Electronics Engineer, I was not familiar with Mr. Pease, but will be sure to check into his work now, thanks!

However, your comments regarding the teachings of the Gita were a little off track to me in this day and age and relating to this discussion. Christian ethics are similar in some ways to Hinduism. There are many paths one can take. Many are equally valid, but some lead to righteousness (goodness) and others lead away from righteousness. However, sometimes you have to have balance in your life, more like the Oriental philosophy of Yin and Yang. Jesus was once asked a question by a Jewish scribe (religious lawyer), who was actually trying to trick him, and get him to say something that would either anger his Jewish friends or the Roman occupiers. He was asked whether the Jews of Palestine should pay taxes to their Roman overlords, who were pagans and idol worshippers. Jesus asked whose image was on the Roman coins used to pay the tax. "Caesar's of course" or something like that was the answer from the Jewish Scribe. Jesus answered him, "Then render unto Caesar's what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's!" So there is somewhat of a dichotomy there.

You say that professions should not mix, that one should "Do your duty as per your real accepted profession". There is much truth in that, one should be true to oneself and the path you have chosen, if it is a good one. However, you go on to say "You can be a coward teacher but you can not be a coward armyman. Similarly armyman need not be a good teacher at all." I disagree with this. Taken literally, teachers must be bold and not cowards, else students and administrators will take advantage of them. Students may not listen to their teachers and new ideas may not be given the freedom and attention they deserve. Some teachers must be physically brave to teach in urban classrooms which are prone to violence. Also, today's Soldier, your "Armyman", must also be a teacher, especially as he grows older in his profession, since the senior men are often required to instruct the more junior men. This has long been true in teaching military discipline and tactics and even more so with the increasingly complexity of military technology. This is also true in many other professions. In more general terms, cross-training is an essential part of workplace strategy. I am a better Design Engineer now because earlier in my career I worked as a Manufacturing Engineer. Also, I am a better Engineer because I studied Business in graduate school, earning an MBA degree, and understand better the role that Engineering plays in the business environment and how to interact with other elements of business. If I should choose to go into Marketing, which I studied in Business school, I would probably succeed because my training in Engineering allows me to also be a good problem solver.

Thanks again for your posting.

Perhaps, it is not easy to give full idea in small discussion but this Philosophy is true that you can save you life and by any means and survive if you are in civilian position and you do not lose honor. However, when it comes to an armyman, it is a great honor to give away life in need, as that is professionally accepted idea, It has nothing to do with what you consider as you belief in GOD or even if you have no GOD concept.

If you are good to your family or your family is good to you for many years and if they change their attitude for a day then it hurts more. You never question a bad person as you never have any expectations from bad person and some time you even get surprized, seeing that a bad man doing a good and you don't beleive that to happen. You never trust even if that happens. That is the way we all are.

While we all are human and take jobs for getting funds to survive, but in early times there were many jobs that were not taken for money. Assume that society give you everything otherwise and you have to take a profession only if you wish. Then it will be 100% responsibility to follow the rules. It was something like that. Taking your profession these days, we consider an option. However, professions are by society for itself with rules. This line now is blurring out. Israel now has all military so there is no ordinary men or women there.

I agree that todays you can have lots of freedom but some jobs you expect 100% purity to public. For example your President. What is that you have not given to him and do you not expect him to follow the ethics? Afetr all he is also a man and not a GOD. He might have some how got into popularity and your given power. That is all. After that he is just an ordinary man. Once you give him that supper power then he is no longer an ordinary man as you all stand behind him. He is not himself. You may pardon his evil or bad, but you really never want him to get into that and will rather ask him to spare the place to some one else who can do better. After all you are a nation and not one man and there are others to do the job. You get bad President and you are hurt.

I hope You may know what I meant. In India some saints become killers while people give them place of GOD. They also accept that but do not follow that rule. We feel bad. As human nature in all we should never consider any one above others and we are only taking chances by selecting a best man. But, we also belive that ethics have place in our minds but not in reality. Hence, GITA is ethics and not a reality. I have gone through Bible teachings. I consider Jesus the greatest man who has given his life to set an example. It is not easy to do so. Most of the Indian men considered GOD did the same thing. After they achieved their goals they committed suicide one way or the other to give no extra value to life. For all great men, life is a purpose for which they live. Gandhi lived with just one cotton cloth, one goat for milk and one hut to survive, when he was all educated man. He took serious decision. There were many others who also were like him, not known to the world. These great saints I will say rather than GOD, were highly committed to rules and ethics. We all can do so but it is not easy thing to practice.

I was seeing one African documentary in which young children need to kill their parents. It was shocking to look at. After analyzing the fact I found that it was a great concept. If My son kills me then society will have less non-productive men and sick people and more development can be done young as they have no one to care. Caring for sick means generating a sick society. However, in our current form we prefer to live longer and also care other to do so. It is just against the nature's rules, which kiils the weak and keeps the healthy.

Human civilization has gone through many changes. We may also have different values in time and as per need. We write books for many to follow and those right books do not follow the past rules and make their own.

People either follow other's rules and are like Worker ants or those who make their own rules and are King or Queen ants. All are ants like in any way. It is also great to consider GOD and your place in Godly heaven if that helps you live better in this life.

I like people believing in the GOD but in real sense I do not have the same idea for me.

For me extreme knowdege is GOD and that comes from greater amount of interactions. Perhaps all things that interact may have knowledge and if entire cosmos is interacting as we know it does, then it all is conscious GOD. As we don't care for many living things becoming dead in our own body, and perhaps GOD will have little concern about us.

GOD is perhaps a larger system from which we small being come and go. I have no greater idea about it. I read Vedas and there also it is written that about formation of matter will not be known to living GODs as they came latter from the supper power. Vedas do not claim that everything is known and nothing else to be known hereafter. In fact it says that its only an initial knowledge and now you think further and realize yourself and that is what we all are doing. Vedas were Philosophy discussed and debated and accepted only if it was scientific to all. It had no rules like you can't criticise the book. In fact it says, that you may realize greater truth which is not known to those who have written this but could not reach all knowledge. Perhaps all knowledge is near impossible. We all know that.

I do not spend time on Philosophy now and rather prefer to help those are in need technically to survive in the world. I teach engineers, help new businesses, help my Government, and live happy with my wife and children. I love working with technology and rarely go to temple. By wife and children go and worship For me my work alone is worship. I also some time work in hospital and treat cancer affected people. I was trained by WHO. I spend lots of time on Environmental Research as I have nuclear scientist background of 22 years. I always prefer to talk to young people who are in search of knowledge and are putting first step in life. I want their life full of hope and joy. I know I am only for few years on earth but want these young people to belive that they are forever here.

Nice talking to you on different subjects. I basically love all people on earth. I do not hate even worst kind. I will never like to be worst kind. I want to live simple life and go back and be a part of the zero localized identy Universe once again. I think I am just that.

To keep perspective on computer and internet usage, I try to keep in mind two quotes:

"A computer is nothing but a high speed idiot. It can only do what it is programmed and instructed to do. It can do it many times faster than a human, but it is incapable of independent thought." 1973

"The internet is similar to a bathroom wall. Anybody can post anything, true or false. One needs to use any information from the internet with great care."

In short, the computer and the internet can be good tools, but like any tool it must be used carefully and can cause damage when not used properly. (Similar to a hammer when I bang my thumb on the weekend!)

Well said, Ried. If you can, please post the sources of your quotes. That lends credibility to them.

I am reminded of the scene in the movie PATTON. World War II U.S. General George S. Patton, famed Army commander, on visiting the site of an ancient battlefield, recites a poem to his colleague, Gen. Omar Bradley. He starts it by saying, "The Poet once said...." and then turned to Gen. Bradley after finishing the poem and asked him if he knew who the poet was. Bradley did not know, and Patton exclaimed, "The Poet was ME!" and started laughing.

Always identify your sources! (grin)

My source for the quotes:

First was from a college buddy Rick Heupal, back at NDSU in Fargo, ND, about 30 years ago.

Second is from Eric Zorn, a newspaper columnist that I normally dislike, disagree with, and avoid reading. This was one of the very few times I could agree with him.

I could add a third quote, "Trust, but verify!"

Can we define Internet Information resource in some definite terms.

You can take three different age groups and perhaps different sex and analyze the Internet for them. You can also analyze for some key professionals. This will give an idea of what Internet is for different people.

While it is one resource, it may be good and bad at the same time. It is like a doctor randomly distributing medicine to all thinking that all are smart and filter their medicice as per their need. Is that really true? Or we, don't care about those can't decide and get into trouble using this Internet resource.

If we care about few accidents on the road, few deaths due to bad medical treatment and then we should also care about this paid and likely to be harmful service with all types of Pirates looking to trap others using Internet.

Is it a safe learning place for very young? Can you say yes or no with say 75% confidence? I give that 25% margin for error to play safe.

Is is full knowledge, half knoledge, quarter knowledge, zero knowledge in terms of knowledge and garbage. Give me points 4,3,2, and 1 respectively. 4 means 100% trusted knowledge and zero garbage.

Is an Internet like the crowd on airport, railway station, and road that we can't avoid? We need to go out and we face people again and again. We can't stop them. In same way, we need to use Internet, and we can't stop junk coming in our way. Is that what is Internet now? Why is it run in this way? Is it an accepted norm? By whom? Who controls the Internet and its information? Is there an Internet Interpol? Do people pay penality to place garbage here? If not why? Is it not affecting the environment? Mental environment that makes us different from rest of the creatures on the earth. Is it harming it and no one to pay for it? Is it free for all WWF? What is Internet and why is it in this way? and why so many Government have no control over it? Is it all right to do whatever you like on Internet?

Do I call Internet GOD or Internet DEVIL? I know that there is no one to question it, so it must be some kind of supper power game. Who controls this supper power game and who is that supper power, who is not to be questioned by any one? Why zero accountability?

How come all accept that? It is like accepting GOD. Do you question GOD if he or she does not have rules or break rules. Do you start disliking your GOD for things your GOD may do? I was wondering if there was GOD and GOD had its wishes differently than what we know now and totally against your current belief. It may be shocking but GOD is not your rule so why to expect it that way. Is Internet a GODs power now? As we call GOD that we can't question for its rules.

While the internet may not be the ultimate source for every kind of information.

It is a fine way to see if you are trying to reinvent the wheel.

persuing a reasonable solution, or @ least point towards the real experts.

You still need to be able to filter out the bad info.

It's like doing math with a calculator, you must know about where the decimal point is going to be & how many significant digits there are to know wether the computing device is giving you a result that could be possibly correct.

There is no substitute for time spent in your vocation. Experince counts.

Being involved, caring, passion for the task @ hand, are equally important!

This subject is related to one of your recent threads, about how to motivate students to gain practical expirence.

You are trying to make a positive difference, in the limited time you have.

You see a problem & look for a resource effective solution.

Most anyone can solve a problem, can you solve the problem with what you have on hand? [resources] Can the people who interact with your solution, understand & use it?

Keep up the good work!

Hi Garthh,

Yes, you have a valid point. Internet is best for those who can extract its value for their usefulness. It can be fun for some and perhaps that is the value for them.

For me life itself is research so I do involve myself and other people. Internet is people for me. More Global, much better.

I thought it may ve a right thing to let many know that it is possible to do multiple research at a time and in rather shorter span with valuable resaerch results. Experiments in which I am now involving students and lecturers is very difficult one as these people are from poorest background and I need to push their minds in top gear. They are almost scared of me. However, they put up some time with me and go back to whatever they are doing. None want to touch anything from hand.

I have 10 engineering institutes here and all at different level of teaching background. Hence, some are fast and accept hard work and difficult research, others take it easy and handly want to do anything. Nothing disturbs me. I only change my plans and look for results. Their minds are mving but body is not going along. They have never gained such experience before. They are facing a man who has done almost 1000+ new designs. It also may be shocking to some.

Information alone looks great to me but many others need people around to pull them to engineering battle field. Lots of inertia in some people. I am not sure if other animals have so much difference. They almost look alike.